Jul 30, 2016, 4:21 pm
Last edit by: Slickw
LINK TO CHART
Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.
The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:
The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================
If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.
Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:
"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.
The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:
Originally Posted by Marriott Rewards Insider
Members who purchased a Category 6, Category 8 or Tier 1-3 certificate prior to 8/18 are able to request a one-time exchange for a Travel Package one category lower. This process will cancel your current Travel Package, reissue a Travel Package one category lower and result in a refund of 30,000 points to your account. To submit a request, follow these steps:
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html
- Select “Packages - Deals” from the “Topic” drop down menu
- Submit your request
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html
The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================
If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.
Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:
"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
Marriott Travel Packages
Aug 24, 2018, 11:48 am
#6316
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 55
It seems there is only 30k difference between each category. I have OC5. Will I be able to upgrade it to NC5 or NC6 if I pay 30k or 60k, or even 90k?
Aug 24, 2018, 12:04 pm
#6317
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 50
Aug 24, 2018, 1:06 pm
#6318
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
Oops, my mistake. Corrected below:
Group A
New Cat 1-4 from Old Cat 1-5: QP83 - 45k value
New Cat 5 from Old Cat 7 or upgrading from NC1-4a: QP88 - 105k value
New Cat 6 from Old Cat 9 or upgrading from NC1-4a: QPXX - 165k value
New Cat 7 when upgrading from NC1-4a: QPXX - 225k value
New Cat 8 when upgrading from NC1-4a: QPXX - 285k value
Group B
New Cat 1-4 from Old Cat 6: QP80 - 75k value
New Cat 5 from Old Cat 8 or upgrading from NC1-4b: QPXX - 135k value
New Cat 6 from Old Tier 1-3 or upgrading from NC1-4b: QPXX - 195k value
New Cat 7 when upgrading from NC1-4b: QPXX - 255k value
New Cat 8 when upgrading from NC1-4b: QPXX - 315k value
Group A
New Cat 1-4 from Old Cat 1-5: QP83 - 45k value
New Cat 5 from Old Cat 7 or upgrading from NC1-4a: QP88 - 105k value
New Cat 6 from Old Cat 9 or upgrading from NC1-4a: QPXX - 165k value
New Cat 7 when upgrading from NC1-4a: QPXX - 225k value
New Cat 8 when upgrading from NC1-4a: QPXX - 285k value
Group B
New Cat 1-4 from Old Cat 6: QP80 - 75k value
New Cat 5 from Old Cat 8 or upgrading from NC1-4b: QPXX - 135k value
New Cat 6 from Old Tier 1-3 or upgrading from NC1-4b: QPXX - 195k value
New Cat 7 when upgrading from NC1-4b: QPXX - 255k value
New Cat 8 when upgrading from NC1-4b: QPXX - 315k value
I am assuming OCT5 had 315k residual value, since that wasn't on the list.
It looks like the new certs' 'residual values' are based on something different than incremental package cost starting at 45k. I hesitate to call them 'residual value' because a NC4 is 'worth' 7 nights at a NC4 hotel, or 150k standard rate but semantics aside.
As I understand it that your base package (OC5/NC4) gets you 45k refund (ignoring OC6 downgrades where you get a higher refund value). Subsequent upgrades/downgrades are based on the difference in residual value.
Based on the information Nick has compiled, I have created an upgrade/downgrade chart. Obviously you can't jump back to old once you go to new. I have also included the incremental purchase cost, called 'upgrade' from the base cert, which used to be the same value but not appears to be different, maybe this is just a old floater thing.
A couple takeaways:
1) whatever OC cert you hold, you can get a NC4 and not be ahead or behind on points as if you ordered that in the first place (e.g. OC9 = NC4 + 120k)
2) This is the conversion proposal several people had. I countered that with it not being fair because it was prohibitively expensive to get back to the higher category hotels, assuming the new upgrade cost would be based on the incremental package cost (e.g. upgrade cost = cost of NC6 - cost of NC4 = 180k). As you can see from the table, the upgrade cost is not the based on the purchase cost increment, rather something smaller, which conveniently in my opinion protects MR from positive points downgrading, something FM suggested awhile ago (e.g. OC9->NC6 even exchange, NC6->NC4 downgrade nets 180k, whereas original OC5->OC9 only cost 120k, so you're 60k ahead).
