New Business Class coming to LH [merged]
Dec 3, 2011, 1:12 am
#151
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
A seat that comes close to any of today's fishbone designs, a soft counter facing design such as BA, let alone a convertible like SQ's would be a terrible threat for nearly all F installations LH runs.
In fact given the privacy and the superior video. I'd probably prefer an SQ C seat over LH's F (if it the wasn't for the fish eggs and the huge advantage of not having to see the painted Singa elves).
They fear themselves much more than they fear the competition. They fought the battle for coach successfully on the cost and not the quality side and where is any shred of evidence that the approach for Biz might be any different?
Dec 3, 2011, 3:15 am
#152
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: hamburg
Posts: 1,390
All past experience contradicts this. Vehemently. LH's key concern has always been that the segmentation between the classes is maximal and that C must not even be a remote threat for the overall F product.
A seat that comes close to any of today's fishbone designs, a soft counter facing design such as BA, let alone a convertible like SQ's would be a terrible threat for nearly all F installations LH runs.
In fact given the privacy and the superior video. I'd probably prefer an SQ C seat over LH's F (if it the wasn't for the fish eggs and the huge advantage of not having to see the painted Singa elves).
They fear themselves much more than they fear the competition. They fought the battle for coach successfully on the cost and not the quality side and where is any shred of evidence that the approach for Biz might be any different?
A seat that comes close to any of today's fishbone designs, a soft counter facing design such as BA, let alone a convertible like SQ's would be a terrible threat for nearly all F installations LH runs.
In fact given the privacy and the superior video. I'd probably prefer an SQ C seat over LH's F (if it the wasn't for the fish eggs and the huge advantage of not having to see the painted Singa elves).
They fear themselves much more than they fear the competition. They fought the battle for coach successfully on the cost and not the quality side and where is any shred of evidence that the approach for Biz might be any different?
Dec 3, 2011, 4:12 am
#153
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Delhi
Programs: Emirates gold *alliance silver jet airways platinum tridentprivilege gold.
Posts: 1,817
The last three comments ... I didn't think of it as product differentiation from F, but surely there is enough different now the new F product is in?
LH, like AF benefit from a huge captive domestic market so they can go slow with the retrofit and save money... That's what happened last time round as well. On routes not pertinent to domestic market where the comp now has better seats (India/China to the Americas, or Europe -SA for instance) they just crash their prices! Seems to work.....
LH, like AF benefit from a huge captive domestic market so they can go slow with the retrofit and save money... That's what happened last time round as well. On routes not pertinent to domestic market where the comp now has better seats (India/China to the Americas, or Europe -SA for instance) they just crash their prices! Seems to work.....
Dec 3, 2011, 6:19 am
#154
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1k
Posts: 97
Lavatories
Are they upgrading the C Lav's now? Was hard to tell from the pr.
Dec 3, 2011, 10:49 am
#155
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: 1P, AA EXP, SPG Gold
Posts: 1,491
Dec 3, 2011, 6:09 pm
#156
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: somewhere
Programs: their are many of them
Posts: 1,614
I think the Swiss A330s should serve as a good model for how the new LH C will be
I would imagine LH installs a product that will give it an edge over Air France and the other european carriers on the longhaul routes.
Why does everyone assume that as the launch customer for the 747-800 LH won't go all out with the new C and make it really good.
Is the new F not amazing for people ? just because you make a really strong hard product in C does mean it will infringe in the F market,
The personal service and all the soft product in F is what really sets that above C
I mean in the Old F and Old C .... I actualyl prefer the video screen in C because it is a larger screen. Everything else i will take F
I would imagine LH installs a product that will give it an edge over Air France and the other european carriers on the longhaul routes.
Why does everyone assume that as the launch customer for the 747-800 LH won't go all out with the new C and make it really good.
Is the new F not amazing for people ? just because you make a really strong hard product in C does mean it will infringe in the F market,
The personal service and all the soft product in F is what really sets that above C
I mean in the Old F and Old C .... I actualyl prefer the video screen in C because it is a larger screen. Everything else i will take F
Dec 3, 2011, 6:52 pm
#157
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
The 380? Sure. But that's it for the moment and it probably is the very reason why introducing a bearable C stool is scheduled to take forever as any average quality C hardware (not even something outstanding) will close the gap to F too dramatically before F will be 'secured'.
When it came to crippling the 320 class planes with the NEK, it also didn't take 60 months
...
Dec 5, 2011, 11:23 pm
#158
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,167
All past experience contradicts this. Vehemently. LH's key concern has always been that the segmentation between the classes is maximal and that C must not even be a remote threat for the overall F product.
