Developing a System

Old Feb 13, 14, 4:06 pm
  #1  
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Developing a System

Well, we sure are a merry bunch of piranhas! I have read many threads in depth and have benefitted greatly from so many contributors. Thank you FT and thank you for the input of so many contributors!

There are still some things that escape me though. We come in many shapes and sizes - age, financial profile, experience, household size, etc. I am trying to develop an efficient, adaptable system that can cut across these parameters.

So here are a few of my questions:

What percentage of MS seems sustainable relative to annual income and relative to credit limit?
Within the spending on one card, what percentage of real versus manufactured spending seems sustainable?
How many cards do you MS on simultaneously?
Do you max out your spending to annual income ratio with several issuing banks simultaneously?

I know we all have different comfort levels. I am curious to see what has worked.
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Old Feb 13, 14, 4:34 pm
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Originally Posted by Rossir View Post
Well, we sure are a merry bunch of piranhas! I have read many threads in depth and have benefitted greatly from so many contributors. Thank you FT and thank you for the input of so many contributors!

There are still some things that escape me though. We come in many shapes and sizes - age, financial profile, experience, household size, etc. I am trying to develop an efficient, adaptable system that can cut across these parameters.

So here are a few of my questions:

What percentage of MS seems sustainable relative to annual income and relative to credit limit?
Within the spending on one card, what percentage of real versus manufactured spending seems sustainable?
How many cards do you MS on simultaneously?
Do you max out your spending to annual income ratio with several issuing banks simultaneously?

I know we all have different comfort levels. I am curious to see what has worked.
Each one's comfort level is different, approx for 2013 -

1 - 90-100% on 2 cards
2 - 90% ms
3 - 2-3
4 - yes
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Old Feb 13, 14, 4:39 pm
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I think a more important question that "how much can you get away with" is "how do you go about it to get away with it"? Not all MS methods are created equal when it comes to raising flags.
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Old Feb 13, 14, 6:03 pm
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I agree that certain ways of spending may raise less flags. I also think that being able to defend your spending is important, should you be called upon to do so. Those are topics I think could be further explored.

Much of what read here, though involves spending with no context. Someone saying they did 50k last week sounds exciting, but it could have come from business spending, reimbursable employee expenses, or they could have a substantial personal income.

I'm just trying to find ways to level the field.
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Old Feb 13, 14, 6:09 pm
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Originally Posted by Rossir View Post
I agree that certain ways of spending may raise less flags. I also think that being able to defend your spending is important, should you be called upon to do so. Those are topics I think could be further explored.

Much of what read here, though involves spending with no context. Someone saying they did 50k last week sounds exciting, but it could have come from business spending, reimbursable employee expenses, or they could have a substantial personal income.

I'm just trying to find ways to level the field.
Why're you trying to find our levels? That's your first mistake.
Start small and build your way up. Just because you see someone doing 25-50K in MS doesn't mean you'll be doing that.

Also, if you don't have the means or the tolerance for the types of risk you're going to make, then this game isn't for you.
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Old Feb 13, 14, 6:26 pm
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Originally Posted by Rossir View Post
I agree that certain ways of spending may raise less flags. I also think that being able to defend your spending is important, should you be called upon to do so. Those are topics I think could be further explored.

Much of what read here, though involves spending with no context. Someone saying they did 50k last week sounds exciting, but it could have come from business spending, reimbursable employee expenses, or they could have a substantial personal income.

I'm just trying to find ways to level the field.
Originally Posted by f0xx View Post
Why're you trying to find our levels? That's your first mistake.
Start small and build your way up. Just because you see someone doing 25-50K in MS doesn't mean you'll be doing that.

Also, if you don't have the means or the tolerance for the types of risk you're going to make, then this game isn't for you.
You did not make a mistake, Rossir. Lot's of talk on this board (have you ever heard the song Everybody Talks Big)?

Anyone claiming 50k in a week is almost certainly NOT doing manufactured spend. That would be one hundred $500 prepaid cards in a week.
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Old Feb 13, 14, 6:28 pm
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Originally Posted by Rossir View Post
So here are a few of my questions:

What percentage of MS seems sustainable relative to annual income and relative to credit limit?
Within the spending on one card, what percentage of real versus manufactured spending seems sustainable?
How many cards do you MS on simultaneously?
Do you max out your spending to annual income ratio with several issuing banks simultaneously?

I know we all have different comfort levels. I am curious to see what has worked.
MS makes sense only if U have a CC giving U >2pts/$spent

Use only the CC giving U the max benefits.

