LH to take over 100% of SN
Feb 5, 2018, 1:39 pm
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,593
I was thinking Gustin did quite a good job given they have some very thirsty old A330s, an extremely competitive SH market in Belgium and their core Africa market is under big pressure from within Star and even KL.
The answer is not more regulation but encouraging competition by freeing up regulation. Brussels (as in the EU) loves convergence, mergers, they don’t promote competition as the solution but to regulate more giving more federalism as the answer. I reject this. We don’t want a market like in the US. Carriers are very nationalistic things. Something the public love but the political class (& CEOs) completely misunderstand because like many things in the airline industry it’s impossible to appropriate the revenue that it provides.
It’s a slide to the bottom for SN to lose its Belgian identity and if I were Belgian I would find this disturbing. Down the road is just more flights to FRA and MUC because without the SH network there’s no feed at all. I’m sure bilateral in place between BE and African nations can be negotiated and flights moved to Germany which LH will argue is better because there will be more connection opportunities and those African nations are weak negotiating partners. Abolishing the SN brand (many elements of Sabena were kept and that’s why it’s still SN) will go down like a tonne of bricks in Africa with people asking who the heck EW are.
So I guess SN will leave Star, which is such a pity. I avoid EW. It’s a LCC or one of those high fares LCC.
The answer is not more regulation but encouraging competition by freeing up regulation. Brussels (as in the EU) loves convergence, mergers, they don’t promote competition as the solution but to regulate more giving more federalism as the answer. I reject this. We don’t want a market like in the US. Carriers are very nationalistic things. Something the public love but the political class (& CEOs) completely misunderstand because like many things in the airline industry it’s impossible to appropriate the revenue that it provides.
It’s a slide to the bottom for SN to lose its Belgian identity and if I were Belgian I would find this disturbing. Down the road is just more flights to FRA and MUC because without the SH network there’s no feed at all. I’m sure bilateral in place between BE and African nations can be negotiated and flights moved to Germany which LH will argue is better because there will be more connection opportunities and those African nations are weak negotiating partners. Abolishing the SN brand (many elements of Sabena were kept and that’s why it’s still SN) will go down like a tonne of bricks in Africa with people asking who the heck EW are.
So I guess SN will leave Star, which is such a pity. I avoid EW. It’s a LCC or one of those high fares LCC.
Feb 5, 2018, 2:12 pm
#47
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: SFO
Programs: OZ Diamond/*G, IHG Diamond Amb, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,262
So what the heck is actually happening?
https://press.brusselsairlines.com/n...ssels-airlines
All this really says is that they fired the CEO/CFO of SN. It also says "Brussels Airlines will remain a Belgian entity and continue to grow"....I'm not sure whether that means that all SN flights will become EW flights operated by SN and the SN brand will essentially disappear....which is what I thought they were intending, but it does seem odd to advertise it that way if indeed the SN brand is to disappear. I personally would support EW wet-leases if that made them more cost-effective, but I think going non-*A and getting rid of the SN brand completely is dumb, especially after they've announced what they've announced.
On another note, how long do you think it'll be before all of LH group's flights minus long haul trunk routes like FRA-JFK, FRA-LAX etc have moved to some non-*A subsidary.
https://press.brusselsairlines.com/n...ssels-airlines
All this really says is that they fired the CEO/CFO of SN. It also says "Brussels Airlines will remain a Belgian entity and continue to grow"....I'm not sure whether that means that all SN flights will become EW flights operated by SN and the SN brand will essentially disappear....which is what I thought they were intending, but it does seem odd to advertise it that way if indeed the SN brand is to disappear. I personally would support EW wet-leases if that made them more cost-effective, but I think going non-*A and getting rid of the SN brand completely is dumb, especially after they've announced what they've announced.
On another note, how long do you think it'll be before all of LH group's flights minus long haul trunk routes like FRA-JFK, FRA-LAX etc have moved to some non-*A subsidary.
Feb 5, 2018, 10:31 pm
#48
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: AMS/RTM
Posts: 2,833
I think we'll see the same as with SQ: the vast majority of short haul on MI with one or two flights per day per (high yielding) destination operated by SQ.
Feb 5, 2018, 10:52 pm
#49
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: SFO
Programs: OZ Diamond/*G, IHG Diamond Amb, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,262
SE Asia is a very different market to Europe, I'd argue EW is already worse than MI. SQ does not have flat beds on MI or Scoot; LH is installing flat beds on EW and already has Edelweiss. I guess Austrian will go EW next once they're done with SN (I recall a doc a couple years back where LH outlined their 2025 fleet plan and Austrian was nowhere to be seen).
Given they're not giving miles or bags on cheap fares and if people access lounges it's the partners who pay, why are they so eager to have just about every flight out of *A?
Given they're not giving miles or bags on cheap fares and if people access lounges it's the partners who pay, why are they so eager to have just about every flight out of *A?
Feb 6, 2018, 3:41 am
#50
Join Date: May 2014
Location: BRU
Programs: BA GGL, TK E (*G), ITA exec
Posts: 4,363
If it happens I will be very upset because there are no real decent alternatives for central & south Europe flights. I had already some antipathy for LH, now even more.
Feb 6, 2018, 4:59 am
#51
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,912
Its strange that SN staff and the Belgian public are amazed that LH is actually doing what they told everyone when they took over 100% of SN. 
That said I doubt they will convert the longhaul fleet into Longhaul Wings and strip it of the various premium elements. I'm assuming that network is bringing in a decent revenue, especially in the African market. My take is that the regional fleet will become EW op by SN with the cost platform that they implemented with E2 in Austria and Spain, and the longhaul will get a cost overhaul EW style with SN Branding and product.
That said I doubt they will convert the longhaul fleet into Longhaul Wings and strip it of the various premium elements. I'm assuming that network is bringing in a decent revenue, especially in the African market. My take is that the regional fleet will become EW op by SN with the cost platform that they implemented with E2 in Austria and Spain, and the longhaul will get a cost overhaul EW style with SN Branding and product.
Feb 6, 2018, 7:07 am
#52
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Location: Montreux CH
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I must say, I didn’t think SN is much of an airline and their European flights are pretty horrible. I haven’t tried them long haul and I recall Oliver2002 once reporting back about how good one of his flights.had been.
Feb 6, 2018, 7:33 am
#53
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SJJ/AMS
Posts: 4,649
), making the whole experience as pleasant as it can get for the above purpose G
Feb 6, 2018, 8:18 am
#54
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,912
Brussels regional has been a semi LCC operation since quite a while, which can be probably traced back to its roots as LCC from the EBA/Virgin Express days... remember the SN assets were merged with Brussels/Virgin in the late 00s. The regional market ex BRU is heavily contested and I doubt they earn much there in spite of the seemingly lucrative EU business. That said I don't think they have much legacy labor costs since the entire company went thru extensive reorganisation about 10 years ago.
Feb 6, 2018, 3:21 pm
#55
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Interesting comments and I agree about the excellent lounges in BRU. I still wouldn’t go out of my way to fly SN though (once flew them to get from GVA to BIO).
Feb 7, 2018, 2:09 pm
#57
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Location: Chicago, USA
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Feb 9, 2018, 5:18 am
#60
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: WAW
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Posts: 2,554
We will continue to have a Belgian company... and we will also continue to have a brand with a strong Belgian touch.