3) Before declaring 'great opportunity', keep in mind the purchase costs are based on 'high' rates, so they are inflated. If a NC cert purchase is allowed to upgrade, and these numbers are correct, one would be points ahead to purchase NC4 and upgrade from there.
4) T5 really got screwed in the conversion, beyond the fact they purchased the highest cert covering all hotels but now can't cover all the hotels. Chart shows they should have gotten NC7 +90k if everything else holds the same.
Perhaps some of the upgrades that were permitted that shouldn't have been. Perhaps upgrades are only permitted on the floater certs. Who knows. Interesting nevertheless and thanks for the data points.
Last edited by zozeppelin; Aug 24, 2018 at 3:28 pm Reason: correcting NC7/8 errors
Aug 24, 2018, 1:42 pm
#6319
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CLT
Programs: Marriott Plat, AA Gold
Posts: 1,076
I just called in and waited 40 minutes on the phone just to be told that they are not allowed to cancel/change any TP until 9/18.
Really bad, my points are now locked on a cat 6 I plan to use for thankgiving trip. Why did they trick us into buying and locking us down like Paypal holding funds.
Really bad, my points are now locked on a cat 6 I plan to use for thankgiving trip. Why did they trick us into buying and locking us down like Paypal holding funds.
Aug 24, 2018, 1:53 pm
#6320
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 31
DP: Called to book my 7 night stay for Cat 1-4 (QP83)45k and was told that they are not allowed to book any TP until 9/18. WOMP WOMP
Aug 24, 2018, 1:54 pm
#6321
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,764
Yes, that is correct. Zero points difference at the end of the day for all those transactions.
Somewhat interestingly, in the first step when they cancelled my OC8 partial I had a 135k points balance (correct since I had 0 before), then after the supervisor ordered me the NC6 for 165k my account showed a -30k balance (I owed Marriott 30k points). I do not know if this is common but it was a bit of a surprise to me to see a negative points balance.
Somewhat interestingly, in the first step when they cancelled my OC8 partial I had a 135k points balance (correct since I had 0 before), then after the supervisor ordered me the NC6 for 165k my account showed a -30k balance (I owed Marriott 30k points). I do not know if this is common but it was a bit of a surprise to me to see a negative points balance.
Another friend suffered serious mistakes made by the rep several weeks pre 8/18. Instead of extending the right cert, the rep extended another cert that was far from expiry. Long story short it took many calls many attempts on how to fix the mistake - during the drawn out process (lasted for several days because additional mistakes were made at each step) his account had a very large negative balance at one point.
Goes to show an audit trail is very important.
Aug 24, 2018, 2:05 pm
#6322
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,764
Many thanks for sifting through the data points and putting this together. I am a little dense sometimes, but if I understand this correctly, there is some discount for upgrading, which I assume was protection put in place for downgrading, let me explain.
I am assuming OCT5 had 315k residual value, since that wasn't on the list.
It looks like the new certs' 'residual values' are based on something different than incremental package cost starting at 45k. I hesitate to call them 'residual value' because a NC4 is 'worth' 7 nights at a NC4 hotel, or 150k standard rate but semantics aside.
As I understand it that your base package (OC5/NC4) gets you 45k refund (ignoring OC6 downgrades where you get a higher refund value). Subsequent upgrades/downgrades are based on the difference in residual value.
Based on the information Nick has compiled, I have created an upgrade/downgrade chart. Obviously you can't jump back to old once you go to new. I have also included the incremental purchase cost, called 'upgrade' from the base cert, which used to be the same value but not appears to be different, maybe this is just a old floater thing.
A couple takeaways:
1) whatever OC cert you hold, you can get a NC4 and not be ahead or behind on points as if you ordered that in the first place (e.g. OC9 = NC4 + 120k)
2) This is the conversion proposal several people had. I countered that with it not being fair because it was prohibitively expensive to get back to the higher category hotels, assuming the new upgrade cost would be based on the incremental package cost (e.g. upgrade cost = cost of NC6 - cost of NC4 = 180k). As you can see from the table, the upgrade cost is not the based on the purchase cost increment, rather something smaller, which conveniently in my opinion protects MR from positive points downgrading, something FM suggested awhile ago (e.g. OC9->NC6 even exchange, NC6->NC4 downgrade nets 180k, whereas original OC5->OC9 only cost 120k, so you're 60k ahead).
3) Before declaring 'great opportunity', keep in mind the purchase costs are based on 'high' rates, so they are inflated. If a NC cert purchase is allowed to upgrade, and these numbers are correct, one would be points ahead to purchase NC4 and upgrade from there.
