LH to take over 100% of SN

Old Jul 18, 2020, 4:50 am
  #106  
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Originally Posted by FlyerLX
... OS I can't explain- they have been very unsuccessful too. LX has been highly successful, and has built on its tradition over the decades of high quality. It's a really strong brand in its own right- merging it would make little sense. ...
That's why I am more than somewhat surprised that SWISS is destroying its brand and generally doing things to make it a lot less loved than before. It's not a "low cost" carrier and never will be one. But in Geneva they are trying to turn it into one in order to compete with easyJet. I predict that will ultimately fail. As I have posted elsewhere, I don't book with SWISS any more (unless it is for the short hops I most often do, such as GVA-NCE or ZRH-DUS). It's so inconsistent in all 3 classes, more often downright poor than not, that I prefer to take my chances with other airlines and try to do most flying and keep my top status with Skyteam now.
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Old Jul 18, 2020, 5:29 am
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Originally Posted by Concerto
That's why I am more than somewhat surprised that SWISS is destroying its brand and generally doing things to make it a lot less loved than before. It's not a "low cost" carrier and never will be one. But in Geneva they are trying to turn it into one in order to compete with easyJet. I predict that will ultimately fail.
Well this is a common trend- trying to be low cost in the back and still premium in the front. There are many examples of this. On at least some shorthaul BA flights from LGW (and maybe from LHR now too, I do my best never to fly with them) you see one poor cabin crew doing the whole of Business class (meal such as it is, drinks, clearing away, everything) while the other two (only) are racing through the back trying to sell as much as they can from the BoB trolley. And even while it's much better on LH, in European business cabins they often almost throw the meal tray and a quick drink out as if feeding penguins, then rush to help colleagues in the back. While it's unfair to blame cabin crew for being underpaid and overworked, a lot does seem to depend on the individual crew on the day: some P1s just decide they want business done "properly" and organise things differently.
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Old Jul 19, 2020, 9:31 pm
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Originally Posted by FlyerLX
Well this is a common trend- trying to be low cost in the back and still premium in the front. There are many examples of this. On at least some shorthaul BA flights from LGW (and maybe from LHR now too, I do my best never to fly with them) you see one poor cabin crew doing the whole of Business class (meal such as it is, drinks, clearing away, everything) while the other two (only) are racing through the back trying to sell as much as they can from the BoB trolley. And even while it's much better on LH, in European business cabins they often almost throw the meal tray and a quick drink out as if feeding penguins, then rush to help colleagues in the back. While it's unfair to blame cabin crew for being underpaid and overworked, a lot does seem to depend on the individual crew on the day: some P1s just decide they want business done "properly" and organise things differently.
is there such a thing like good business class in Europe? I only know bad and really bad.
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Old Jul 20, 2020, 3:08 pm
  #109  
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A good Business class is SUN-AIR Economy class (a British Airways franchise).
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Old Jul 22, 2020, 7:23 am
  #110  
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Oh well, time to keep the wet dream of Sabena joining another alliance (or even becoming a stand alone) for another day: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/l...-about-future/
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Old Jul 22, 2020, 9:40 am
  #111  
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I don't believe it. I mean, I do believe it, it's staring me in the face...but I don't believe it.
I mean, if Alitalia can do it, then they can, why not?
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Old Jul 22, 2020, 10:03 am
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The Belgian Government getting 2 seats on the board does imply some extent of capital participation and not just a loan. It also sounds like the concern will revert to the Belgian Government if the assurances are not kept or if Lufthansa manages the airline into the ground. I am not sure I am a fan of maintaining the "status-quo" in an enterprise which was already effectively failing before the pandemic. And, I am not sure I see any changes possible within this framework to change that course. Perhaps I'll be surprised.
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Old Jul 22, 2020, 12:58 pm
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Originally Posted by Concerto
I don't believe it. I mean, I do believe it, it's staring me in the face...but I don't believe it.
I mean, if Alitalia can do it, then they can, why not?
Let me offer you my pure and unadulterated speculation: SN, Zaventem airport, Brussels, flight paths and everything revolving around the airline industry in Belgium has always been a point of contention between regional powers. It's Brussels airport but it's in Flanders, thus its economy is fully dependent from the Flemish government. This in a situation where the most hard-line Brussels politicians were thinking of introducing a toll for Flemish workers who would come to work in Brussels. The sectarianism is mind boggling.

So even on a federal level it's hard to find a complete support for the operation as it is now.

