Nov 12, 2019, 6:52 am
Last edit by: ACflyerDE
The programme will now change from 1 January 2022 (postponed again and it will not start before 2023)
https://www.miles-and-more.com/row/e...ts/update.html
All the changes are listed on the official M&M Website: https://www.miles-and-more.com/de/en...ts/update.html
Starting 2021, the system for earning status changes. From then on, status points are earned by cabin and segment flown:
Regional flights will earn 5 points in Economy and Premium Economy, 10 points in First and Business class per segment
Intercontinental flights, ie flights between two IATA regions, will earn 15 points in Economy, 20 in Premium Economy, 50 in Business and 70 in First class segments
There will be two kinds of points : qualifying points (QP): earned with M&M integrated partners (LH/EW/LX/OS/LO/OU/LG/etc) and normal points : earned with other partners like the airlines in the Star Alliance. QP can be earned on LH Airrail train segments, but are capped at 40/120/250 per year for FTL/SEN/HON.
'Frequent Traveler' (FTL, equivalent to *S) status is given to members with 160 points (of which atleast 80 need to be QP), 'Senator' (SEN, *G) to members with 480 points (of which atleast 240 need to be QP). HON Circle (HON) is awarded after reaching 1500 QP in one year.
SEN will receive two evouchers upon qualification each year, HON 4 evouchers. There will be no rollover of QP, but for members who exceed the qualification QP level, M&M will grant the following benefits:
FTL: Mileage exchange for QP at 200 qualifying points
SEN: 2 eVoucher at 700 qualifying points; 15,000 award miles at 1,000 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 1,300 qualifying points
HON:2 eVoucher at 1,800 qualifying points; 30,000 award miles at 2,100 qualifying points; 2 eVoucher at 2,400 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 2,700 qualifying points; Senator partner card at 3,000 qualifying points
The system of status miles, HON Circle miles, select miles, and status star points will be abolished at the end of 2020. Any status earned prior to that will be honored. Any HON Circle miles earned in 2020 will be credited as QP in the ratio 200:1. Status star points earned till end of 2020 will converted to lifetime QP at a ration of 2:1.
Members with a lifetime QP of 7500 will be awarded FTL for their lifetime. If members reach 10000 lifetime QP and have been SEN for at least a cumulative 10 years they will be awarded lifetime SEN status.
Status is always valid for the year of qualification and one additional year. HON and SEN will have a 'soft landing' ie if they cannot requalify for status, they will get a year of SEN or FTL respectively.
https://www.miles-and-more.com/row/e...ts/update.html
All the changes are listed on the official M&M Website: https://www.miles-and-more.com/de/en...ts/update.html
Starting 2021, the system for earning status changes. From then on, status points are earned by cabin and segment flown:
Regional flights will earn 5 points in Economy and Premium Economy, 10 points in First and Business class per segment
Intercontinental flights, ie flights between two IATA regions, will earn 15 points in Economy, 20 in Premium Economy, 50 in Business and 70 in First class segments
There will be two kinds of points : qualifying points (QP): earned with M&M integrated partners (LH/EW/LX/OS/LO/OU/LG/etc) and normal points : earned with other partners like the airlines in the Star Alliance. QP can be earned on LH Airrail train segments, but are capped at 40/120/250 per year for FTL/SEN/HON.
'Frequent Traveler' (FTL, equivalent to *S) status is given to members with 160 points (of which atleast 80 need to be QP), 'Senator' (SEN, *G) to members with 480 points (of which atleast 240 need to be QP). HON Circle (HON) is awarded after reaching 1500 QP in one year.
SEN will receive two evouchers upon qualification each year, HON 4 evouchers. There will be no rollover of QP, but for members who exceed the qualification QP level, M&M will grant the following benefits:
FTL: Mileage exchange for QP at 200 qualifying points
SEN: 2 eVoucher at 700 qualifying points; 15,000 award miles at 1,000 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 1,300 qualifying points
HON:2 eVoucher at 1,800 qualifying points; 30,000 award miles at 2,100 qualifying points; 2 eVoucher at 2,400 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 2,700 qualifying points; Senator partner card at 3,000 qualifying points
The system of status miles, HON Circle miles, select miles, and status star points will be abolished at the end of 2020. Any status earned prior to that will be honored. Any HON Circle miles earned in 2020 will be credited as QP in the ratio 200:1. Status star points earned till end of 2020 will converted to lifetime QP at a ration of 2:1.
Members with a lifetime QP of 7500 will be awarded FTL for their lifetime. If members reach 10000 lifetime QP and have been SEN for at least a cumulative 10 years they will be awarded lifetime SEN status.
