LOT Polish Denied Boarding in PEK
Jul 19, 2023, 9:03 am
#123
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,767
LOT apologizes. Will reimburse but in an unclear manner.
https://onemileatatime.com/news/lot-...nied-boarding/
Note: In Ben’s article published a minute ago, said there is ONE employee in Beijing Office made a decision that all partners redemption were fraudulent therefore canceled them unilaterally… So this ONE employee has the ultimate power to make such decision that the whole LOT Beijing Office would obliged to, despite LOT HQ does not agree. What a super power this ONE employee has processed…
I still suspect while the Real Truth would not be known, the reality is NOT as simple as LOT claimed. The hyposis described in my previous post in this thread remains a high probability, regardless how a few posters on this thread defend the “laws” inside China.
Note: In Ben’s article published a minute ago, said there is ONE employee in Beijing Office made a decision that all partners redemption were fraudulent therefore canceled them unilaterally… So this ONE employee has the ultimate power to make such decision that the whole LOT Beijing Office would obliged to, despite LOT HQ does not agree. What a super power this ONE employee has processed…
I still suspect while the Real Truth would not be known, the reality is NOT as simple as LOT claimed. The hyposis described in my previous post in this thread remains a high probability, regardless how a few posters on this thread defend the “laws” inside China.
Last edited by Happy; Jul 19, 2023 at 9:40 am
Jul 19, 2023, 9:19 am
#124
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,057
https://onemileatatime.com/news/lot-...nied-boarding/
Note: In Ben’s article published a minute ago, said there is ONE employee in Beijing Office made a unit a decision that all partners redemption were fraudulent therefore canceled them unilaterally… So this ONE employee has the ultimate power to make such decision….
I still suspect while the Real Truth would not be known, the reality is NOT as simple as LOT claimed. The hyposis described in my previous post in this thread remains a high probability, regardless how a few posters on this thread defend the “laws” inside China.
Note: In Ben’s article published a minute ago, said there is ONE employee in Beijing Office made a unit a decision that all partners redemption were fraudulent therefore canceled them unilaterally… So this ONE employee has the ultimate power to make such decision….
I still suspect while the Real Truth would not be known, the reality is NOT as simple as LOT claimed. The hyposis described in my previous post in this thread remains a high probability, regardless how a few posters on this thread defend the “laws” inside China.
Jul 19, 2023, 9:24 am
#125
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,593
Immediate capitulation under the slightest bit of scrutiny and exposure by our American friends 
. It’s a pity Ben can’t do more to expose the other stuff they get away with.
They can obviously see the tax value on the original ticket but that does seem a little bit odd and it’s for the ticketing airline to request the refund, which I presume the OP has done and received their miles back.
I’m amused at the comments there about Poland having strong consumer protection, the laws are there, but the NEB is toothless, probably by intention.
. It’s a pity Ben can’t do more to expose the other stuff they get away with. They can obviously see the tax value on the original ticket but that does seem a little bit odd and it’s for the ticketing airline to request the refund, which I presume the OP has done and received their miles back.
I’m amused at the comments there about Poland having strong consumer protection, the laws are there, but the NEB is toothless, probably by intention.
Jul 19, 2023, 10:27 am
#126
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: VIE
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Posts: 3,795
https://onemileatatime.com/news/lot-...nied-boarding/
Note: In Ben’s article published a minute ago, said there is ONE employee in Beijing Office made a decision that all partners redemption were fraudulent therefore canceled them unilaterally… So this ONE employee has the ultimate power to make such decision that the whole LOT Beijing Office would obliged to, despite LOT HQ does not agree. What a super power this ONE employee has processed…
I still suspect while the Real Truth would not be known, the reality is NOT as simple as LOT claimed. The hyposis described in my previous post in this thread remains a high probability, regardless how a few posters on this thread defend the “laws” inside China.
Note: In Ben’s article published a minute ago, said there is ONE employee in Beijing Office made a decision that all partners redemption were fraudulent therefore canceled them unilaterally… So this ONE employee has the ultimate power to make such decision that the whole LOT Beijing Office would obliged to, despite LOT HQ does not agree. What a super power this ONE employee has processed…
I still suspect while the Real Truth would not be known, the reality is NOT as simple as LOT claimed. The hyposis described in my previous post in this thread remains a high probability, regardless how a few posters on this thread defend the “laws” inside China.
I am inclined to believe this "rule" was made up by the handling company in Beijing (see the suggested fraud option in one of the previous posts) except for the fact that LOT didn't do anything about it for months. That makes me a bit more sceptical but it could simply be the case of customer services never escalating the issue to someone competent.
Jul 19, 2023, 12:45 pm
#127
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,767
Well, I'm torn. If LOT didn't want to sell awards from China, they would simply zero the availability. LOT's customer services also repeatedly confirmed that the tickets were valid - if it was a policy to cancel these tickets, they would show as cancelled in their system. For that reason, I don't think this issue originated in Warsaw.