Add in the efforts made by Wallonia in developing CRL and LGG, and it's hard not to see an opportunity by the French speaking part of the country to weaken the Dutch speaking part's stronghold on aviation in Belgium.

In Italy AZ has universal support, when you go beyond the faade of political posturing.
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Old Jul 22, 2020, 3:58 pm
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Originally Posted by malmostoso
Let me offer you my pure and unadulterated speculation: SN, Zaventem airport, Brussels, flight paths and everything revolving around the airline industry in Belgium has always been a point of contention between regional powers. It's Brussels airport but it's in Flanders, thus its economy is fully dependent from the Flemish government. This in a situation where the most hard-line Brussels politicians were thinking of introducing a toll for Flemish workers who would come to work in Brussels. The sectarianism is mind boggling.

So even on a federal level it's hard to find a complete support for the operation as it is now.

Add in the efforts made by Wallonia in developing CRL and LGG, and it's hard not to see an opportunity by the French speaking part of the country to weaken the Dutch speaking part's stronghold on aviation in Belgium.

In Italy AZ has universal support, when you go beyond the faade of political posturing.
Well the communautaire aspects of Belgian public and political life are all too well-known... Interesting to think that the Walloon and/or Brussels administrations may have been less than willing to see a newly independent or re-energised SN. It could be true- SN (like the old Sabena from the 70s/80s onwards) seems to have a majority of Flemish staff- logically, many would argue, given the location of Zaventem in Flemish Brabant, and the fact that the tradition of multilingualism has always been stronger in Flanders than in Wallonia- no offence to the many bilingual Walloons who may be reading!!

But whatever the reason for LHs decision, I hope it doesnt regret its decision to stand by SN. I think it may be a mistake in the long run because I dont see an opportunity for SN to be successful. As you indicate, its a national symbol in a country where regional focus often outweighs national considerations. And I have already given my opinion on the (lack of) SN service ethic and the ragbag route network. Maybe things will change for the better now- I hope so. Time will tell...
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Last edited by FlyerLX; Jul 23, 2020 at 1:55 am
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Old Jul 23, 2020, 1:29 am
  #115  
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Air Belgium is also going strong in CRL...
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Old Jul 23, 2020, 2:08 am
  #116  
 
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Originally Posted by oliver2002
Air Belgium is also going strong in CRL...
So maybe we will see Belgische luchtvaartmaatschappij in Flanders and ligne arienne belge in Wallonia. Of course we would then need separate airlines for Brussels and for the German-speaking east...

Four national airlines!! Great!! And so we see how Belgian aviation can conquer the world!!😊
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Old May 19, 2021, 12:49 am
  #117  
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It seems SN is now to be fully integrated into the LHG universe, taking over the LHG activities for Africa too:

Lufthansa Group bereitet den Weg fr Brussels Airlines als neuem Mitglied der Hub-Familie

Seit 2016 vollwertiges Mitglied der Lufthansa Group beginnt Brussels Airlines nach SWISS und Austrian Airlines nun als vierte Hub-Airline die kommerzielle Integration auf Ebene der Lufthansa Group und bringt ein fnftes Drehkreuz im groen Einzugsgebiet von Brssel ein.

Die erste Umsetzungsphase des Projekts Dotted Moon, das auf das Logo der Fluggesellschaft anspielt, ist soeben gestartet, um die kommerziellen Welten von Brussels Airlines und der Lufthansa Group zusammenzubringen und ein nachhaltiges Geschftsmodell fr Brussels Airlines innerhalb der Lufthansa Group zu schaffen. Mit Dotted Moon verbinden wir unsere Organisation, unsere Mitarbeiter und unsere Prozesse auf intelligente Weise mit der Welt der Lufthansa Group. Durch Harmonisierung und Modernisierung strken wir unsere Geschftsprozesse und frdern das gemeinsame Unternehmertum, sagt Nina werdieck, CFO Brussels Airlines.

Vorteile fr die Lufthansa Group und fr Brussels Airlines

Die Lufthansa Group und Brussels Airlines werden gestrkt und profitieren gleichermaen von dieser Integration. Whrend eine engere Zusammenarbeit gemeinsame Standards der Lufthansa Group, robuste Prozesse und Skaleneffekte in der gesamten Gruppe sicherstellt, fungiert Brussels Airlines als kleinere Fluggesellschaft als Innovator fr Initiativen der Lufthansa Group, etwa als First Mover bei der neuen Airline.com- und mobilen App-Lsung (adc evolution project). Darber hinaus bringt Brussels Airlines die Afrika-Expertise als fehlendes Puzzlestck fr die Lufthansa Group ein und leitet im Auftrag der Lufthansa Group das afrikanische Kompetenzzentrum in Brssel. Brussels Airlines wird nicht nur ihre bekannte Expertise in die afrikanischen Mrkte einbringen, sondern auch ein breites Verstndnis dafr, wie man in einem sehr dynamischen Marktumfeld mit Low-Cost-Carriern konkurriert, sagt Marcus Frank, Projektsponsor Lufthansa Group.