50% of CL is generally safe irrespective of your annual income, however MS>20k may be questionable.
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Old Feb 13, 14, 6:36 pm
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Developing a System

Originally Posted by f0xx View Post
Why're you trying to find our levels? That's your first mistake.
Start small and build your way up. Just because you see someone doing 25-50K in MS doesn't mean you'll be doing that.

Also, if you don't have the means or the tolerance for the types of risk you're going to make, then this game isn't for you.
That's a bit harsh. Rather than comment on my means, tolerance and understanding of this process, I thought it might be beneficial to couch MS in terms of percentages. What is small and what is large is relative.

Certainly, though, I understand if you do not feel comfortable to discuss it this way.
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Old Feb 13, 14, 6:42 pm
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Developing a System

Originally Posted by prasha11 View Post
MS makes sense only if U have a CC giving U >2pts/$spent

Use only the CC giving U the max benefits.

50% of CL is generally safe irrespective of your annual income, however MS>20k may be questionable.
Thank you, Prasha. Questions: 50% of CL on one card, or overall on cards by one issuing bank, or overall against all issuing banks that you have cards with?

On the 20k, do you mean with any one bank?
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Old Feb 13, 14, 7:47 pm
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Originally Posted by NauticalWheeler View Post
You did not make a mistake, Rossir. Lot's of talk on this board (have you ever heard the song Everybody Talks Big)?

Anyone claiming 50k in a week is almost certainly NOT doing manufactured spend. That would be one hundred $500 prepaid cards in a week.
So? Just because it sounds like a lot to you doesn't mean it's impossible. Like with most things in life, there's always a bigger fish in this game, and what seems conceivable to most people is simply what they are personally doing.
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Old Feb 13, 14, 7:53 pm
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Originally Posted by Rossir View Post
Thank you, Prasha. Questions: 50% of CL on one card, or overall on cards by one issuing bank, or overall against all issuing banks that you have cards with?

On the 20k, do you mean with any one bank?
Yes, the CL on the card U are using (assumption is U have more than 2 CCs)

If your CL is <5k on the card U are using, aggressive/safe move could be to roll, means U pay off the balance and charge again and rinse. but maintain below 50% CL balance before the close of the monthly statement. (This is not based on any analysis but my comfort level and logical sense)
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Old Feb 13, 14, 8:46 pm
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I am somewhere around 35k a month. I know folks who are over 100k, and have known of folks doing WAY more.

You do not need solely a credit card earning more than 2%. Plenty of MS opportunities that are zero cost. Most common is Amazon Payments, but there are at least 2 or 3 very easy ones that are NET COST $0.

Read up here, but then explore for yourself. Use this site for ideas, but... don't limit yourself just to what is here, or what someone says.

Keep in mind, yeah, if you do MS of 20x your annual income, it looks suspicious, until you break it down to 10 or 15 cards, in which case it is not, and now it is 1x your annual income. Voila.

Start a business, you can easily do A LOT more.

Involve other people, now you just doubled what you can do.

Makes sense?

Btw, want proof you do not need a 2x or more card? Right now I am milking my hotel points and miles, saving the 5x cards for others... earning points plus cash back, best of both worlds.

I urge anyone to read Michael Michalko's book, Thinkertoys. It will open up your creativity and absolutely help.

MS is rewarding when you do it, even if it is not your own idea.... but it is MUCH MORE fun when you have that AHA moment for yourself.
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Old Feb 13, 14, 8:59 pm
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In general, the CLs on my cards afford a healthy amount of MS. I pay them down repeatedly intra-month and never close with a 10% balance to CL. I also can float a fair amount of spend if need be.

I have several convenient sources of MS vehicles, and several avenues to offload, rinse, repeat.

I am still gearing up, though I can triple what I already do with no great increase in time or effort. But I want to be thorough about his. Besides risking the FR on an Amex card, does the level of GC, VR, or similar vehicle spend relative to income matter?
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Old Feb 13, 14, 9:06 pm
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Damn. I was thinking this was going to be more of a logistical thread.

I'm developing a system in terms of tracking everything, so far so good, but I would love to know how other people keep records.
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Old Feb 13, 14, 9:14 pm
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Originally Posted by Haleyb View Post
Damn. I was thinking this was going to be more of a logistical thread.

I'm developing a system in terms of tracking everything, so far so good, but I would love to know how other people keep records.
I throw all my stuff in a bag.
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