4) T5 really got screwed in the conversion, beyond the fact they purchased the highest cert coveing all hotels but now can't cover all the hotels. Chart shows they should have gotten NC7 + 60k if everything else holds the same.
Perhaps some of the upgrades that were permitted that shouldn't have been. Perhaps upgrades are only permitted on the floater certs. Who knows. Interesting nevertheless and thanks for the data points.
I am assuming OCT5 had 315k residual value, since that wasn't on the list.
It looks like the new certs' 'residual values' are based on something different than incremental package cost starting at 45k. I hesitate to call them 'residual value' because a NC4 is 'worth' 7 nights at a NC4 hotel, or 150k standard rate but semantics aside.
As I understand it that your base package (OC5/NC4) gets you 45k refund (ignoring OC6 downgrades where you get a higher refund value). Subsequent upgrades/downgrades are based on the difference in residual value.
Based on the information Nick has compiled, I have created an upgrade/downgrade chart. Obviously you can't jump back to old once you go to new. I have also included the incremental purchase cost, called 'upgrade' from the base cert, which used to be the same value but not appears to be different, maybe this is just a old floater thing.
A couple takeaways:
1) whatever OC cert you hold, you can get a NC4 and not be ahead or behind on points as if you ordered that in the first place (e.g. OC9 = NC4 + 120k)
2) This is the conversion proposal several people had. I countered that with it not being fair because it was prohibitively expensive to get back to the higher category hotels, assuming the new upgrade cost would be based on the incremental package cost (e.g. upgrade cost = cost of NC6 - cost of NC4 = 180k). As you can see from the table, the upgrade cost is not the based on the purchase cost increment, rather something smaller, which conveniently in my opinion protects MR from positive points downgrading, something FM suggested awhile ago (e.g. OC9->NC6 even exchange, NC6->NC4 downgrade nets 180k, whereas original OC5->OC9 only cost 120k, so you're 60k ahead).
3) Before declaring 'great opportunity', keep in mind the purchase costs are based on 'high' rates, so they are inflated. If a NC cert purchase is allowed to upgrade, and these numbers are correct, one would be points ahead to purchase NC4 and upgrade from there.
4) T5 really got screwed in the conversion, beyond the fact they purchased the highest cert coveing all hotels but now can't cover all the hotels. Chart shows they should have gotten NC7 + 60k if everything else holds the same.
Perhaps some of the upgrades that were permitted that shouldn't have been. Perhaps upgrades are only permitted on the floater certs. Who knows. Interesting nevertheless and thanks for the data points.
And a supervisor told me to upgrade the NC 1 to 4 that is from an Old Cat 6, with 75K value, the cost is 60K, not 30K as your table shows.
I am sure most of us really appreciate your efforts putting things in an easy to read table, but before we know how the upgrade cost is calculated, we really dont have much to go by. Though it is quite clear to me based on own experiences and the saga of skimthetrees reported, the partial NC5 is valued at 135K, and that is the level to make up to from whatever the bottom level your cert is at. So an OC5 has only 45K value the upgrade is an astonishing 90K, an OC6 has 75K value the upgrade is at 60K. Reason being that Marriott is using the Peak pricing for the New Certs hence the upgrade cost is much higher than the old packages would be.
I wish the above table is close to correct, but I am afraid it isn't.
Aug 24, 2018, 2:09 pm
#6323
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,764
We know the residual value of the Partial OC certs (all certs are partial now because the portion to miles was gone).
We also know the new TP's certs value - with both the airline and the hotel stay components. (IIRC somewhere there are the separate component value tables).
If Marriott allows upgrade, the calculation would be using the hotel component value of the new certs, compare that to the residual value of the old certs, the difference is your upgrade cost. It is not too hard to figure out. The unfortunate thing is, the new cert value is based on the Peak prices, hence the upgrade cost is much more than the old package which is a flat incremental value.
Aug 24, 2018, 2:28 pm
#6324
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 28
My guess is 90K.
We know the residual value of the Partial OC certs (all certs are partial now because the portion to miles was gone).
We also know the new TP's certs value - with both the airline and the hotel stay components. (IIRC somewhere there are the separate component value tables).
If Marriott allows upgrade, the calculation would be using the hotel component value of the new certs, compare that to the residual value of the old certs, the difference is your upgrade cost. It is not too hard to figure out. The unfortunate thing is, the new cert value is based on the Peak prices, hence the upgrade cost is much more than the old package which is a flat incremental value.
