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Quote:

Originally Posted by MsArbi (Post 23085471)

So what does it take for one to self-proclaim HH status these days? ;)

Seriously, neither you nor anyone else in this MS game can wash the hands clean of any blame. Publicity may kill a deal, but so does scale when one HHer is able to do 100x or 1000x the average. And some deals just die because the losers are being forced to get smarter - by us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by azepine00 (Post 23086067)

Were you banned from costco because of others too?

Possibly, but possibly not. And I will remind the readers of a few things: I was never banned from Costco. I was told I could not shop Costco.com again and once I heard those words I actually never tried it again and so I thought I was banned but never really was. I did do the diamond thing for 9 years. I did it 2x a month. Amounts varied. Lowest like $7k, highest was $140k. You had to wait 6 months to do the second one. I think in my last attempt I went in too early. Things had also changed there in how they process refunds and yes, that store had gotten other users doing this, or so I was told (there are a limited amount of Costcos in my area so that is likely). So the fact there were more than one of us triggered this. And regardless of what happened back then (I think it's a bit creepy that you had to go digging for dirt btw), I come to find that at least as of last winter, I can in fact buy from Costco.com because I have purchased from it. I also maintain a membership at the store. I have not done diamonds but I have no qualms with anyone who does. And no one can say what exact number is too much or not right. That, once again, is completely arbitrary.

As well, we all mature over time with how we do MS and how we talk about it. Oh I have made my blunders and talked to the wrong sources about such things. I brought this up at the CLT DO where my speech was about how to handle MS not giving up secrets. What I was saying was, let's not make the same mistakes now. So no, I aint perfect and no one is. But we now should all try to heed this advice and do what we can to prolong this craft and stop shooting ourselves in the foot to try and kill it because we can.

Just cuz I have made my mistakes in the past, what, does that somehow invalidate that advice? If anything, someone who has made mistakes but now knows how to avoid them should be listened to a bit, don't you think? Or is it just that you just want me to sit here and try to back pedal or defend myself (to therefore invalidate) just to see it or something? Again, do people want to find ways to kill this stuff or do we want to stop the bleeding while we still may be able to?

Alls I am saying is I know right now whatever I am doing at the stores I visit is not what is killing this. But every day something new comes up that is hurting it. The hunt has changed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marathon Man (Post 23086143)

I dunno. I was told I was one.

and so what you are saying is that since everyone should be blamed, we should just, what, be ok with things dying and let publicity kill it too?

And what is "average"? what is too much and who makes these numbers up?

Look I dont own my space nor do I consider myself better than anyone. But I will repeat: I have been doing this a long time and only now since it gets constantly chattered about in here do things begin to change at the stores.

I have this one wmt where all I do in there is sub $3k gc or ST (or AS when it worked) and also BP. That is all they allow and have allowed for a couple years now. So by the standards you are talking about, maybe that number is "average" and is therefore OK. Well why has that store also now changed?

Possibly, but possibly not. And I will remind the readers of a few things: I was never banned from Costco. I was told I could not shop Costco.com again and once I heard those words I actually never tried it again and so I thought I was banned but never really was. I did do the diamond thing for 9 years. I did it 2x a month. Amounts varied. Lowest like $7k, highest was $140k. You had to wait 6 months to do the second one. I think in my last attempt I went in too early. Things had also changed there in how they process refunds and yes, that store had gotten other users doing this, or so I was told (there are a limited amount of Costcos in my area so that is likely). So the fact there were more than one of us triggered this. And regardless of what happened back then (I think it's a bit creepy that you had to go digging for dirt btw), I come to find that at least as of last winter, I can in fact buy from Costco.com because I have purchased from it. I also maintain a membership at the store. I have not done diamonds but I have no qualms with anyone who does. And no one can say what exact number is too much or not right. That, once again, is completely arbitrary.

As well, we all mature over time with how we do MS and how we talk about it. Oh I have made my blunders and talked to the wrong sources about such things. I brought this up at the CLT DO where my speech was about how to handle MS not giving up secrets. What I was saying was, let's not make the same mistakes now. So no, I aint perfect and no one is. But we now should all try to heed this advice and do what we can to prolong this craft and stop shooting ourselves in the foot to try and kill it because we can.

Just cuz I have made my mistakes in the past, what, does that somehow invalidate that advice? If anything, someone who has made mistakes but now knows how to avoid them should be listened to a bit, don't you think? Or is it just that you just want me to sit here and try to back pedal or defend myself (to therefore invalidate) just to see it or something? Again, do people want to find ways to kill this stuff or do we want to stop the bleeding while we still may be able to?

Alls I am saying is I know right now whatever I am doing at the stores I visit is not what is killing this. But every day something new comes up that is hurting it. The hunt has changed.

Argh...Marathon Man...I liked it when mainly your posts were MS songs. Now its seems like a long essay and lecture in most of your recent posts. I agree with your points in that we all should be low key to prolong the craft and not mention things specifically but in acronyms to at least mask it such as Metabank = MB and probably not mention chains by name would also help.

But its getting a little tiring of this blame game. It literally is like beating a dead horse. We know what is at stake and I really hope a lot of the newbs drop out of MS because of the OV thing. Same thing happened when VRs were shut down by CVS. I am glad the "No MO purchases at WM" thread was shut down by the Mod because it was so hard to filter all the constant badgering that has been going on the last week or so instead of focusing on workarounds.

So it is posted here

But remember, I did more songs when I was happier. Now, as you said, there is more of a reason to be less happy, don't you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marathon Man (Post 23084628)

Yea im a heavy ms hitter. I take this stuff seriously. If my stores start to change though, I can be 100% sure it wont be cuz of me.

