Jul 30, 2016, 4:21 pm
Last edit by: Slickw
LINK TO CHART
Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.
The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:
The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================
If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.
Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:
"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.
The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:
Originally Posted by Marriott Rewards Insider
Members who purchased a Category 6, Category 8 or Tier 1-3 certificate prior to 8/18 are able to request a one-time exchange for a Travel Package one category lower. This process will cancel your current Travel Package, reissue a Travel Package one category lower and result in a refund of 30,000 points to your account. To submit a request, follow these steps:
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html
- Select “Packages - Deals” from the “Topic” drop down menu
- Submit your request
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html
The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================
If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.
Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:
"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
Marriott Travel Packages
Aug 23, 2018, 3:00 pm
#6241
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,763
Skimthetrees went from an old Cat 8 to a new Cat 1-4 and got back 90K. In his example, the cost of an old Cat 1-5 would need to equal the cost of a new Cat 1-4 for the differential to be 90K. Old Cat 8 = Old Cat 1-5 + 90K = New Cat 1-4 + 90K. Alternatively, he was refunded 135K for the old Cat 8 and charged 45K for the new Cat 1-4. - old Cat 8 + new Cat 1-4 = -135K +45K = -90K.
I used the difference in price between a new Cat 5 and a new Cat 1-4 which is 10K/night or 60K for 7 nights. I knew that you were charged more than that. Since you can see how I arrived at my conclusion, do you believe it is more likely that I miscalculated or you were overcharged?
I used the difference in price between a new Cat 5 and a new Cat 1-4 which is 10K/night or 60K for 7 nights. I knew that you were charged more than that. Since you can see how I arrived at my conclusion, do you believe it is more likely that I miscalculated or you were overcharged?
Just how he got his refund / rebook / refund again / rebook again, is irrelevant. They are just movements that change his account balance.
The relevant part is the 135K value is attached to his Cat 5, AND is the same value the supervisor told me should I upgrade my QP80 with 75K pts to the NC5, I need to pay the difference of 60K.
I have not done an upgrade. But it is the cost I am told.
My conclusion is, a Partial NC5 has 135K value, and that is the base (or the level you need to reach) to use should you upgrade from a partial OC1-5 (45K), or an OC6 (75K). It is quite clear to me now because there are 2 DPs to confirm the Partial NC5 point value.
Therefore the poster who was only charged 56K from his 45K worth partial OC5, has had a bargain and should just take the stay.
I also agree with skimthetrees theory of the audit trail now every cert has a point value attached, versus just being denoted by a code. That would be the case until all the legacy certs are converted, manually. That is why it takes a month's lock down to do it. System simply could not be programmed to accommodate so many variations, nor worth to spend the resources to write the program to cover all complications,
Last edited by Happy; Aug 23, 2018 at 3:14 pm
Aug 23, 2018, 3:06 pm
#6242
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,763
Yes, they cancelled the QP99 (points refunded) and issued the new QP84 then cancelled the QP84 (points refunded) and issued the new QP88. So, yes, it has been proven multiple times to me that they can cancel one of the QP packages (partial package NC certs based on the old pre 8/18 chart?) and once cancelled the points automatically refund.
What I am not sure of is whether the actual new travel package certs, that is to say the certs obtained when purchasing a new travel package after 8/18, are refundable. It is possible the new NC certs carry a different code and are handled differently. I would be surprised if they were because that would remove the points audit trail. The way they have it set up for the QP packages is every package has a points cost that gets deducted when you purchase the package and when the package is cancelled the points value associated with the package is refunded. Every step in the process has a logged activity in my account and the reps can use that audit trail to verify that everything was done properly. If you were able to cancel and there was no points refund then in order to fix a Marriott caused problem related to that they would have to allows reps to credit points to your account to fix the problem. Once reps have the authority to issue points there is a large possibility that points will be mistakenly awarded which would be bad for Marriott which is why I feel they have setup the system the way they have. All certs have a points value and when the cert is cancelled you get the points value refunded. The only other way I could see them playing it is to not allow cancellations at all. They may decide to do that for certs issued to the new post 8/18 packages and I think there has been some posts claiming that is they way they will handle the certs from new full packages purchased post 8/18 but we have no data points on those yet. For the pre 8/18 certs converted to new partial package NC certs it is clear that they can be cancelled and when they are cancelled the points value attached to the cert will be refunded.