We know the residual value of the Partial OC certs (all certs are partial now because the portion to miles was gone).
We also know the new TP's certs value - with both the airline and the hotel stay components. (IIRC somewhere there are the separate component value tables).
If Marriott allows upgrade, the calculation would be using the hotel component value of the new certs, compare that to the residual value of the old certs, the difference is your upgrade cost. It is not too hard to figure out. The unfortunate thing is, the new cert value is based on the Peak prices, hence the upgrade cost is much more than the old package which is a flat incremental value.
It doesn't appear to work this way. Marriott seems to have constructed a table where OC1-5 and OC6 both get you to NC1-4 and can then be upgraded in flat 60k increments. They are still based on peak prices but the logic is still the same.
Aug 24, 2018, 2:31 pm
#6325
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 28
Not sure what you mean OCT5 - if this means the Old Cat 1 to 5 (270K to redeem for the max miles), the residual value is 45K only.
And a supervisor told me to upgrade the NC 1 to 4 that is from an Old Cat 6, with 75K value, the cost is 60K, not 30K as your table shows.
I am sure most of us really appreciate your efforts putting things in an easy to read table, but before we know how the upgrade cost is calculated, we really dont have much to go by. Though it is quite clear to me based on own experiences and the saga of skimthetrees reported, the partial NC5 is valued at 135K, and that is the level to make up to from whatever the bottom level your cert is at. So an OC5 has only 45K value the upgrade is an astonishing 90K, an OC6 has 75K value the upgrade is at 60K. Reason being that Marriott is using the Peak pricing for the New Certs hence the upgrade cost is much higher than the old packages would be.
I wish the above table is close to correct, but I am afraid it isn't.
And a supervisor told me to upgrade the NC 1 to 4 that is from an Old Cat 6, with 75K value, the cost is 60K, not 30K as your table shows.
I am sure most of us really appreciate your efforts putting things in an easy to read table, but before we know how the upgrade cost is calculated, we really dont have much to go by. Though it is quite clear to me based on own experiences and the saga of skimthetrees reported, the partial NC5 is valued at 135K, and that is the level to make up to from whatever the bottom level your cert is at. So an OC5 has only 45K value the upgrade is an astonishing 90K, an OC6 has 75K value the upgrade is at 60K. Reason being that Marriott is using the Peak pricing for the New Certs hence the upgrade cost is much higher than the old packages would be.
I wish the above table is close to correct, but I am afraid it isn't.
That would explain all the weird rates and confusion too
Aug 24, 2018, 2:33 pm
#6326
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 28
Many thanks for sifting through the data points and putting this together. I am a little dense sometimes, but if I understand this correctly, there is some discount for upgrading, which I assume was protection put in place for downgrading, let me explain.
I am assuming OCT5 had 315k residual value, since that wasn't on the list.
It looks like the new certs' 'residual values' are based on something different than incremental package cost starting at 45k. I hesitate to call them 'residual value' because a NC4 is 'worth' 7 nights at a NC4 hotel, or 150k standard rate but semantics aside.
As I understand it that your base package (OC5/NC4) gets you 45k refund (ignoring OC6 downgrades where you get a higher refund value). Subsequent upgrades/downgrades are based on the difference in residual value.
Based on the information Nick has compiled, I have created an upgrade/downgrade chart. Obviously you can't jump back to old once you go to new. I have also included the incremental purchase cost, called 'upgrade' from the base cert, which used to be the same value but not appears to be different, maybe this is just a old floater thing.
A couple takeaways:
1) whatever OC cert you hold, you can get a NC4 and not be ahead or behind on points as if you ordered that in the first place (e.g. OC9 = NC4 + 120k)
2) This is the conversion proposal several people had. I countered that with it not being fair because it was prohibitively expensive to get back to the higher category hotels, assuming the new upgrade cost would be based on the incremental package cost (e.g. upgrade cost = cost of NC6 - cost of NC4 = 180k). As you can see from the table, the upgrade cost is not the based on the purchase cost increment, rather something smaller, which conveniently in my opinion protects MR from positive points downgrading, something FM suggested awhile ago (e.g. OC9->NC6 even exchange, NC6->NC4 downgrade nets 180k, whereas original OC5->OC9 only cost 120k, so you're 60k ahead).
