LH to take over 100% of SN
#92
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Originally Posted by Brussels Times
Lufthansa could let Brussels Airlines go bankrupt: reports
The Lufthansa group could let its subsidiary Brussels Airlines go bankrupt if no rescue agreement is reached with the Belgian government, La Libre reports.
Citing several inside sources, the Francophone newspaper said that the German company is no longer excluding the option of dropping Brussels Airlines and letting it file for bankruptcy.
The Lufthansa group could let its subsidiary Brussels Airlines go bankrupt if no rescue agreement is reached with the Belgian government, La Libre reports.
Citing several inside sources, the Francophone newspaper said that the German company is no longer excluding the option of dropping Brussels Airlines and letting it file for bankruptcy.
Last edited by irishguy28; Jun 19, 2020 at 4:43 am
#93
Join Date: May 2020
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Schedule for August will be revised due to unstable financial situation. As there is still no agreement with the Belgian gov, the situation is getting extremely precarious. Operational aircraft will be reduced for both short and longhaul routes.
Time will tell if 2001 will repeat itself.
More on that on vrt NWS (Dutch)
Time will tell if 2001 will repeat itself.
More on that on vrt NWS (Dutch)
#94
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Schedule for August will be revised due to unstable financial situation. As there is still no agreement with the Belgian gov, the situation is getting extremely precarious. Operational aircraft will be reduced for both short and longhaul routes.
Time will tell if 2001 will repeat itself.
More on that on vrt NWS (Dutch)
Time will tell if 2001 will repeat itself.
More on that on vrt NWS (Dutch)
As the article also says, the politicians have already set money aside for a rescue plan. So those politicians should now think carefully about whether their ongoing demands are realistic. They should ask themselves if LH are really going to issue guarantees on jobs, future hub status for BRU etc, when they have promised nothing similar to LX and OS. If De Croo and co. push too hard, LH may walk away. And what would happen next ? The Belgian federal government would have to pick up the pieces. What are those pieces ? It's worth remembering that the current Brussels Airlines route map is really just scraps of the old Sabena network: some African, some European, and a bit of sunshine stuff picked up from Virgin Express etc. Although the old Sabena is remembered affectionately by some (mainly its huge former workforce), it almost never made a profit and had a terrible reputation for arrogant, state airline customer service. So my feeling is that if a failed SN is thrown back to the Belgian federal government due to no deal with LH and bankruptcy, then LH won't lose much sleep. It's not as if any major airline needs Bamako and Cotonou on its network, and LH can still send plenty of A320s into Zaventem for connections. That will be fine for the Belgian home market such as it is, and pax from EU institutions hardly use SN anyway. It's worth noting that BUD is still perfectly well served after years without Malev.
On the other hand, bankruptcy would see the Belgian federal government facing a big dose of unemployment and the second failed flag carrier in 20 years. A nostalgic view of history may be pushing them to show their electorate that they are not taking instructions from the German national airline. They should overcome this outdated sentimentality and hand over the cash sooner rather than later.
#95
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Good post. I have no emotional attachment to Brussels Airlines whatsoever and I think it is just awful in terms of service inside and out, just like its predecessor, but I don't want to see it disappear. We need competition and diversity up there in the air, whatever people say, otherwise it will just be easyJet, Ryanair and Wizz. And really, who wants that, except their CEOs (and other well paid people)? We should do what we can to avoid Europe becoming like the US, because nothing could be worse than those carriers that operate there. Brussels won't survive without LH or being in an alliance, it will just go like VLM otherwise.
#96
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#97
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Being completely neutral on SN, having only flown them a limited number of times, I can only say that they were better than many but worse than some.
However, why do we all accept the assumption here that SN can only exist within the LH Group. I really cannot believe that that is in the best interests of the Belgian public or Government. LH Group would take the support of the Belgian Government and use it to the advantage of LH Group shareholders only. The German Government only provided aid with a capital participation. Why should the Belgian Government think differently?
It might possibly be the case that a controlled bankruptcy and either a Governement rescue, sale to another party or combination of the two is a better alternative and better serves SN’s passengers and the Belgian state.
However, why do we all accept the assumption here that SN can only exist within the LH Group. I really cannot believe that that is in the best interests of the Belgian public or Government. LH Group would take the support of the Belgian Government and use it to the advantage of LH Group shareholders only. The German Government only provided aid with a capital participation. Why should the Belgian Government think differently?
It might possibly be the case that a controlled bankruptcy and either a Governement rescue, sale to another party or combination of the two is a better alternative and better serves SN’s passengers and the Belgian state.
