Community
Wiki Posts
Search

LH to take over 100% of SN

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 18, 2020, 4:50 am
  #106  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,753
Originally Posted by FlyerLX
... OS I can't explain- they have been very unsuccessful too. LX has been highly successful, and has built on its tradition over the decades of high quality. It's a really strong brand in its own right- merging it would make little sense. ...
That's why I am more than somewhat surprised that SWISS is destroying its brand and generally doing things to make it a lot less loved than before. It's not a "low cost" carrier and never will be one. But in Geneva they are trying to turn it into one in order to compete with easyJet. I predict that will ultimately fail. As I have posted elsewhere, I don't book with SWISS any more (unless it is for the short hops I most often do, such as GVA-NCE or ZRH-DUS). It's so inconsistent in all 3 classes, more often downright poor than not, that I prefer to take my chances with other airlines and try to do most flying and keep my top status with Skyteam now.
Concerto is offline  
Old Jul 18, 2020, 5:29 am
  #107  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: Star Alliance Gold, Oneworld Silver
Posts: 817
Originally Posted by Concerto
That's why I am more than somewhat surprised that SWISS is destroying its brand and generally doing things to make it a lot less loved than before. It's not a "low cost" carrier and never will be one. But in Geneva they are trying to turn it into one in order to compete with easyJet. I predict that will ultimately fail.
Well this is a common trend- trying to be low cost in the back and still premium in the front. There are many examples of this. On at least some shorthaul BA flights from LGW (and maybe from LHR now too, I do my best never to fly with them) you see one poor cabin crew doing the whole of Business class (meal such as it is, drinks, clearing away, everything) while the other two (only) are racing through the back trying to sell as much as they can from the BoB trolley. And even while it's much better on LH, in European business cabins they often almost throw the meal tray and a quick drink out as if feeding penguins, then rush to help colleagues in the back. While it's unfair to blame cabin crew for being underpaid and overworked, a lot does seem to depend on the individual crew on the day: some P1s just decide they want business done "properly" and organise things differently.
hugolover likes this.
FlyerLX is offline  
Old Jul 19, 2020, 9:31 pm
  #108  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: MIA, VIE and DPS
Programs: DL Plat 1MM, AA EXP 3MM, SQ Krisflyer Gold, UA Silver, Marriott LTT, HH Gold
Posts: 1,137
Originally Posted by FlyerLX
Well this is a common trend- trying to be low cost in the back and still premium in the front. There are many examples of this. On at least some shorthaul BA flights from LGW (and maybe from LHR now too, I do my best never to fly with them) you see one poor cabin crew doing the whole of Business class (meal such as it is, drinks, clearing away, everything) while the other two (only) are racing through the back trying to sell as much as they can from the BoB trolley. And even while it's much better on LH, in European business cabins they often almost throw the meal tray and a quick drink out as if feeding penguins, then rush to help colleagues in the back. While it's unfair to blame cabin crew for being underpaid and overworked, a lot does seem to depend on the individual crew on the day: some P1s just decide they want business done "properly" and organise things differently.
is there such a thing like good business class in Europe? I only know bad and really bad.
flying_geek is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2020, 3:08 pm
  #109  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,753
A good Business class is SUN-AIR Economy class (a British Airways franchise).
Concerto is offline  
Old Jul 22, 2020, 7:23 am
  #110  
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,744
Oh well, time to keep the wet dream of Sabena joining another alliance (or even becoming a stand alone) for another day: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/l...-about-future/
oliver2002 is offline  
Old Jul 22, 2020, 9:40 am
  #111  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,753
I don't believe it. I mean, I do believe it, it's staring me in the face...but I don't believe it.
I mean, if Alitalia can do it, then they can, why not?
Concerto is offline  
Old Jul 22, 2020, 10:03 am
  #112  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 4,243
The Belgian Government getting 2 seats on the board does imply some extent of capital participation and not just a loan. It also sounds like the concern will revert to the Belgian Government if the assurances are not kept or if Lufthansa manages the airline into the ground. I am not sure I am a fan of maintaining the "status-quo" in an enterprise which was already effectively failing before the pandemic. And, I am not sure I see any changes possible within this framework to change that course. Perhaps I'll be surprised.
Tafflyer is offline  
Old Jul 22, 2020, 12:58 pm
  #113  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: AMS/RTM
Posts: 2,829
Originally Posted by Concerto
I don't believe it. I mean, I do believe it, it's staring me in the face...but I don't believe it.
I mean, if Alitalia can do it, then they can, why not?
Let me offer you my pure and unadulterated speculation: SN, Zaventem airport, Brussels, flight paths and everything revolving around the airline industry in Belgium has always been a point of contention between regional powers. It's Brussels airport but it's in Flanders, thus its economy is fully dependent from the Flemish government. This in a situation where the most hard-line Brussels politicians were thinking of introducing a toll for Flemish workers who would come to work in Brussels. The sectarianism is mind boggling.

