Pilot strikes in Autumn / Fall 2014
Sep 30, 2014, 3:46 am
#346
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You know that you're asking the impossible, right?
Pilot union says "we will strike tomorrow, none of our pilots will come to work"
LH knows that they still get X crew members to operate Y flights. They have by now quite a bit of experience which flights cancellations can easiest be made (hint: Those they can rebook via MUC/ZRH/VIE, or where other *A flights are available) - and they will cancel those. They won't just wait and see who is showing up for work and who isn't. That would be pure chaos, and lead to many more cancellation and worlds end situation at FRA and many outposts (due to people not knowing in advance their flights get cancelled etc.)
LH is doing the right thing. They know they get to operate some flights, and for those they can't operate due to the strike, they can find solution beforehand. I'm not supporting LH - in fact, anyone reading my comments on this message board knows I'm strongly disliking them for pretty much any enhancement done in the last years - but I'm on their side in this very case.
Demanding EU261 because of actions LH was forced to do by the Pilots is - in my personal view - a very bad thing.
LH should hand out EU261 more easily when they're indeed at fault, that's no question. But give them a break here.
Pilot union says "we will strike tomorrow, none of our pilots will come to work"
LH knows that they still get X crew members to operate Y flights. They have by now quite a bit of experience which flights cancellations can easiest be made (hint: Those they can rebook via MUC/ZRH/VIE, or where other *A flights are available) - and they will cancel those. They won't just wait and see who is showing up for work and who isn't. That would be pure chaos, and lead to many more cancellation and worlds end situation at FRA and many outposts (due to people not knowing in advance their flights get cancelled etc.)
LH is doing the right thing. They know they get to operate some flights, and for those they can't operate due to the strike, they can find solution beforehand. I'm not supporting LH - in fact, anyone reading my comments on this message board knows I'm strongly disliking them for pretty much any enhancement done in the last years - but I'm on their side in this very case.
Demanding EU261 because of actions LH was forced to do by the Pilots is - in my personal view - a very bad thing.
LH should hand out EU261 more easily when they're indeed at fault, that's no question. But give them a break here.
LH canceling flights before the cockpit crew no-shows and then immediately thereafter failing to proactively rebook/protect customers -- and sometimes even refusing to rebook customers over the phone unless the impacted customers show up to the airport for cancelled flights -- isn't going to win LH favors from every reasonable customer.
Sep 30, 2014, 3:49 am
#347
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,188
LH accepted the money to get the client from A to B on date X. If LH cannot get their house in order and deliver on the contract, there is definitely ground for compensation claim.
If I have a deadline on a project tomorrow, I cannot call my client today, tell him "I am sorry but my IT supplier failed to show up and I cannot complete my job on time" and expect him to be understanding and just roll with it. I signed the contract, I am the one who has to answer for it if I do not manage to deliver. Same with LH.
Sep 30, 2014, 4:10 am
#348
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
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LH canceling flights before the cockpit crew no-shows and then immediately thereafter failing to proactively rebook/protect customers -- and sometimes even refusing to rebook customers over the phone unless the impacted customers show up to the airport for cancelled flights -- isn't going to win LH favors from every reasonable customer.
I don't like LH, but they're doing the right thing here. Claiming EU261 on this grounds.. sorry, no!
Would you REALLY prefer LH not to make any preparations, and having the BIG BIG BIG chaos on strike day? In my personal opinion, that sounds crazy..
Sep 30, 2014, 4:14 am
#349
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: EFHK - HEL
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+1. This is getting a bit inconvenient to wait now, am I going to make it to ICN in LH business class. Two weeks to go.
Sep 30, 2014, 5:37 am
#350
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,188
Certainly their lines will be busy, and the queues will be there at the airport, but they've given it's agents (and customers) time to find for workable solutions, rather than having EVERYONE showing up at the airport in the morning, to find out a total chaos, with some pilots showing up, some not, and then having a crazy internal shuffle to "man" some planes, and basically having a total chaos in the ground.
At the end of the day, it is not about personal opinions, it is about a contract not being honoured and the counterparty being compensated accordingly.
Sep 30, 2014, 6:09 am
#351
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I'm not personally affected but if I were I'd rather know the evening before departure that my flight would be cancelled so I could try and make alternative arrangements than turn up at the airport to find they don't have the pilots to fly the plane and seek compensation.
Whatever the contract and rules say LH is doing the right thing under the circumstances.
Whatever the contract and rules say LH is doing the right thing under the circumstances.
Sep 30, 2014, 6:09 am
#352
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,813
I take it this is why there were 2 747s parked overnight in BOS?