Gleichzeitig bietet die Lufthansa Group Zugang zu den weltweiten Mrkten und ermglicht einen einheitlichen kundenzentrierten Ansatz innerhalb der Hub-Carrier. Dies wird zu erweiterten und harmonisierten Angeboten fhren, die ein nahtloses Kundenerlebnis durch eine einheitliche Online-Buchungslandschaft gewhrleisten. Harmonisierte Angebote fr Flge und Ancillaries werden zudem die Marktposition der Lufthansa Group strken.

Wo wir stehen

Die Integration der kommerziellen Kernfunktionen von Brussels Airlines in die Lufthansa Group ist bereits teilweise umgesetzt. Die Brussels Airlines Organisation berichtet an die Lufthansa Group und bernimmt schrittweise die Verantwortung fr den Heimatmarkt Belgien und Subsahara-Afrika fr den Konzern. Im April haben der Vorstand der Lufthansa Group und der Verwaltungsrat der SN Airholding ihre Zustimmung gegeben, den Roll-out von Dotted Moon bis Ende 2023 weiterzufhren.Die Zustimmung folgt auf eine erfolgreiche Vorbereitungsphase, in der die Integration nicht nur geplant, sondern auch teilweise bereits umgesetzt wurde, zum Beispiel in der Lufthansa Group Sales Organisation (AX), Lufthansa Group Network & Fleet Organisation (AN) und in der Lufthansa Group Partnerships Organisation (AN/P). Die aktuelle Projektphase konzentriert sich auf die Migration der notwendigen IT-Mindestausstattung, um einen schrittweisen bergang der Ablufe bis Mrz 2022 zu ermglichen. Betroffen sind ausgewhlte Bereiche des Channel Managements (AD), Customer Experience (AE) und Loyalty and Ancillary Services (AL). Im kommerziellen Angebot (AS) wird das Pricing Home Market Belgium und Point of Commencement Sub-Saharan Africa im Auftrag der vier Lufthansa Group Carrier von Brssel aus gesteuert.

Die Integration eines vierten Carriers in die Lufthansa Group-Matrix ist mehr als nur das Hinzufgen einer weiteren Airline, sagt Malte Haut, Programmmanager der Lufthansa Group. Genau wie in einer Wohngemeinschaft hat jedes Mitglied bestimmte Aufgaben und Funktionen, damit das Ganze funktioniert. Und genau wie in einer Wohngemeinschaft funktioniert die Integration nicht ohne Anpassung. Das gilt nicht nur fr Prozesse, Tools und Daten, sondern auch fr die Menschen in der Organisation. Ich freue mich, dass wir mit der Integration von Brussels Airlines in den Lufthansa-Konzern ein hochqualifiziertes Team von Kollegen gewinnen, die es gewohnt sind, in hohem Tempo zu arbeiten, ergnzt Marcus Frank.

Von April 2022 bis Dezember 2023 wird der Fokus darauf liegen, die Lcken in der IT-Plattform zu schlieen und die Commercial IT-Teams in die GI-Organisation zu integrieren, sobald der grte Teil der Migration in die Anwendungen der Lufthansa Group abgeschlossen ist.Bis Ende 2023 werden alle kaufmnnischen Anwendungen aufeinander abgestimmt sein, wodurch die volle Wirksamkeit der Prozesse der Lufthansa Group erreicht wird und die Integration der kaufmnnischen Funktionen abgeschlossen ist.
Also interesting is that they are the pilot for the new LH Group app. Took a look last night and the version live is rather rudimentray but I like the new booking engine.
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Old May 19, 2021, 5:29 am
  #118  
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So that doesn't mean they're going to close, as suggested elsewhere. Unless they lose their brand and identity.
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Old Nov 14, 2021, 9:12 pm
  #119  
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SN is getting a rebranding:
https://welovebrussels.org/2021/11/b...ines-new-logo/




OO-SSO, an A319 is currently getting a paintjob in EMA and will be the launch of the branding this Thursday
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Old Nov 15, 2021, 5:37 am
  #120  
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How uninspiring!

Then I suppose that fits the bill with Brussels Airlines.
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