moondog

WRONG

hugolover

It would be so easy just to close off this flight to non-M&M awards. It’s a simple fix and it would probably stop all of this IDB.

grlmopz

I'm very interested in this thread because I'm booked to fly JFK-WAW-PEK using Avianca miles in November.

It appears that the consensus is that this is a problem with ground staff at PEK, but I wanted to ensure there have been no reported instances of this problem in the opposite direction.

s0ssos

Are you saying the government in China protects poor people?

beachdora

Yikes! Does this trigger a red flag? I thought this was a widely used points strategy. :O

moondog

No. I was merely pointing out that your claim was factually wrong.

hugolover

I’d expect to be IDB if booked with AV miles. Seems they don’t like any non-M&M redemptions.

SO WHY OPEN THE SEATS?

hugolover

I suppose now it’s on Ben’s credit card site, Krzysztof Moczulski will probably comment on it tomorrow.

moondog

You claimed that "China doesn't have a legal system for consumers". It seems that you are either unaware of PRC consumer protection law or have minimal (no?) experience invoking it. But, it IS a thing. That's why I called you out. I'm not interested in debating the pros and cons of this legislation here.

Happy

I came here to read after reading Ben’s article on his blog.

I only went thru the last 3 pages but I am surprised to see no one speculate that the LOT Beijing office staff might be the fraudsters themselves? Note that all the denied boardings were on partner airlines redemption, they do not dare to cancel a Miles and More booking because they could not make up excuses. What makes me feel that they might be the fraudsters themselves were their stance even though LOT HQ told them the tickets are valid. Just HOW they can still say the mileage redemption were from mileage brokers when their own company HQ told them these were not the cases?

This reminds me years ago, may be over 10 years ago that UA issued redemption tickets on Air China premium cabins were being canceled by UA China Office! Eventually UA stepped in and after investigations, the conclusion was the cancellations were to free up award spaces being sold as cheap premium tickets on the Chinese market. Similar frauds happened to BA Avios redemption on CX flights intra Asia that eventually caused CX to request BA to block redemption on close departure within 7 days.

Could it be possible the LOT Beijing Office staff from the top down, collude with the mileage ticket brokers to grab spaces that were booked with partner programs, knowing this could be much harder for the passengers to resolve the cancellation. Then the freed up spaces could be sold on the fraud market. There are no shortage of partly overt solicitation on cheap premium cabin tickets ex China. With the severe shortage of available flights and the skyrocketing demands, it is a real possibility that internal frauds exist, especially we are talking about China.

cfischer

with trips ending in the US I would simply get the US DOT involved and have them sort it out.

s0ssos

I view your statement in the same vein as, speaking of the past few years, "Hong Kong has a rule of law".
I guess we have different opinions and will never agree.

moondog

To reiterate, your claim was that China doesn't have a legal system to protect consumers, and I suggested that this is EASILY DISPROVEN.

The efficacy of these laws is obviously subjective, but even in this respect, I'm not convinced that you've had sufficient experience lodging or fielding complaints to make an informed judgment. For whatever it's worth, 60% of my clients sell goods/services to Chinese consumers. As such, I've seen a lot of cases over the past decade. We can't simply ignore them and always try to avoid actually going to trial (even in China, this is typically expensive).

oliver2002

Hillarious comments there... my highlights

- Call Dr Böse! (who doesn't touch things starting outside the EU)
- Elliot! (who deals with US things only)
- *A! 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
- small claims court in NYC!
- Aeroplan will sort it out!

Fabo.sk

They do have a point with the NYC/US courts, as that is where the leg ended (and maybe the whole ticket originated, if bought as r/t?).