I am inclined to believe this "rule" was made up by the handling company in Beijing (see the suggested fraud option in one of the previous posts) except for the fact that LOT didn't do anything about it for months. That makes me a bit more sceptical but it could simply be the case of customer services never escalating the issue to someone competent.
I am inclined to believe this "rule" was made up by the handling company in Beijing (see the suggested fraud option in one of the previous posts) except for the fact that LOT didn't do anything about it for months. That makes me a bit more sceptical but it could simply be the case of customer services never escalating the issue to someone competent.
the LOT Beijing Office itself may very well be part of the fraudulent scheme... and according to what was said in Ben's article - it was ONE employee doing that... Who is that ONE employee has such overriding power to make the whole Beijing Office denied boarding to most passengers travel on partner redemption?! The obvious that came to mind is, somebody wants those seats back (for lucrative sale in dark market) - since the Miles and More tickets could not be nullified at will, the partners issued tickets became easy targets. It happened to UA awards many years ago, except the awards on Air China flights simply got cancelled, long before departure time, while in LOT cases, passengers were denied at the airport.
Of course we will never know the TRUTH, which is a rarity inside China, on virtually everything.
Jul 19, 2023, 8:02 pm
#129
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 31
https://onemileatatime.com/news/lot-...nied-boarding/
Note: In Ben’s article published a minute ago, said there is ONE employee in Beijing Office made a decision that all partners redemption were fraudulent therefore canceled them unilaterally… So this ONE employee has the ultimate power to make such decision that the whole LOT Beijing Office would obliged to, despite LOT HQ does not agree. What a super power this ONE employee has processed…
I still suspect while the Real Truth would not be known, the reality is NOT as simple as LOT claimed. The hyposis described in my previous post in this thread remains a high probability, regardless how a few posters on this thread defend the “laws” inside China.
Note: In Ben’s article published a minute ago, said there is ONE employee in Beijing Office made a decision that all partners redemption were fraudulent therefore canceled them unilaterally… So this ONE employee has the ultimate power to make such decision that the whole LOT Beijing Office would obliged to, despite LOT HQ does not agree. What a super power this ONE employee has processed…
I still suspect while the Real Truth would not be known, the reality is NOT as simple as LOT claimed. The hyposis described in my previous post in this thread remains a high probability, regardless how a few posters on this thread defend the “laws” inside China.
I would want to add the detail that the station manager wasn't the one making decisions. He kept telling me his boss is the ultimate decision maker. I had the pleasure of speaking to her (kept her number too). She was the one claiming that credit card transfers to airlines and then booking with miles is "illegal" and the one threatened to call the police. She was trying to frighten me since I'm a foreigner and don't want to get in trouble with the local police. That being said, this is the act of a few individuals and I do not believe this reflects largely their society as a whole. Nowhere is perfect and I was just unlucky to have to interact with some "bad apples". But luckily, I'm fortunate to have help in the US from people like Ben at OMAAT and you all sharing ideas and pulling for me. For this, I thank Ben and all of you here.
Last edited by ny110010001; Jul 19, 2023 at 8:10 pm
Jul 19, 2023, 8:22 pm
#130
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 31
Ben's speculation seems to be accurate based on what I experienced. I would want to add the detail that the station manager wasn't the one making decisions. He kept telling me his boss is the ultimate decision maker. He repeatedly said he can't make the decision and can't go over his boss; he'll get in trouble. He hand me his phone to speak with his boss and I had the "pleasure" of speaking to her. She (I don't know her by name, just a phone number) was the one claiming that credit card transfers to airlines and then booking with miles is "illegal" and the one threatened to call the police. She knows I'm a foreigner and likely don't want to get in trouble with the local police. At the end, it is likely the decision of a lone individual and the rest are just "puppets". She is the one who should at least be trained on proper customer service or at worst be dismissed from her role.
Jul 19, 2023, 8:29 pm
#131
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 31
ny110010001 Assuming you are the "reader" mentioned in this article, you obviously shouldn't accept the reimbursement until they clarify that you will receive the entire y40k. If the "minus the value of original ticket" means the miles, then I suppose that's cool (i.e let them keep the miles). But, there is some risk that they would attempt to ascribe a cash value to it.
If they play it right, they may get recognized for a great recovery on an awful situation. So let's see if they are smart enough to realize this opportunity.
Jul 20, 2023, 3:43 am
#132
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,089
Hi hugolover, been awhile...
