Developing a System
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: CT
Posts: 50
Developing a System
Well, we sure are a merry bunch of piranhas! I have read many threads in depth and have benefitted greatly from so many contributors. Thank you FT and thank you for the input of so many contributors!
There are still some things that escape me though. We come in many shapes and sizes - age, financial profile, experience, household size, etc. I am trying to develop an efficient, adaptable system that can cut across these parameters.
So here are a few of my questions:
What percentage of MS seems sustainable relative to annual income and relative to credit limit?
Within the spending on one card, what percentage of real versus manufactured spending seems sustainable?
How many cards do you MS on simultaneously?
Do you max out your spending to annual income ratio with several issuing banks simultaneously?
I know we all have different comfort levels. I am curious to see what has worked.
There are still some things that escape me though. We come in many shapes and sizes - age, financial profile, experience, household size, etc. I am trying to develop an efficient, adaptable system that can cut across these parameters.
So here are a few of my questions:
What percentage of MS seems sustainable relative to annual income and relative to credit limit?
Within the spending on one card, what percentage of real versus manufactured spending seems sustainable?
How many cards do you MS on simultaneously?
Do you max out your spending to annual income ratio with several issuing banks simultaneously?
I know we all have different comfort levels. I am curious to see what has worked.
#2
Join Date: May 2013
Location: AZ
Programs: AA, UA, US
Posts: 525
Well, we sure are a merry bunch of piranhas! I have read many threads in depth and have benefitted greatly from so many contributors. Thank you FT and thank you for the input of so many contributors!
There are still some things that escape me though. We come in many shapes and sizes - age, financial profile, experience, household size, etc. I am trying to develop an efficient, adaptable system that can cut across these parameters.
So here are a few of my questions:
What percentage of MS seems sustainable relative to annual income and relative to credit limit?
Within the spending on one card, what percentage of real versus manufactured spending seems sustainable?
How many cards do you MS on simultaneously?
Do you max out your spending to annual income ratio with several issuing banks simultaneously?
I know we all have different comfort levels. I am curious to see what has worked.
There are still some things that escape me though. We come in many shapes and sizes - age, financial profile, experience, household size, etc. I am trying to develop an efficient, adaptable system that can cut across these parameters.
So here are a few of my questions:
What percentage of MS seems sustainable relative to annual income and relative to credit limit?
Within the spending on one card, what percentage of real versus manufactured spending seems sustainable?
How many cards do you MS on simultaneously?
Do you max out your spending to annual income ratio with several issuing banks simultaneously?
I know we all have different comfort levels. I am curious to see what has worked.
1 - 90-100% on 2 cards
2 - 90% ms
3 - 2-3
4 - yes
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: CT
Posts: 50
I agree that certain ways of spending may raise less flags. I also think that being able to defend your spending is important, should you be called upon to do so. Those are topics I think could be further explored.
Much of what read here, though involves spending with no context. Someone saying they did 50k last week sounds exciting, but it could have come from business spending, reimbursable employee expenses, or they could have a substantial personal income.
I'm just trying to find ways to level the field.
Much of what read here, though involves spending with no context. Someone saying they did 50k last week sounds exciting, but it could have come from business spending, reimbursable employee expenses, or they could have a substantial personal income.
I'm just trying to find ways to level the field.
#5
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WAS
Programs: SPG Plat. Marriott Plat. Hilton Diamond. Hyatt Diamond. IHG Plat.
Posts: 2,580
I agree that certain ways of spending may raise less flags. I also think that being able to defend your spending is important, should you be called upon to do so. Those are topics I think could be further explored.
Much of what read here, though involves spending with no context. Someone saying they did 50k last week sounds exciting, but it could have come from business spending, reimbursable employee expenses, or they could have a substantial personal income.
I'm just trying to find ways to level the field.
Much of what read here, though involves spending with no context. Someone saying they did 50k last week sounds exciting, but it could have come from business spending, reimbursable employee expenses, or they could have a substantial personal income.
I'm just trying to find ways to level the field.
Start small and build your way up. Just because you see someone doing 25-50K in MS doesn't mean you'll be doing that.
Also, if you don't have the means or the tolerance for the types of risk you're going to make, then this game isn't for you.
#6
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 542
I agree that certain ways of spending may raise less flags. I also think that being able to defend your spending is important, should you be called upon to do so. Those are topics I think could be further explored.
Much of what read here, though involves spending with no context. Someone saying they did 50k last week sounds exciting, but it could have come from business spending, reimbursable employee expenses, or they could have a substantial personal income.
I'm just trying to find ways to level the field.
Much of what read here, though involves spending with no context. Someone saying they did 50k last week sounds exciting, but it could have come from business spending, reimbursable employee expenses, or they could have a substantial personal income.
I'm just trying to find ways to level the field.
Why're you trying to find our levels? That's your first mistake.
Start small and build your way up. Just because you see someone doing 25-50K in MS doesn't mean you'll be doing that.
Also, if you don't have the means or the tolerance for the types of risk you're going to make, then this game isn't for you.