Status is always valid for the year of qualification and one additional year. HON and SEN will have a 'soft landing' ie if they cannot requalify for status, they will get a year of SEN or FTL respectively.
New qualifying points system for status from 2024
Nov 24, 2019, 5:06 am
#676
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London, Paris
Programs: LH HON, AF Platinum
Posts: 2,001
"a win concerning SEN" is way too general.
Some, like me, will have to consider to change to another program, maybe even another alliance. My flight pattern (including regular Europe-Australia flights in F) used to work perfectly with M&M, and now they shafted me twice in one go:
1) F got severely devalued.
2) Half of my Europe-Australia segments won't count towards lifetime SEN, the ones on SQ and TG etc., as LH Group doesn't fly to Australia. Would have become lifetime SEN in a bearable number of years under the old system, not anymore.
Concerning the 50rt flights in Germany/Europe: The pressure to reduce short-haul flying has been steadily increasing for a while now; could change dramatically after the next elections in Germany. Have also heard first public voices that criticise LH for incentivising "more flying" right at a time when air travel is one of the foci of the debate on climate change.
Some, like me, will have to consider to change to another program, maybe even another alliance. My flight pattern (including regular Europe-Australia flights in F) used to work perfectly with M&M, and now they shafted me twice in one go:
1) F got severely devalued.
2) Half of my Europe-Australia segments won't count towards lifetime SEN, the ones on SQ and TG etc., as LH Group doesn't fly to Australia. Would have become lifetime SEN in a bearable number of years under the old system, not anymore.
Concerning the 50rt flights in Germany/Europe: The pressure to reduce short-haul flying has been steadily increasing for a while now; could change dramatically after the next elections in Germany. Have also heard first public voices that criticise LH for incentivising "more flying" right at a time when air travel is one of the foci of the debate on climate change.
Nov 24, 2019, 5:07 am
#677
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London, Paris
Programs: LH HON, AF Platinum
Posts: 2,001
Perhaps because there's little cost to providing the benefits? Not like SENs can count on free upgrades, vouchers, fee waivers and decent award miles multipliers.
Access to awards is being enhanced - what is left shouldn't be that costly, as regular capacity controls and rev mgmt apply.
Access to awards is being enhanced - what is left shouldn't be that costly, as regular capacity controls and rev mgmt apply.
Nov 24, 2019, 5:15 am
#678
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,481
Concerning the 50rt flights in Germany/Europe: The pressure to reduce short-haul flying has been steadily increasing for a while now; could change dramatically after the next elections in Germany. Have also heard first public voices that criticise LH for incentivising "more flying" right at a time when air travel is one of the foci of the debate on climate change.
Nov 24, 2019, 5:38 am
#679
Join Date: Jun 2017
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/GfL), LH FTL, SPG Plat
Posts: 52
Apologies if this has been clarified before because I didn't see it upthread. Is it 100% certain that only historic Star Points will count towards LT status? Obviously this would be in addition to any future QP earned when the programme changes. I only ask because that seems more than a little unfair given that not all FTL's and SEN's are equal earnings wise in any given year. I must admit that I also have a selfish interest because I had a few fantastic SEN years when I was not far off HON. So if there was a retrospective QP component in addition to Star Points it would make LT status more achievable. I assume I am answering my own naive question and LH have no reason to be unduly generous for past behaviour...
As an aside I find the the lack of differentiation in QP between the cheapest and most expensive economy fares incredibly unfair and counterproductive. Yes, BA also has a single earnings QP in F/J but not in Y, where the price point in tickets can be huge between the cheapest tariffs and full flex Y. The latter should be rewarded beyond award miles. Feel very sorry for the SH road warriors who are limited by corp policy to Y but often book expensive last minute tickets. LH should love these customers as they get significant incremental revenue for no additional service. Instead they are being slapped in the face, and effectively told they don't even deserve easy access to the already quite bare bones / crowded business lounges, etc. Very interested to see how this strategy plays out for them.
As an aside I find the the lack of differentiation in QP between the cheapest and most expensive economy fares incredibly unfair and counterproductive. Yes, BA also has a single earnings QP in F/J but not in Y, where the price point in tickets can be huge between the cheapest tariffs and full flex Y. The latter should be rewarded beyond award miles. Feel very sorry for the SH road warriors who are limited by corp policy to Y but often book expensive last minute tickets. LH should love these customers as they get significant incremental revenue for no additional service. Instead they are being slapped in the face, and effectively told they don't even deserve easy access to the already quite bare bones / crowded business lounges, etc. Very interested to see how this strategy plays out for them.