No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJP3 (Post 23086286)

No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

well this has been my point. Death by a thousand pin pricks. Same thing.

I'll amend it. 99%.
there. Happy?

I figured people would hone in on my post anyway.

Fact is tho, as I have said... I have been doing the same thing all along. It's been working all this time. I do not update my IOS and piss off my internal customer (me or the store).

What's changed is:

blogs blogs blogs (these just did not exist 8-9 years ago!)
many many more new people getting into this (inevitable but the time has come)
many people-new and not new--not knowing how to roll with it and making many big mistakes (like showing debit cards to clerk etc)
blogs blogs blogs
CNN, other news agencies, Yahoo, etc. picking up the stories and posting it for the masses.
the fact that more and more company officials ARE looking at these sites, forums and blogs. They really are and they did not used to.
the lessening of things that made the other set happy: ie, it is harder to get status, do MRs, do things that make earning butt in seat miles as easy as it used to be. MS and cash back and the fat wallet-like mentality has increased over time. There was a time when guys like me who did MOs with the AS card and coins or one off GCs from times like 2004,5 etc were looked at as though we had three heads. Now everybody is jumping in the pool and asking how to do it and posting it on --you guessed it--blogs blogs blogs.

So if I get this correctly, many people who are not newbies want to keep these techniques to themselves as a small niche so that they can continue to rack in thousands of dollars and enjoy free first class travel all over the world and be the envy of others (almost sounded like the envy part is what really matter to them).

Hmmm, good luck on that. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmouth2008 (Post 23086372)

to be honest with ya, there are a few dynamics here to consider.

this same set of arguments has been hashed over and over and over again countless times in here and on the blog comment pages by both posters and bloggers many times before.

Yes in a way, the answer is yes. people who do this a lot and get into small off shoot groups and really get serious about this stuff will be the ones who rack in the dough and points. Those who just play it like a game or a hobby cannot continue.

now if you WANT to be in those groups or small offshoots, then there are a few things you COULD do:

1) contribute. Do so not by outing ideas like HEY GUYS I JUST WENT TO STORE X AND IT WORKS! GO NOW EVERYBODY ALL MY FRIENDS!

2) contribute ideas and concepts and thoughts and theories. And test things too. Do research. Get into PMs and emails with like minded people. Have more than 2 posts (why is it always people with 2 posts that ask this same thing?) and gain traction. No way anyone can just start from 0 and expect to do things that people who have been doing this and toiling with things for ages will do.

if you were an expert sky diver and had logged hours in planes and in the air, and I had only been once and had to ride tandem, do you think I would have a chance in hell if we went to like norway and did some cliff swimming? No I would need time in the craft and a lot of in the field experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U1mOWYXhyU

and I missed the envy part at first. No I do not do this to make people envy me, If anything, I can tell you that in my area I tend to downplay it. Non MS neighbors and friends need not know (nor could they ever begin to understand) how and why I could afford to take the family of four to Asia or something. I do this out of the love for travel and also for a sort of income on cash back deals and CC related schema. If someone envies me for it, that is their problem not mine. In fact I hope they do not. Envy is not a good quality and making someone envy is not good either.

What I focused on in your post was the part about how only an experienced set (who likely talks offline) are reaping anything out of this. Yes, that is true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marathon Man (Post 23086362)

What's changed is:

;) Couldn't resist

The genie is out of the lamp my friend. Plus when credit card companies are offering huge incentives for people to visit your site well...you can't blame the bloggers for taking the bait.

If the credit card companies stopped the large affilate sign ups things may change. I gather they won't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evant80 (Post 23087146)

Agreed. So we should all write letters to the cc companies saying these bloggers are promoting abuse and wreckless use or something. Get them to put their affiliate links!

Then again, as with fters, there are still going to be many who still out things cuz they have to. Those who spoke to cnn, yahoo, wsj and npr did it for just 15 minutes of fame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marathon Man (Post 23087230)

Yes you do, thats why you commented with me on the ms songs thread and also why you posted your next post:

I have no job. I work for myself. Some of that work fell off. Then ms picked up. I figured out how to monetize and am still doing that. I know its temp and can end any day but still i would like to see it last.

Those who spoke to cnn, yahoo, wsj and npr did it for just 15 minutes of fame

I think this really explains the difference in passion. For you, this is deeply serious stuff. For others, this is some extra money, which is nice, but can come and go (understanding your point that anyone's job is at risk). So for the latter, "15 minutes of fame" may well be much more desirable than the vague idea of keeping a type of MS alive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoughton (Post 23087278)

Settle down man, just having a bit of fun

figured so, but my offer still stands anyway ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by silver6054 (Post 23087282)

indeed.
The fact is that for me this is my current income of sorts. Admittedly so. So for me it is actually a bit more of a risk and a fragility issue than for some who seem to treat this as though it were just a game to be played after work or on lunch break.

I have said this before and will say it again though:

Someone get me that cush job with the desk I can sit at and scratch cards at my desk where the commute is half decent (I live north of Boston so good luck with that bit) and I’ll take ya aside and spill all kinds of secrets to yiz!

http://mileageupdate.com/marathon-man-to-speak-at-do/

So i got caught w/ 3k of OVs when the music stopped. Is it the general consensus that this is a long-term thing and that I should start spending the money on them in lieu of my CCs or that this will clear up in a reasonable amount of time? Any other options to liquidate these?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wahoowa (Post 23087514)

No consensus. If you can float it, float it. If not, get to work liquidating. Hit the easy ones and pay bills on evolve