Ben's speculation seems to be accurate based on what I experienced. I would want to add the detail that the station manager wasn't the one making decisions. He kept telling me his boss is the ultimate decision maker. He repeatedly said he can't make the decision and can't go over his boss; he'll get in trouble. He hand me his phone to speak with his boss and I had the "pleasure" of speaking to her. She (I don't know her by name, just a phone number) was the one claiming that credit card transfers to airlines and then booking with miles is "illegal" and the one threatened to call the police. She knows I'm a foreigner and likely don't want to get in trouble with the local police. At the end, it is likely the decision of a lone individual and the rest are just "puppets". She is the one who should at least be trained on proper customer service or at worst be dismissed from her role.
Ben's speculation seems to be accurate based on what I experienced. I would want to add the detail that the station manager wasn't the one making decisions. He kept telling me his boss is the ultimate decision maker. He repeatedly said he can't make the decision and can't go over his boss; he'll get in trouble. He hand me his phone to speak with his boss and I had the "pleasure" of speaking to her. She (I don't know her by name, just a phone number) was the one claiming that credit card transfers to airlines and then booking with miles is "illegal" and the one threatened to call the police. She knows I'm a foreigner and likely don't want to get in trouble with the local police. At the end, it is likely the decision of a lone individual and the rest are just "puppets". She is the one who should at least be trained on proper customer service or at worst be dismissed from her role.
Aug 1, 2023, 10:05 pm
#133
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: Mileageplus
Posts: 246
I’m just reading this thread for the first time and am happy to see you got a resolution. It’s extremely hard to claw money from airlines, so well done to you and anyone who helped. I can only hope this causes LOT to review their staffing at Beijing as the other cases I see here point to that location.
Even if they have had fraudulently issued tickets, they all belong to Staralliance and should have mechanisms in place to determine authenticity of tickets versus making summary judgments. These weren’t issued by some third party agency.
As for others who have experienced ticket issues at the airports, a lot of time with electronic ticketing, especially if there are multiple airlines on the same ticket, the electronic records can get out of synch. This means the eticket attached to the reservation needs to be re-synchronized. It can happen when a ticket has been issued far in advance of travel. Just my theory on those issues. They are not the same as being told by airport staff you have an invalid ticket.
Even if they have had fraudulently issued tickets, they all belong to Staralliance and should have mechanisms in place to determine authenticity of tickets versus making summary judgments. These weren’t issued by some third party agency.
As for others who have experienced ticket issues at the airports, a lot of time with electronic ticketing, especially if there are multiple airlines on the same ticket, the electronic records can get out of synch. This means the eticket attached to the reservation needs to be re-synchronized. It can happen when a ticket has been issued far in advance of travel. Just my theory on those issues. They are not the same as being told by airport staff you have an invalid ticket.
Aug 11, 2023, 3:23 pm
#134
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 31
Hi everyone. I just want to provide an update that I received a reimbursement from LOT Polish Airlines. The amount is within my expectation i.e., they actually used the fx rate back in March and the payout was timely. I am satisfied with the outcome and happy that the airline was able to make me whole. This situation was resolved professionally and amicably once it caught the attention of the airline with the help from Ben at OMAAT.
For those of you still in the process of getting reimbursed, consider reaching out to travel websites like OMAAT or general high profile news organizations like the New York Times (email: [email protected]). Just today, I read an NYT article about JetBlue making things right for their customers after a reporter from the NYT reached out (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/10/t...ght-delay.html).
I want to thank everyone who has contributed their advice. I read through them all and considered going to all options mentioned. Luckily, I didn't need to resort to some of the alternatives that were provided. May this post serve future travelers that are in a dire situation.
For those of you still in the process of getting reimbursed, consider reaching out to travel websites like OMAAT or general high profile news organizations like the New York Times (email: [email protected]). Just today, I read an NYT article about JetBlue making things right for their customers after a reporter from the NYT reached out (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/10/t...ght-delay.html).
I want to thank everyone who has contributed their advice. I read through them all and considered going to all options mentioned. Luckily, I didn't need to resort to some of the alternatives that were provided. May this post serve future travelers that are in a dire situation.
Aug 11, 2023, 3:37 pm
#135
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,593
An excellent outcome but rightly ridiculous that only when it hit a well known US credit card site did LOT react.
It’s a shame that airlines with such a good product, like LO and TK have really poor CS. LOT still don’t accept email submissions of claims and email back from [email protected]! LOT also don’t participate in ADR and has no phone service for customer service whatsoever. Even W6/W9 does both.
If they could respect EC261 rights and have a decent CS department they would be one of the best carriers.
Furthermore, as I posted on Kafeteria, they won’t participate at the World Aviation Festival next month. They’re led by donkeys.
It’s a shame that airlines with such a good product, like LO and TK have really poor CS. LOT still don’t accept email submissions of claims and email back from [email protected]! LOT also don’t participate in ADR and has no phone service for customer service whatsoever. Even W6/W9 does both.
If they could respect EC261 rights and have a decent CS department they would be one of the best carriers.
Furthermore, as I posted on Kafeteria, they won’t participate at the World Aviation Festival next month. They’re led by donkeys.