What I am not sure of is whether the actual new travel package certs, that is to say the certs obtained when purchasing a new travel package after 8/18, are refundable. It is possible the new NC certs carry a different code and are handled differently. I would be surprised if they were because that would remove the points audit trail. The way they have it set up for the QP packages is every package has a points cost that gets deducted when you purchase the package and when the package is cancelled the points value associated with the package is refunded. Every step in the process has a logged activity in my account and the reps can use that audit trail to verify that everything was done properly. If you were able to cancel and there was no points refund then in order to fix a Marriott caused problem related to that they would have to allows reps to credit points to your account to fix the problem. Once reps have the authority to issue points there is a large possibility that points will be mistakenly awarded which would be bad for Marriott which is why I feel they have setup the system the way they have. All certs have a points value and when the cert is cancelled you get the points value refunded. The only other way I could see them playing it is to not allow cancellations at all. They may decide to do that for certs issued to the new post 8/18 packages and I think there has been some posts claiming that is they way they will handle the certs from new full packages purchased post 8/18 but we have no data points on those yet. For the pre 8/18 certs converted to new partial package NC certs it is clear that they can be cancelled and when they are cancelled the points value attached to the cert will be refunded.
Agree on the Audit Trail need - that now every cert has a specific point value attached to it. Based on the conversation with the supervisor. the point value seems to be "entered" by the rep, based on the table(s) they use. The supervisor kept telling me, "I am putting back 75K pts to your cert." when she helped me on Sunday.
Aug 23, 2018, 3:13 pm
#6243
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Programs: MB-LTT , HH-Diam., HGP-Expl.
Posts: 778
Ignore the history of his saga as it would only create more confusion on the math. Just focus on his NC5 confirmation - it clearly says 135K pts attached.
Just how he got his refund / rebook / refund again / rebook again, is irrelevant.
The relevant part is the 135K value is attached to his Cat 5, AND is the same value the supervisor told me should I upgrade my QP80 with 75K pts to the NC5, I need to pay the difference of 60K.
I have not done an upgrade. But it is the cost I am told.
Just how he got his refund / rebook / refund again / rebook again, is irrelevant.
The relevant part is the 135K value is attached to his Cat 5, AND is the same value the supervisor told me should I upgrade my QP80 with 75K pts to the NC5, I need to pay the difference of 60K.
I have not done an upgrade. But it is the cost I am told.
We have been told that an old Cat 1-5 is equal to a new Cat 1-4. Therefore, going from an old Cat 1-5 to a new Cat 1-4 should cost 0 points. Since the differential between a new Cat 1-4 and a new Cat 5 is 60K, the total cost should be 60K. 0 + 60K =60K. I am only looking at the relative value of each, which doesn't necessarily equal the price that a transaction might take place. If someone is told it will cost 90K and a customer is willing to pay that amount, it's their decision.
Last edited by rny321; Aug 23, 2018 at 3:21 pm
Aug 23, 2018, 3:18 pm
#6244
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,763
I was looking at the differential in cost between 6 nights of new Cat 4 and 6 nights of new Cat 5 which is 60K. That is also the difference in the cost of those travel packages. If NC5 = 135K and NC4 is 75K or 105K and 45K, the difference is still 60K.
We have been told that an old Cat 1-5 is equal to a new Cat 1-4. Therefore, a going from an old Cat 1-5 to a new Cat 5 is a difference in value of 60K. If someone is told it will cost 90K and a customer is willing to pay that amount, it's their decision.
We have been told that an old Cat 1-5 is equal to a new Cat 1-4. Therefore, a going from an old Cat 1-5 to a new Cat 5 is a difference in value of 60K. If someone is told it will cost 90K and a customer is willing to pay that amount, it's their decision.
NC4 from OC1-5 is 45K.
NC4 from OC6 is 75K.
When one upgrades from NC4 to NC5, the calculation is based on how many points are attached to your NC4 which is different depending on what OC your NC4 is converted from.
it has also become clearer now that the codes no longer are nicely aligned, (again see skimthetrees examples), as well as now the certs have specific point value attached even they may all call an NC4. Since whenever the partial NC is canceled, the attached point value would automatically refunded, this makes sense why the point value carries more meaning than just the codes.
Aug 23, 2018, 3:29 pm
#6245
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 787
I've missed a lot of this, but it sounds like someone managed to upgrade??
Aug 23, 2018, 3:42 pm
#6246
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Programs: MB-LTT , HH-Diam., HGP-Expl.
Posts: 778
NC5 is 135K.
NC4 from OC1-5 is 45K.
NC4 from OC6 is 75K.
When one upgrades from NC4 to NC5, the calculation is based on how many points are attached to your NC4 which is different depending on what OC your NC4 is converted from.
it has also become clearer now that the codes no longer are nicely aligned, (again see skimthetrees examples), as well as now the certs have specific point value attached even they may all call an NC4. Since whenever the partial NC is canceled, the attached point value would automatically refunded, this makes sense why the point value carries more meaning than just the codes.