Start small and build your way up. Just because you see someone doing 25-50K in MS doesn't mean you'll be doing that.
Also, if you don't have the means or the tolerance for the types of risk you're going to make, then this game isn't for you.
Anyone claiming 50k in a week is almost certainly NOT doing manufactured spend. That would be one hundred $500 prepaid cards in a week.
#7
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angles
Posts: 2,101
So here are a few of my questions:
What percentage of MS seems sustainable relative to annual income and relative to credit limit?
Within the spending on one card, what percentage of real versus manufactured spending seems sustainable?
How many cards do you MS on simultaneously?
Do you max out your spending to annual income ratio with several issuing banks simultaneously?
I know we all have different comfort levels. I am curious to see what has worked.
What percentage of MS seems sustainable relative to annual income and relative to credit limit?
Within the spending on one card, what percentage of real versus manufactured spending seems sustainable?
How many cards do you MS on simultaneously?
Do you max out your spending to annual income ratio with several issuing banks simultaneously?
I know we all have different comfort levels. I am curious to see what has worked.
Use only the CC giving U the max benefits.
50% of CL is generally safe irrespective of your annual income, however MS>20k may be questionable.
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: CT
Posts: 50
Developing a System
Why're you trying to find our levels? That's your first mistake.
Start small and build your way up. Just because you see someone doing 25-50K in MS doesn't mean you'll be doing that.
Also, if you don't have the means or the tolerance for the types of risk you're going to make, then this game isn't for you.
Start small and build your way up. Just because you see someone doing 25-50K in MS doesn't mean you'll be doing that.
Also, if you don't have the means or the tolerance for the types of risk you're going to make, then this game isn't for you.
Certainly, though, I understand if you do not feel comfortable to discuss it this way.
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: CT
Posts: 50
Developing a System
On the 20k, do you mean with any one bank?
#11
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angles
Posts: 2,101
If your CL is <5k on the card U are using, aggressive/safe move could be to roll, means U pay off the balance and charge again and rinse. but maintain below 50% CL balance before the close of the monthly statement. (This is not based on any analysis but my comfort level and logical sense)
#12
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New Jersey
Programs: Delta P, SPG G, Marriott S, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,007
I am somewhere around 35k a month. I know folks who are over 100k, and have known of folks doing WAY more.
You do not need solely a credit card earning more than 2%. Plenty of MS opportunities that are zero cost. Most common is Amazon Payments, but there are at least 2 or 3 very easy ones that are NET COST $0.
Read up here, but then explore for yourself. Use this site for ideas, but... don't limit yourself just to what is here, or what someone says.
Keep in mind, yeah, if you do MS of 20x your annual income, it looks suspicious, until you break it down to 10 or 15 cards, in which case it is not, and now it is 1x your annual income. Voila.
Start a business, you can easily do A LOT more.
Involve other people, now you just doubled what you can do.
Makes sense?
Btw, want proof you do not need a 2x or more card? Right now I am milking my hotel points and miles, saving the 5x cards for others... earning points plus cash back, best of both worlds.
I urge anyone to read Michael Michalko's book, Thinkertoys. It will open up your creativity and absolutely help.
MS is rewarding when you do it, even if it is not your own idea.... but it is MUCH MORE fun when you have that AHA moment for yourself.
You do not need solely a credit card earning more than 2%. Plenty of MS opportunities that are zero cost. Most common is Amazon Payments, but there are at least 2 or 3 very easy ones that are NET COST $0.
Read up here, but then explore for yourself. Use this site for ideas, but... don't limit yourself just to what is here, or what someone says.
Keep in mind, yeah, if you do MS of 20x your annual income, it looks suspicious, until you break it down to 10 or 15 cards, in which case it is not, and now it is 1x your annual income. Voila.
Start a business, you can easily do A LOT more.
Involve other people, now you just doubled what you can do.
Makes sense?
Btw, want proof you do not need a 2x or more card? Right now I am milking my hotel points and miles, saving the 5x cards for others... earning points plus cash back, best of both worlds.
I urge anyone to read Michael Michalko's book, Thinkertoys. It will open up your creativity and absolutely help.
MS is rewarding when you do it, even if it is not your own idea.... but it is MUCH MORE fun when you have that AHA moment for yourself.
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: CT
Posts: 50
In general, the CLs on my cards afford a healthy amount of MS. I pay them down repeatedly intra-month and never close with a 10% balance to CL. I also can float a fair amount of spend if need be.
I have several convenient sources of MS vehicles, and several avenues to offload, rinse, repeat.
I am still gearing up, though I can triple what I already do with no great increase in time or effort. But I want to be thorough about his. Besides risking the FR on an Amex card, does the level of GC, VR, or similar vehicle spend relative to income matter?
I have several convenient sources of MS vehicles, and several avenues to offload, rinse, repeat.
I am still gearing up, though I can triple what I already do with no great increase in time or effort. But I want to be thorough about his. Besides risking the FR on an Amex card, does the level of GC, VR, or similar vehicle spend relative to income matter?
#15
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 203