Last edited by Tafflyer; Jul 17, 2020 at 6:36 am
#98
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They might be better off with Air France KLM, but that will mean a Skyteam stranglehold on the Benelux and France. But since IAG is going to buy AirEuropa and create a quasi monopoly in the Iberian peninsula, that shouldn't matter. Maybe overall a better fit for Brussels Airlines would be with British Airways and IAG.
#99
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Would there be any other serious candidate to take SN as the sick patient of the LH Group ? If there wouldn't, maybe the Belgian state could have another attempt but it tried that for many decades with the old Sabena and we witnessed the result in 2001...
... Well, if the Belgian state keeps on as it is doing we may well find out. I hope you're right but as you see I remain a little doubtful...!
#100
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It's doubtful that there is really a role for a national Belgian airline- the train gets you to airports like CDG, CGN, FRA and AMS so quickly now. There is plenty of coverage without SN at Zaventem and probably still Charleroi and even Deurne a bit by LCC, P2P sunshine flights etc. And SN just isn't a brand which anyone has been able to warm to really. It's a pity, especially if you compare the really sovereign effort the staff at LX/Swissport have made in ZRH and GVA (and elsewhere) to promote their national carrier as a fabulous brand- so much it is now in a way the niche premium carrier of the group. SN staff at Zaventem (old Sabena and the new ones now) are instinctively sour and incredibly quick to tell you what they can't do to help you, and the network is made up of old bones. Maybe things will change.. As a fan of Belgium, I hope so !
Last edited by FlyerLX; Jul 17, 2020 at 2:48 pm
#102
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Sabena collapsed as Swiss did not fulfill their contractual obligations.
The problem with Sn , lufthansa played it very dirty. They even tried to merge it within Eurowings which has had a bigger loss.
Sn was never given a fair deal, despite making a profit for 4 years (15-18), till lh tried to eliminate Sn. Only if lh had delivered what was promised to Sn.
Lufthansa shall never dare to merge Lx or Os in Ew, then why with Sn?
Even today Sn has a very good presence in Africa , lh only wants the routes & traffic.
Lufthansa has shown time & again that it cannot be trusted.
Would be glad if it were nationalized or sold of to IAG .
The problem with Sn , lufthansa played it very dirty. They even tried to merge it within Eurowings which has had a bigger loss.
Sn was never given a fair deal, despite making a profit for 4 years (15-18), till lh tried to eliminate Sn. Only if lh had delivered what was promised to Sn.
Lufthansa shall never dare to merge Lx or Os in Ew, then why with Sn?
Even today Sn has a very good presence in Africa , lh only wants the routes & traffic.
Lufthansa has shown time & again that it cannot be trusted.
Would be glad if it were nationalized or sold of to IAG .
#103
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Well, many would agree with you. Many feel that SN has not been given a platform for success by LH... On the other hand LH has, I believe, argued that it needs to see a successful operation first before it will invest (further), otherwise it could be throwing good money after bad. As LH is a business answerable to its shareholders and not a Belgian job retention scheme, its stance has to be understandable.
Maybe Willy is interested, and maybe we will see it happen ! But for all the reasons I've suggested- I for one would be surprised...
Last edited by FlyerLX; Jul 17, 2020 at 2:54 pm
#104
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Actually many routes that were served by SN to Africa were profitable. Especially the ones to Kinshasa, Douala, Yaoundé and sometimes West-African cities Conakry, Freetown and Monrovia were full. If not, they filled the plane with goods in the cargo hold. In fact, Brussels Airport was a fairly good hub for American citizens travelling to/from "non-touristic" Africa. A lot of employers from SN were afraid that LH would take over those routes and let SN serve more flights to their own FRA/MUC hub. Luckily this was not executed by LH. However, the situation with SN does not look good. SN asked their employers to participate in a voluntary termination of their employment. They're hoping for at least 1000 people to leave and if not enough people leave, they'll probably have to fire employees. We all know that SN cannot survive without LH anymore and we can't be certain if the (temporary?!) Belgian government will actually fix the situation for SN. Swissport Belgium asked for help too and they went bankrupt in June, leaving 1600 employees on the street. All employees were notified 1 day beforehand by e-mail. It won't come to a surprise to me if the same happens in August or September for SN.
#105
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Maybe De Croo and co will wait for this to happen before handing over cash they have already earmarked. If job losses are inevitable, better from the federal government's point of view for them to happen before they hand over the cash than after... Otherwise it's "Thanks for your cash, now here's the list of job losses".