So even on a federal level it's hard to find a complete support for the operation as it is now.

Add in the efforts made by Wallonia in developing CRL and LGG, and it's hard not to see an opportunity by the French speaking part of the country to weaken the Dutch speaking part's stronghold on aviation in Belgium.

In Italy AZ has universal support, when you go beyond the façade of political posturing.
malmostoso is offline  
Old Jul 22, 2020, 3:58 pm
  #114  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: Star Alliance Gold, Oneworld Silver
Posts: 817
Originally Posted by malmostoso
Let me offer you my pure and unadulterated speculation: SN, Zaventem airport, Brussels, flight paths and everything revolving around the airline industry in Belgium has always been a point of contention between regional powers. It's Brussels airport but it's in Flanders, thus its economy is fully dependent from the Flemish government. This in a situation where the most hard-line Brussels politicians were thinking of introducing a toll for Flemish workers who would come to work in Brussels. The sectarianism is mind boggling.

So even on a federal level it's hard to find a complete support for the operation as it is now.

Add in the efforts made by Wallonia in developing CRL and LGG, and it's hard not to see an opportunity by the French speaking part of the country to weaken the Dutch speaking part's stronghold on aviation in Belgium.

In Italy AZ has universal support, when you go beyond the façade of political posturing.
Well the “communautaire” aspects of Belgian public and political life are all too well-known... Interesting to think that the Walloon and/or Brussels administrations may have been less than willing to see a newly independent or re-energised SN. It could be true- SN (like the old Sabena from the 70s/80s onwards) seems to have a majority of Flemish staff- logically, many would argue, given the location of Zaventem in Flemish Brabant, and the fact that the tradition of multilingualism has always been stronger in Flanders than in Wallonia- no offence to the many bilingual Walloons who may be reading!!

But whatever the reason for LH’s decision, I hope it doesn’t regret its decision to stand by SN. I think it may be a mistake in the long run because I don’t see an opportunity for SN to be successful. As you indicate, it’s a national symbol in a country where regional focus often outweighs national considerations. And I have already given my opinion on the (lack of) SN service ethic and the ragbag route network. Maybe things will change for the better now- I hope so. Time will tell...
Dave_C likes this.

Last edited by FlyerLX; Jul 23, 2020 at 1:55 am
FlyerLX is offline  
Old Jul 23, 2020, 1:29 am
  #115  
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,744
Air Belgium is also going strong in CRL...
oliver2002 is offline  
Old Jul 23, 2020, 2:08 am
  #116  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: Star Alliance Gold, Oneworld Silver
Posts: 817
Originally Posted by oliver2002
Air Belgium is also going strong in CRL...
So maybe we will see Belgische luchtvaartmaatschappij in Flanders and ligne aérienne belge in Wallonia. Of course we would then need separate airlines for Brussels and for the German-speaking east...

Four national airlines!! Great!! And so we see how Belgian aviation can conquer the world!!😊
Dover2Golf likes this.
FlyerLX is offline  
Old May 19, 2021, 12:49 am
  #117  
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,744
It seems SN is now to be fully integrated into the LHG universe, taking over the LHG activities for Africa too:

Lufthansa Group bereitet den Weg für Brussels Airlines als neuem Mitglied der Hub-Familie

Seit 2016 vollwertiges Mitglied der Lufthansa Group beginnt Brussels Airlines nach SWISS und Austrian Airlines nun als vierte Hub-Airline die kommerzielle Integration auf Ebene der Lufthansa Group und bringt ein fünftes Drehkreuz im großen Einzugsgebiet von Brüssel ein.

Die erste Umsetzungsphase des Projekts “Dotted Moon”, das auf das Logo der Fluggesellschaft anspielt, ist soeben gestartet, um die kommerziellen Welten von Brussels Airlines und der Lufthansa Group zusammenzubringen und ein nachhaltiges Geschäftsmodell für Brussels Airlines innerhalb der Lufthansa Group zu schaffen. “Mit Dotted Moon verbinden wir unsere Organisation, unsere Mitarbeiter und unsere Prozesse auf intelligente Weise mit der Welt der Lufthansa Group. Durch Harmonisierung und Modernisierung stärken wir unsere Geschäftsprozesse und fördern das gemeinsame Unternehmertum”, sagt Nina Öwerdieck, CFO Brussels Airlines.

