KLM's S20 timetable - schedule related questions
Apr 5, 2020, 12:52 pm
#61
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I'm not entirely updated from the inside but I as far I know most countries do not allow commercial pax traffic anymore and have revoked KL's regular permits requiring special arrangements for diplomatic overflight - & landing clearances which need to be arranged in concert with local Dutch embassies which not seldom are issued very last minute. Also local curfews resulting in restrictions for e.g. crew and pax transport of staff going to/from airport can be reason of actual delayed departures.
. . . this morning KL had one single flight scheduled before 9 a.m., to Paris. Shouldn't be too challenging, one would think, yet it departed 1 hour and 17 minutes late. I can't imagine that had anything to do with curfews, revoked permits, landing clearances, crew transport, and certainly not the weather or ATC restrictions due to heavy traffic. The aircraft operating the flight had been sitting at Schiphol since last Friday, so that can't have been it either. Nor did it suddenly go tech, as the delay had already been put into the system at 4 a.m.
The next two flights, to Brussels and Billund, departed 17 and 55 minutes late respectively. Flights to München and Frankfurt also left half an hour late. Longhauls to JFK and Tokyo were delayed by 30 minutes and two hours, and tonight's flight to SIN has yet to depart, but is already showing a 60 minute delay.
For whatever reason, punctuality is not their strongest point at the moment.
Johan
Apr 6, 2020, 1:52 am
#62
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Could be, but . . .
. . . this morning KL had one single flight scheduled before 9 a.m., to Paris. Shouldn't be too challenging, one would think, yet it departed 1 hour and 17 minutes late. I can't imagine that had anything to do with curfews, revoked permits, landing clearances, crew transport, and certainly not the weather or ATC restrictions due to heavy traffic. The aircraft operating the flight had been sitting at Schiphol since last Friday, so that can't have been it either. Nor did it suddenly go tech, as the delay had already been put into the system at 4 a.m.
The next two flights, to Brussels and Billund, departed 17 and 55 minutes late respectively. Flights to München and Frankfurt also left half an hour late. Longhauls to JFK and Tokyo were delayed by 30 minutes and two hours, and tonight's flight to SIN has yet to depart, but is already showing a 60 minute delay.
For whatever reason, punctuality is not their strongest point at the moment.
Johan
. . . this morning KL had one single flight scheduled before 9 a.m., to Paris. Shouldn't be too challenging, one would think, yet it departed 1 hour and 17 minutes late. I can't imagine that had anything to do with curfews, revoked permits, landing clearances, crew transport, and certainly not the weather or ATC restrictions due to heavy traffic. The aircraft operating the flight had been sitting at Schiphol since last Friday, so that can't have been it either. Nor did it suddenly go tech, as the delay had already been put into the system at 4 a.m.
The next two flights, to Brussels and Billund, departed 17 and 55 minutes late respectively. Flights to München and Frankfurt also left half an hour late. Longhauls to JFK and Tokyo were delayed by 30 minutes and two hours, and tonight's flight to SIN has yet to depart, but is already showing a 60 minute delay.
For whatever reason, punctuality is not their strongest point at the moment.
Johan
My normal flight usually departed at 8.00 pre new timetable. When it operated last week it had a new departure time of 10.15 meaning it showed as being 2hrs 15mins late.
At the moment there are very few flights with "real" delays.
Last edited by jambochris; Apr 6, 2020 at 1:53 am Reason: spelling
Apr 6, 2020, 4:50 pm
#63
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This particular flight had a scheduled departure time Sunday at 8 a.m. It was loaded as such into all systems:
3 Apr Record Created Time Adjustment Scheduled Departure changed to Apr-05-2020 8:00 AM
Only at 4 a.m. on the morning of departure was the STD changed to 9h15:
5 Apr 04:00 Time Adjustment Estimated Gate Departure changed to Apr-05-2020 9:15 AM
That's a delay in my book, and that's how others see it too:
Same holds true for Monday's KL1229, except it was delayed even longer:
No doubt these delays would also technically be considered as such under EU261. KL would never get away with saying "the flight left only two minutes late because we changed the departure time four hours before STD". Heck, by then some pax would already en route to or maybe even at the airport.
For today, Tuesday, a KL1229 record was created last Saturday:
4 Apr 22:13 Record Created Time Adjustment Scheduled Gate Departure changed to Apr-07-2020 8:00 AM Scheduled Gate Arrival changed to Apr-07-2020 9:25 AM
No doubt they will change the STD in a couple of hours.