NC4 from OC1-5 is 45K.
NC4 from OC6 is 75K.
When one upgrades from NC4 to NC5, the calculation is based on how many points are attached to your NC4 which is different depending on what OC your NC4 is converted from.
it has also become clearer now that the codes no longer are nicely aligned, (again see skimthetrees examples), as well as now the certs have specific point value attached even they may all call an NC4. Since whenever the partial NC is canceled, the attached point value would automatically refunded, this makes sense why the point value carries more meaning than just the codes.
Last edited by rny321; Aug 23, 2018 at 4:30 pm
Aug 23, 2018, 3:59 pm
#6247
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium, UA Silver, Hertz 5*
Posts: 913
The conversion chart that they published mapped OC1-5 and OC6 to NC5 which can be used for both standard, peak and off-peak and the maximum value of that cert would be based on spending 30K/night.
The chart published by Marriott earlier stated that OC1-5 would map to a NC4 with the ability to book during peak dates as well. The functional value of the old cert was retained and resulted in the holder getting an effective 30K (5K/night) bump in value if s/he chose to use the cert during a peak period. If they redeemed for a stay during standard, they get what they paid for and lose 30K (5K/night) if they redeem for an off-peak date.
A person holding the OC6 Cert would get the value of his/her points only if they now booked a NC4 stay during a peak period. They'd lose 30K in the event of a stay during standard and 60K if they stayed during off-peak. Hopefully the 30K refund for these folks would help alleviate some of that.
Last edited by crazyhorse; Aug 23, 2018 at 4:04 pm
Aug 23, 2018, 4:18 pm
#6248
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,763
By now, nothing would be surprised any more as the mess has so far proved that there is no worst just it keeps getting worse (without end in sight).
Aug 23, 2018, 4:21 pm
#6249
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,763
The New Category Certs are based on the peak pricing. in other words NC4, NC5, etc can be used similar to how the old category certs were being used - for all hotels in that category and for all days. They did not produce 3 Certs for each category (NC4-OffPeak, NC4-Standard and NC4-Peak and so on) since doing so would likely have been a lot more additional coding effort. Going forward (2019 onward), one would be leaving significant value on the table if you happen to redeem for a TP and use the hotel cert during a standard or off-peak period.
The conversion chart that they published mapped OC1-5 and OC6 to NC5 which can be used for both standard, peak and off-peak and the maximum value of that cert would be based on spending 30K/night.
The chart published by Marriott earlier stated that OC1-5 would map to a NC4 with the ability to book during peak dates as well. The functional value of the old cert was retained and resulted in the holder getting an effective 30K (5K/night) bump in value if s/he chose to use the cert during a peak period. If they redeemed for a stay during standard, they get what they paid for and lose 30K (5K/night) if they redeem for an off-peak date.
A person holding the OC6 Cert would get the value of his/her points only if they now booked a NC4 stay during a peak period. They'd lose 30K in the event of a stay during standard and 60K if they stayed during off-peak. Hopefully the 30K refund for these folks would help alleviate some of that.
The conversion chart that they published mapped OC1-5 and OC6 to NC5 which can be used for both standard, peak and off-peak and the maximum value of that cert would be based on spending 30K/night.
The chart published by Marriott earlier stated that OC1-5 would map to a NC4 with the ability to book during peak dates as well. The functional value of the old cert was retained and resulted in the holder getting an effective 30K (5K/night) bump in value if s/he chose to use the cert during a peak period. If they redeemed for a stay during standard, they get what they paid for and lose 30K (5K/night) if they redeem for an off-peak date.
A person holding the OC6 Cert would get the value of his/her points only if they now booked a NC4 stay during a peak period. They'd lose 30K in the event of a stay during standard and 60K if they stayed during off-peak. Hopefully the 30K refund for these folks would help alleviate some of that.
For the remaining of 2018, everyone uses the cert regardless what category s/he has, are losing - because the Off Peak / Peak price do not come in effect until early 2019 that Marriott has never announced a firm starting date for it.
But my point is not for the 30K/night stuff. My point is, in the case of upgrade, how many extra points are required, is based on the difference of the level of points on the category upgraded to, and the point value attached to your existing, converted cert that has point value attached to.
Precisely like you said, the category value is based on the Peak price, and that is the NC5 shown being 135K pts on skimthetrees confirmation email, AND being verbally told me by a supervisor. So to calculate the needed points to upgrade, 135K is used to subtract the NC4 which have different point value as well as different CODEs attached. The 45K NC4 the Code is QP83, The 75K NC4 the Code is QP80 - I gather the different QP codes together with the SPECIFIC point value noted to the Certs, do mean something? in particular, used for upgrade, or, being the points refunded should the holder choose a refund ?