Vorteile für die Lufthansa Group und für Brussels Airlines

Die Lufthansa Group und Brussels Airlines werden gestärkt und profitieren gleichermaßen von dieser Integration. Während eine engere Zusammenarbeit gemeinsame Standards der Lufthansa Group, robuste Prozesse und Skaleneffekte in der gesamten Gruppe sicherstellt, fungiert Brussels Airlines als kleinere Fluggesellschaft als Innovator für Initiativen der Lufthansa Group, etwa als First Mover bei der neuen Airline.com- und mobilen App-Lösung (adc evolution project). Darüber hinaus bringt Brussels Airlines die Afrika-Expertise als fehlendes Puzzlestück für die Lufthansa Group ein und leitet im Auftrag der Lufthansa Group das afrikanische Kompetenzzentrum in Brüssel. “Brussels Airlines wird nicht nur ihre bekannte Expertise in die afrikanischen Märkte einbringen, sondern auch ein breites Verständnis dafür, wie man in einem sehr dynamischen Marktumfeld mit Low-Cost-Carriern konkurriert”, sagt Marcus Frank, Projektsponsor Lufthansa Group.

Gleichzeitig bietet die Lufthansa Group Zugang zu den weltweiten Märkten und ermöglicht einen einheitlichen kundenzentrierten Ansatz innerhalb der Hub-Carrier. Dies wird zu erweiterten und harmonisierten Angeboten führen, die ein nahtloses Kundenerlebnis durch eine einheitliche Online-Buchungslandschaft gewährleisten. Harmonisierte Angebote für Flüge und Ancillaries werden zudem die Marktposition der Lufthansa Group stärken.

Wo wir stehen

Die Integration der kommerziellen Kernfunktionen von Brussels Airlines in die Lufthansa Group ist bereits teilweise umgesetzt. Die Brussels Airlines Organisation berichtet an die Lufthansa Group und übernimmt schrittweise die Verantwortung für den Heimatmarkt Belgien und Subsahara-Afrika für den Konzern. Im April haben der Vorstand der Lufthansa Group und der Verwaltungsrat der SN Airholding ihre Zustimmung gegeben, den Roll-out von Dotted Moon bis Ende 2023 weiterzuführen.Die Zustimmung folgt auf eine erfolgreiche Vorbereitungsphase, in der die Integration nicht nur geplant, sondern auch teilweise bereits umgesetzt wurde, zum Beispiel in der Lufthansa Group Sales Organisation (AX), Lufthansa Group Network & Fleet Organisation (AN) und in der Lufthansa Group Partnerships Organisation (AN/P). Die aktuelle Projektphase konzentriert sich auf die Migration der notwendigen IT-Mindestausstattung, um einen schrittweisen Übergang der Abläufe bis März 2022 zu ermöglichen. Betroffen sind ausgewählte Bereiche des Channel Managements (AD), Customer Experience (AE) und Loyalty and Ancillary Services (AL). Im kommerziellen Angebot (AS) wird das Pricing Home Market Belgium und Point of Commencement Sub-Saharan Africa im Auftrag der vier Lufthansa Group Carrier von Brüssel aus gesteuert.

“Die Integration eines vierten Carriers in die Lufthansa Group-Matrix ist mehr als nur das Hinzufügen einer weiteren Airline”, sagt Malte Haut, Programmmanager der Lufthansa Group. “Genau wie in einer Wohngemeinschaft hat jedes Mitglied bestimmte Aufgaben und Funktionen, damit das Ganze funktioniert.” Und genau wie in einer Wohngemeinschaft funktioniert die Integration nicht ohne Anpassung. Das gilt nicht nur für Prozesse, Tools und Daten, sondern auch für die Menschen in der Organisation. “Ich freue mich, dass wir mit der Integration von Brussels Airlines in den Lufthansa-Konzern ein hochqualifiziertes Team von Kollegen gewinnen, die es gewohnt sind, in hohem Tempo zu arbeiten”, ergänzt Marcus Frank.

Von April 2022 bis Dezember 2023 wird der Fokus darauf liegen, die Lücken in der IT-Plattform zu schließen und die Commercial IT-Teams in die GI-Organisation zu integrieren, sobald der größte Teil der Migration in die Anwendungen der Lufthansa Group abgeschlossen ist.Bis Ende 2023 werden alle kaufmännischen Anwendungen aufeinander abgestimmt sein, wodurch die volle Wirksamkeit der Prozesse der Lufthansa Group erreicht wird und die Integration der kaufmännischen Funktionen abgeschlossen ist.
Also interesting is that they are the pilot for the new LH Group app. Took a look last night and the version live is rather rudimentray but I like the new booking engine.
oliver2002 is offline  
Old May 19, 2021, 5:29 am
  #118  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,753
So that doesn't mean they're going to close, as suggested elsewhere. Unless they lose their brand and identity.
Concerto is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2021, 9:12 pm
  #119  
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,744
SN is getting a rebranding:
https://welovebrussels.org/2021/11/b...ines-new-logo/




OO-SSO, an A319 is currently getting a paintjob in EMA and will be the launch of the branding this Thursday
oliver2002 is offline  
Old Nov 15, 2021, 5:37 am
  #120  
Suspended
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: London
Programs: *A G, OW S.
Posts: 996
How uninspiring!

Then I suppose that fits the bill with Brussels Airlines.
lhrpete likes this.
Dover2Golf is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.