3) Before declaring 'great opportunity', keep in mind the purchase costs are based on 'high' rates, so they are inflated. If a NC cert purchase is allowed to upgrade, and these numbers are correct, one would be points ahead to purchase NC4 and upgrade from there.
4) T5 really got screwed in the conversion, beyond the fact they purchased the highest cert coveing all hotels but now can't cover all the hotels. Chart shows they should have gotten NC7 + 60k if everything else holds the same.
Perhaps some of the upgrades that were permitted that shouldn't have been. Perhaps upgrades are only permitted on the floater certs. Who knows. Interesting nevertheless and thanks for the data points.
I am assuming OCT5 had 315k residual value, since that wasn't on the list.
It looks like the new certs' 'residual values' are based on something different than incremental package cost starting at 45k. I hesitate to call them 'residual value' because a NC4 is 'worth' 7 nights at a NC4 hotel, or 150k standard rate but semantics aside.
As I understand it that your base package (OC5/NC4) gets you 45k refund (ignoring OC6 downgrades where you get a higher refund value). Subsequent upgrades/downgrades are based on the difference in residual value.
Based on the information Nick has compiled, I have created an upgrade/downgrade chart. Obviously you can't jump back to old once you go to new. I have also included the incremental purchase cost, called 'upgrade' from the base cert, which used to be the same value but not appears to be different, maybe this is just a old floater thing.
A couple takeaways:
1) whatever OC cert you hold, you can get a NC4 and not be ahead or behind on points as if you ordered that in the first place (e.g. OC9 = NC4 + 120k)
2) This is the conversion proposal several people had. I countered that with it not being fair because it was prohibitively expensive to get back to the higher category hotels, assuming the new upgrade cost would be based on the incremental package cost (e.g. upgrade cost = cost of NC6 - cost of NC4 = 180k). As you can see from the table, the upgrade cost is not the based on the purchase cost increment, rather something smaller, which conveniently in my opinion protects MR from positive points downgrading, something FM suggested awhile ago (e.g. OC9->NC6 even exchange, NC6->NC4 downgrade nets 180k, whereas original OC5->OC9 only cost 120k, so you're 60k ahead).
3) Before declaring 'great opportunity', keep in mind the purchase costs are based on 'high' rates, so they are inflated. If a NC cert purchase is allowed to upgrade, and these numbers are correct, one would be points ahead to purchase NC4 and upgrade from there.
4) T5 really got screwed in the conversion, beyond the fact they purchased the highest cert coveing all hotels but now can't cover all the hotels. Chart shows they should have gotten NC7 + 60k if everything else holds the same.
Perhaps some of the upgrades that were permitted that shouldn't have been. Perhaps upgrades are only permitted on the floater certs. Who knows. Interesting nevertheless and thanks for the data points.
Aug 24, 2018, 2:50 pm
#6327
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
Not sure what you mean OCT5 - if this means the Old Cat 1 to 5 (270K to redeem for the max miles), the residual value is 45K only.
And a supervisor told me to upgrade the NC 1 to 4 that is from an Old Cat 6, with 75K value, the cost is 60K, not 30K as your table shows.
I am sure most of us really appreciate your efforts putting things in an easy to read table, but before we know how the upgrade cost is calculated, we really dont have much to go by. Though it is quite clear to me based on own experiences and the saga of skimthetrees reported, the partial NC5 is valued at 135K, and that is the level to make up to from whatever the bottom level your cert is at. So an OC5 has only 45K value the upgrade is an astonishing 90K, an OC6 has 75K value the upgrade is at 60K. Reason being that Marriott is using the Peak pricing for the New Certs hence the upgrade cost is much higher than the old packages would be.
I wish the above table is close to correct, but I am afraid it isn't.
And a supervisor told me to upgrade the NC 1 to 4 that is from an Old Cat 6, with 75K value, the cost is 60K, not 30K as your table shows.
I am sure most of us really appreciate your efforts putting things in an easy to read table, but before we know how the upgrade cost is calculated, we really dont have much to go by. Though it is quite clear to me based on own experiences and the saga of skimthetrees reported, the partial NC5 is valued at 135K, and that is the level to make up to from whatever the bottom level your cert is at. So an OC5 has only 45K value the upgrade is an astonishing 90K, an OC6 has 75K value the upgrade is at 60K. Reason being that Marriott is using the Peak pricing for the New Certs hence the upgrade cost is much higher than the old packages would be.