Nov 24, 2019, 5:50 am
#680
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: LH M&M, BA EC, DL SM
Posts: 5,751
Most here don’t buy full fare F most of the time A took a really bad hit when the award miles change to revenue based and another one with the status devaluation now. Not good and doubt the people flying lots of cheap short-hauls are better for LH.
Nov 24, 2019, 5:54 am
#681
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: LH M&M, BA EC, DL SM
Posts: 5,751
Surprised you are surprised, as you should know better.
Quite a bit of my travel on LH F-tickets doesn’t give me HON miles (under the current system), as there is no LH Group Metal to the places I have to go to. I.e. I make SEN easily, but never HON.
Quite a bit of my travel on LH F-tickets doesn’t give me HON miles (under the current system), as there is no LH Group Metal to the places I have to go to. I.e. I make SEN easily, but never HON.
Nov 24, 2019, 6:07 am
#682
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
Apologies if this has been clarified before because I didn't see it upthread. Is it 100% certain that only historic Star Points will count towards LT status? Obviously this would be in addition to any future QP earned when the programme changes. I only ask because that seems more than a little unfair given that not all FTL's and SEN's are equal earnings wise in any given year. I must admit that I also have a selfish interest because I had a few fantastic SEN years when I was not far off HON. So if there was a retrospective QP component in addition to Star Points it would make LT status more achievable. I assume I am answering my own naive question and LH have no reason to be unduly generous for past behaviour...
As an aside I find the the lack of differentiation in QP between the cheapest and most expensive economy fares incredibly unfair and counterproductive. Yes, BA also has a single earnings QP in F/J but not in Y, where the price point in tickets can be huge between the cheapest tariffs and full flex Y. The latter should be rewarded beyond award miles. Feel very sorry for the SH road warriors who are limited by corp policy to Y but often book expensive last minute tickets. LH should love these customers as they get significant incremental revenue for no additional service. Instead they are being slapped in the face, and effectively told they don't even deserve easy access to the already quite bare bones / crowded business lounges, etc. Very interested to see how this strategy plays out for them.
Looking west though, a mile is a mile and segment is a segment was a logic for American program elite level qualification regardless of fare classes and distances even.
With a 5k miles long haul stretch as basis, it's 2.5 F(A) trips (with feeders) for SEN. Under the new system it's 3 trips. I may be desensitized by all the enhancements over the years, but this does not seem that bad.
Nov 24, 2019, 6:22 am
#683
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London, Paris
Programs: LH HON, AF Platinum
Posts: 2,001
Nov 24, 2019, 7:02 am
#684
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Capetown
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG and Hilton Diamond, LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 10,170
It was one of the three leading strategy consulting firms. Happened twice a year when the German Partners would all want to use the same flight to our global Partner meeting.
Similar bumping scenes affecting status holders I only observe on the 7am EK flight DXB-RUH where everybody is Platinum or Gold, and the Silvers bite the dust.
Similar bumping scenes affecting status holders I only observe on the 7am EK flight DXB-RUH where everybody is Platinum or Gold, and the Silvers bite the dust.
Nov 24, 2019, 7:09 am
#685
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Usually seat 1A, home:Tallinn
Programs: LH -- HON Circle **, IHG Spire Elite, Hilton Diamond, 1865 Voyager
Posts: 470
I know also much smaller companies, who do not allow important members to fly on same plane. Just due security.
Nov 24, 2019, 7:50 am
#686
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: LH HON
Posts: 3,430
on cheaper departure countries, that’s obviously a different story
Nov 24, 2019, 9:57 am
#687
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
On the other hand, if you have >1,000, losing a plane-full is obviously an enormous tragedy, but the firm isn't wiped out. Given the very low probability of that happening, I guess the firm can live with it.
Nov 24, 2019, 12:34 pm
#688
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: LH M&M, BA EC, DL SM
Posts: 5,751
Yes, but FRA-BKK-SYD in F gives you only 70 qualifying points each way, which also means only 70 of the 10.000 towards LT SEN.
Some win, some lose, but the change of the system comes at a very bad time for me (considering previous status, age, flight profile).
10 years of SEN and 1,000,000 status miles when I turn 60, i.e. the current system, would have been a walk in the proverbial park for me.
Nov 24, 2019, 2:19 pm
#689
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London, Paris
Programs: LH HON, AF Platinum
Posts: 2,001
True, but if you have >1,000 partners who all want to go to a place where there aren't that many flights, having a max of three on any flight would make that impossible.
On the other hand, if you have >1,000, losing a plane-full is obviously an enormous tragedy, but the firm isn't wiped out. Given the very low probability of that happening, I guess the firm can live with it.
On the other hand, if you have >1,000, losing a plane-full is obviously an enormous tragedy, but the firm isn't wiped out. Given the very low probability of that happening, I guess the firm can live with it.