Sep 30, 2014, 6:35 am
#353
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
...All this complexity creates absolutely zero value for the customer, it's just there for 1) historical/legacy reasons - management being too reluctant in the past to do real cuts, 2) political reasons - need to maintain separate carriers in order to keep slots, 3) labor policy reasons - need to create new entities in order to get around prohibitive labor costs at LH mainline. With such a structure it's just extremely hard to compete against others that don't have these issues (LCCs, ME3)...
I know that blaming the unions is well accepted by economists and streamline acceptance is as assured as are any marxist mantras by the other side. But saying that the management is not to be blamed is cryptic to any naive understanding.
The unions have such an easy game to claim the moral high ground because they can always draw the comparison to the actions and the remuneration of the management. And that is much alike harvesting free ammo.
I am flying Oct 5th ... so may be affected by the strike. I do not expect any proactive action or the chance to get hold of a phone agent. The former doesn't happen, the latter is non-empowered. Will just show up at the airport and score a rebooking if it happens.
Sep 30, 2014, 6:43 am
#354
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,188
Otherwise, what would be next? LH declining responsibility for damaged luggage because it was not them but the company they outsourced ground handling to that was at fault?
The passenger has a contract with LH. LH has to either deliver on it or face the eventual consequences.
Last edited by mmff; Sep 30, 2014 at 6:56 am Reason: Typo
Sep 30, 2014, 8:40 am
#356
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Champagne must be free flowing today at BA Waterside HDQ
First LH on strike, then AF, now LH again (plus more LH disruptions possibly coming)...
Regardless how terribly bad it sounds: BA example - who had its big fight against Unions in 2010 - shows that it really pays to break Union's power (but I am not sure if it is even al all possible under German Labor Law).
First LH on strike, then AF, now LH again (plus more LH disruptions possibly coming)...
Regardless how terribly bad it sounds: BA example - who had its big fight against Unions in 2010 - shows that it really pays to break Union's power (but I am not sure if it is even al all possible under German Labor Law).
Sep 30, 2014, 9:05 am
#357
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: VCE
Posts: 14,165
Champagne must be free flowing today at BA Waterside HDQ
First LH on strike, then AF, now LH again (plus more LH disruptions possibly coming)...
Regardless how terribly bad it sounds: BA example - who had its big fight against Unions in 2010 - shows that it really pays to break Union's power (but I am not sure if it is even al all possible under German Labor Law).
First LH on strike, then AF, now LH again (plus more LH disruptions possibly coming)...
Regardless how terribly bad it sounds: BA example - who had its big fight against Unions in 2010 - shows that it really pays to break Union's power (but I am not sure if it is even al all possible under German Labor Law).
Here I don't think the situation is to break Union power- the situation is about pensions which is a horribly complicated and for most mind numbing discussion- until your own pension is involved of course.
The YouTube video posted today by the CEO is not hitting the button as on channel and soundbite friendly nor messaging the way Mr. Walsh was able to a few years ago. While I realize this point may draw some cultural comparisons- that is not the intention- rather that when there are strikes and disruptions in 2014 the public (customers) expect to be kept up to date in a very timely manner with a variety of social and traditional media sources so they can understand what is going on.
Wall Street Journal Coverage on the Video:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/deuts...ike-1412077587
And the Video (YouTube link in article):
http://www.eturbonews.com/50921/stri...-carsten-spohr
Sep 30, 2014, 9:20 am
#358
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: How many more miles to 2MM? - TOO Many
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Yeah, my flight to HND is a go. Safe flying everyone.
Sep 30, 2014, 11:07 am
#359
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I'm not personally affected but if I were I'd rather know the evening before departure that my flight would be cancelled so I could try and make alternative arrangements than turn up at the airport to find they don't have the pilots to fly the plane and seek compensation.
Whatever the contract and rules say LH is doing the right thing under the circumstances.
Whatever the contract and rules say LH is doing the right thing under the circumstances.
Sep 30, 2014, 11:43 am
#360
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 361
Are you suggesting that these carriers don't have to deal with the same or comparably crooked politicians, that they do not have to deal with the same wanton regulation? And that ME carriers do not have to figh (dirtily almost like LH) for slots in DE? And that they are exempt from the curfews?
I know that blaming the unions is well accepted by economists and streamline acceptance is as assured as are any marxist mantras by the other side. But saying that the management is not to be blamed is cryptic to any naive understanding.
I know that blaming the unions is well accepted by economists and streamline acceptance is as assured as are any marxist mantras by the other side. But saying that the management is not to be blamed is cryptic to any naive understanding.
In unrelated news, a (male) LH pilot has just won a case in front of the highest German labor court (Bundesarbeitsgericht). He complained on grounds of discrimination as LH had mandated that he wears a bonnet, while female pilots don't have too. They must have really got time on their hands...