I wish the above table is close to correct, but I am afraid it isn't.
I have no first hand knowledge, just compiling the few data points to date. It is a neat way to handle the conversion mess, by having multiple levels for a new category. For instance, if you have an OC5, now you have a NC4-45. If you had an OC6, you now have a NC4-75, and so on. So you can effectively jump around according to the point value attached to your converted cert, according to the other cert values. This of course is based on Nick's one data point, but it makes sense of a process standpoint - something that frontline CS agents could manage (e.g. Old Cat to New Cat+MR table, followed by using the points difference to easily calculate cost of moving your remaped cert around) and creates a mechanism to differentiate the OC5 and OC6 to NC4 converted certs, and so on.
Skimthetrees reported NC5-135 because he started with an OC8 (which I guess could be pronounced OC8-135 for clarity). If he converted from OC7-105, it would be NC5-105, which would take 60k to get from NC4-45, or 30k from NC4-75 (which is a OC6-75 mapped cert).
Hopefully the datapoints are correct for values, method, and capability to move around. At least a 1 time adjustment should be reasonable.
Aug 24, 2018, 2:52 pm
#6328
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Programs: MB-LTT , HH-Diam., HGP-Expl.
Posts: 778
I believe he or she meant Old Category Tier 4-5 which would explain the question about a 315K liquidation value.
Although I have always fully utilized every package and expect to do so with my current holdings, if I owned an OC T1-5, I would probably cancel it if a downgrade wasn't available. While the top Category is still a Cat 7, 315K is enough for 6 nights at a top tier hotel with 15K in points left over. A 5-night stay for 240K, a 1-night stay for 60K and 15K might be a better fit for some than a 7-night NC 7 package. Alternatively, I rather have 315K in points than a 7-night package with a 60K/night at standard rates package.
Although I have always fully utilized every package and expect to do so with my current holdings, if I owned an OC T1-5, I would probably cancel it if a downgrade wasn't available. While the top Category is still a Cat 7, 315K is enough for 6 nights at a top tier hotel with 15K in points left over. A 5-night stay for 240K, a 1-night stay for 60K and 15K might be a better fit for some than a 7-night NC 7 package. Alternatively, I rather have 315K in points than a 7-night package with a 60K/night at standard rates package.
Aug 24, 2018, 3:02 pm
#6329
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
If you actually believe any of this, then you really should focus on Hilton or Hyatt. Seriously: it is 100% what I would do if I genuinely felt that Marriott was evil to the core. I'd switch to Hilton and not think twice about it.
And they have instant Diamond status for a credit card they pay you to carry. They have a global footprint that is reasonably comparable to Marriott. The give Diamonds the same nonupgrades that Marriott gives Platinums. It won't even be painful for you.
And they have instant Diamond status for a credit card they pay you to carry. They have a global footprint that is reasonably comparable to Marriott. The give Diamonds the same nonupgrades that Marriott gives Platinums. It won't even be painful for you.
Marriott’s not rotten to the core, but it’s greedy and incompetent in a way that deserves lots of criticism if only to try to retard the spread of the anti-customer infection spreading as fast and as awfully as happens when customers done wrong simply “shut up and move on”.
Aug 24, 2018, 3:18 pm
#6330
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
OCT5 = 540k. OC5 = 270k. Old Upgrade Cost = New Purchase Incremental Cost = OCT5-OC5 = 270k
NC7 = 570k. NC4 = 330k. New Purchase Incremental Cost = 240k.
But it appears they aren't handled liked that. From the datapoint:
NC7-225 and NC4-45, one could upgrade for 180k.
So that is where the -90k is coming from (originally had 60k, T5 owners should get 90k back for NC7 if formula holds ; e.g. they have NC7-315 but only need NC7-225).
NC8 = 420k NC4 = 300k. New Purchase Incremental Cost = 420k.
NC8-285 - NC5-45 = 240k upgrade cost. Originally paid 270k incremental over OC5.
Technically speaking, T5-315 should be able to upgrade at a negative cost to NC8-285.
So I'm guessing NC7/8 are bad. See the example for OC8-135 went to NC4-105? That could have been convoluted to mean NC4 'values' at 105, which we know it doesn't, 'values' at 45k, an overpayment. Conversely someone could have wrongly gotten a NC7/8 at lower price than required and be in debit. To make the mapping math work, NC7-315 should be the min NC7 value. NC8 who knows.