A seat that comes close to any of today's fishbone designs, a soft counter facing design such as BA, let alone a convertible like SQ's would be a terrible threat for nearly all F installations LH runs.
In fact given the privacy and the superior video. I'd probably prefer an SQ C seat over LH's F (if it the wasn't for the fish eggs and the huge advantage of not having to see the painted Singa elves).
They fear themselves much more than they fear the competition. They fought the battle for coach successfully on the cost and not the quality side and where is any shred of evidence that the approach for Biz might be any different?
A seat that comes close to any of today's fishbone designs, a soft counter facing design such as BA, let alone a convertible like SQ's would be a terrible threat for nearly all F installations LH runs.
In fact given the privacy and the superior video. I'd probably prefer an SQ C seat over LH's F (if it the wasn't for the fish eggs and the huge advantage of not having to see the painted Singa elves).
They fear themselves much more than they fear the competition. They fought the battle for coach successfully on the cost and not the quality side and where is any shred of evidence that the approach for Biz might be any different?
I think the Swiss A330s should serve as a good model for how the new LH C will be
I would imagine LH installs a product that will give it an edge over Air France and the other european carriers on the longhaul routes.
Why does everyone assume that as the launch customer for the 747-800 LH won't go all out with the new C and make it really good.
Is the new F not amazing for people ? just because you make a really strong hard product in C does mean it will infringe in the F market,
The personal service and all the soft product in F is what really sets that above C
I mean in the Old F and Old C .... I actualyl prefer the video screen in C because it is a larger screen. Everything else i will take F
I would imagine LH installs a product that will give it an edge over Air France and the other european carriers on the longhaul routes.
Why does everyone assume that as the launch customer for the 747-800 LH won't go all out with the new C and make it really good.
Is the new F not amazing for people ? just because you make a really strong hard product in C does mean it will infringe in the F market,
The personal service and all the soft product in F is what really sets that above C
I mean in the Old F and Old C .... I actualyl prefer the video screen in C because it is a larger screen. Everything else i will take F
Dec 6, 2011, 12:36 am
#159
Moderator: Asiana & Qantas Frequent Flyer
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: STR/SYD/SMF
Programs: QF Lifetime SG, LH HON, OZ Lifetime Diamond +, HH Diamond, Marriott Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 14,375
I don't think LH is really concerned about cannibalizing F. F is not a product which LH really sells. Its there for awards, upgrades etc to keep some good customers happy. I had a long chat with a LH group controller a couple of months ago and according to him F doesn't make money at all. Not even close.
Dec 6, 2011, 1:22 am
#160
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,167
I prefer SQ C over LH Y but thats about it (yes, I really don't like the seat).
I don't think LH is really concerned about cannibalizing F. F is not a product which LH really sells. Its there for awards, upgrades etc to keep some good customers happy. I had a long chat with a LH group controller a couple of months ago and according to him F doesn't make money at all. Not even close.
I don't think LH is really concerned about cannibalizing F. F is not a product which LH really sells. Its there for awards, upgrades etc to keep some good customers happy. I had a long chat with a LH group controller a couple of months ago and according to him F doesn't make money at all. Not even close.
It specifically mentions the fact that LH installed only 8 F seats on the A380.
Dec 6, 2011, 3:05 am
#161
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: FRA
Programs: LH, Avis, Hyatt, ...
Posts: 4,213
I prefer SQ C over LH Y but thats about it (yes, I really don't like the seat).
I don't think LH is really concerned about cannibalizing F. F is not a product which LH really sells. Its there for awards, upgrades etc to keep some good customers happy. I had a long chat with a LH group controller a couple of months ago and according to him F doesn't make money at all. Not even close.
I don't think LH is really concerned about cannibalizing F. F is not a product which LH really sells. Its there for awards, upgrades etc to keep some good customers happy. I had a long chat with a LH group controller a couple of months ago and according to him F doesn't make money at all. Not even close.
Dec 6, 2011, 3:51 am
#162
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: VCE
Posts: 14,165
Not a surprise that F doesn't make any money. But the same is probably true for many of the manufacturers with their premium product for all types of services and goods. Having a premium product - without discussing how premium the premium LH product is ! - helps to support the brand and helps selling the cash cow products.
Dec 6, 2011, 5:15 am
#163
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: somewhere
Programs: their are many of them
Posts: 1,614
Dec 6, 2011, 5:16 am
#164
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,198
Well, the A380 was three years late... the seats and everything were designed and ordered in 2003 when the current C product was the new thing in town...
Dec 6, 2011, 5:20 am
#165
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: somewhere
Programs: their are many of them
Posts: 1,614