It has proven both yesterday and today that a partial NC from the OC IS refundable and the point value attached to it, indeed means the value would be automatically refunded to the holder's account. Therefore, I believe when upgrade is allowed, it would be based on the SAME concept - you pay the difference between the point value of your existing cert and the level of the points required on the category upgraded to.
There is no need to make it complicated of the 3 point levels, nor the per day's point requirement x 6 days. Just go with the table and the value attached to the existing cert, Get the difference, that is the cost to upgrade - that was what the supervisor told me after she looked up the Partial NC table for the value of each category of the Partial NC,
Last edited by Happy; Aug 23, 2018 at 4:33 pm
Aug 23, 2018, 4:23 pm
#6250
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
The New Category Certs are based on the peak pricing. in other words NC4, NC5, etc can be used similar to how the old category certs were being used - for all hotels in that category and for all days. They did not produce 3 Certs for each category (NC4-OffPeak, NC4-Standard and NC4-Peak and so on) since doing so would likely have been a lot more additional coding effort. Going forward (2019 onward), one would be leaving significant value on the table if you happen to redeem for a TP and use the hotel cert during a standard or off-peak period.
The conversion chart that they published mapped OC1-5 and OC6 to NC5 which can be used for both standard, peak and off-peak and the maximum value of that cert would be based on spending 30K/night.
The chart published by Marriott earlier stated that OC1-5 would map to a NC4 with the ability to book during peak dates as well. The functional value of the old cert was retained and resulted in the holder getting an effective 30K (5K/night) bump in value if s/he chose to use the cert during a peak period. If they redeemed for a stay during standard, they get what they paid for and lose 30K (5K/night) if they redeem for an off-peak date.
A person holding the OC6 Cert would get the value of his/her points only if they now booked a NC4 stay during a peak period. They'd lose 30K in the event of a stay during standard and 60K if they stayed during off-peak. Hopefully the 30K refund for these folks would help alleviate some of that.
The conversion chart that they published mapped OC1-5 and OC6 to NC5 which can be used for both standard, peak and off-peak and the maximum value of that cert would be based on spending 30K/night.
The chart published by Marriott earlier stated that OC1-5 would map to a NC4 with the ability to book during peak dates as well. The functional value of the old cert was retained and resulted in the holder getting an effective 30K (5K/night) bump in value if s/he chose to use the cert during a peak period. If they redeemed for a stay during standard, they get what they paid for and lose 30K (5K/night) if they redeem for an off-peak date.
A person holding the OC6 Cert would get the value of his/her points only if they now booked a NC4 stay during a peak period. They'd lose 30K in the event of a stay during standard and 60K if they stayed during off-peak. Hopefully the 30K refund for these folks would help alleviate some of that.
Aug 23, 2018, 4:46 pm
#6251
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Programs: MB-LTT , HH-Diam., HGP-Expl.
Posts: 778
I believe when the new TP chart was first introduced, there were some calculations to show that it actually costs MORE to use the 7 night cert for hotel stay than if you just use straight point redemption, and the incremental between categories do not make any sense.
By now, nothing would be surprised any more as the mess has so far proved that there is no worst just it keeps getting worse (without end in sight).
By now, nothing would be surprised any more as the mess has so far proved that there is no worst just it keeps getting worse (without end in sight).
Aug 23, 2018, 5:17 pm
#6252
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 61
Quick advice?
Quick question, I booked 7 night category 1-5 certificate for a category 5 property that is now a category 3…. Yes a lousy 3! Do not necessarily need to keep the reservation, I'd rather use it for something more valuable. What do you suggest, will I have luck trying to move the certificate to another reservation? I have additional points I can use to upgrade… has anyone had any success with this? Any ideas??
Aug 23, 2018, 5:18 pm
#6253
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chicago
Posts: 319
I had a category 8 certificate attached to a reservation for later this month that I needed to cancel. After 3 calls and 4 hours on the phone, I finally found a supervisor who was able to cancel the reservation and add a new category 5 partial certificate to my account. The code for the category 5 partial is QP95 in case anyone is interested.
Aug 23, 2018, 5:19 pm
#6254
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 590
Does anyone know if there is a way for me to cancel my Tier 1-3 cert and get the 195k points that are owed to me?
Aug 23, 2018, 5:21 pm
#6255
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 211
I had a category 8 certificate attached to a reservation for later this month that I needed to cancel. After 3 calls and 4 hours on the phone, I finally found a supervisor who was able to cancel the reservation and add a new category 5 partial certificate to my account. The code for the category 5 partial is QP95 in case anyone is interested.
Also did you managed to get the 30k refund as a result of these actions?