Johan
Last edited by johan rebel; Apr 6, 2020 at 5:38 pm
Apr 7, 2020, 2:45 am
#64
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Likely schedules are dynamic as so are most flights.restrictions etc change continuously ( eg Thailand at the moment )
The cdg is scheduled next days at 09h15 . but for sure they try to make as much as connections possible so depending of the day of arrival of some longhair flights they adapt seems to me. The AF schedule is also changing frequently ; likely to giving best connections. THALYS is not running at all...
Eg SIN , which was not flown for a week, left AMS on the newly scheduled departure at 22h . Its just a new departure time . airlines and passengers have to be flexible nowadays
To me klm and the likes who are still flying like Qatar and BA and even Alitalia are doing great job for those in need of air travel. lets say l tend to see it from the positive site ; i think most FLYING passengers currently will do the same.
The cdg is scheduled next days at 09h15 . but for sure they try to make as much as connections possible so depending of the day of arrival of some longhair flights they adapt seems to me. The AF schedule is also changing frequently ; likely to giving best connections. THALYS is not running at all...
Eg SIN , which was not flown for a week, left AMS on the newly scheduled departure at 22h . Its just a new departure time . airlines and passengers have to be flexible nowadays
To me klm and the likes who are still flying like Qatar and BA and even Alitalia are doing great job for those in need of air travel. lets say l tend to see it from the positive site ; i think most FLYING passengers currently will do the same.
Apr 7, 2020, 3:03 am
#65
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Depends on how you look at it.
This particular flight had a scheduled departure time Sunday at 8 a.m. It was loaded as such into all systems:
3 Apr Record Created Time Adjustment Scheduled Departure changed to Apr-05-2020 8:00 AM
Only at 4 a.m. on the morning of departure was the STD changed to 9h15:
5 Apr 04:00 Time Adjustment Estimated Gate Departure changed to Apr-05-2020 9:15 AM
That's a delay in my book, and that's how others see it too:
Same holds true for Monday's KL1229, except it was delayed even longer:
No doubt these delays would also technically be considered as such under EU261. KL would never get away with saying "the flight left only two minutes late because we changed the departure time four hours before STD". Heck, by then some pax would already en route to or maybe even at the airport.
For today, Tuesday, a KL1229 record was created last Saturday:
4 Apr 22:13 Record Created Time Adjustment Scheduled Gate Departure changed to Apr-07-2020 8:00 AM Scheduled Gate Arrival changed to Apr-07-2020 9:25 AM
No doubt they will change the STD in a couple of hours.
Johan
This particular flight had a scheduled departure time Sunday at 8 a.m. It was loaded as such into all systems:
3 Apr Record Created Time Adjustment Scheduled Departure changed to Apr-05-2020 8:00 AM
Only at 4 a.m. on the morning of departure was the STD changed to 9h15:
5 Apr 04:00 Time Adjustment Estimated Gate Departure changed to Apr-05-2020 9:15 AM
That's a delay in my book, and that's how others see it too:
Same holds true for Monday's KL1229, except it was delayed even longer:
No doubt these delays would also technically be considered as such under EU261. KL would never get away with saying "the flight left only two minutes late because we changed the departure time four hours before STD". Heck, by then some pax would already en route to or maybe even at the airport.
For today, Tuesday, a KL1229 record was created last Saturday:
4 Apr 22:13 Record Created Time Adjustment Scheduled Gate Departure changed to Apr-07-2020 8:00 AM Scheduled Gate Arrival changed to Apr-07-2020 9:25 AM
No doubt they will change the STD in a couple of hours.
Johan
Apr 7, 2020, 9:15 am
#66
Join Date: Mar 2008
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KLM was set to announce AMS-CUN just before the C19 crisis. I have been told that has been shelved for now.
It is highly likely that the JRO and DAR triangle flight will not return in the form it has been for decades. Depending on the situation in Kenia it could be a combined flight. Going on an expensive Safari is probably not the first holiday people will book.
ZNZ plans also have been shelved for now. Something KLM wanted for a long time but the airport was always this issue as they wanted it to be a t7.
It is highly likely that the JRO and DAR triangle flight will not return in the form it has been for decades. Depending on the situation in Kenia it could be a combined flight. Going on an expensive Safari is probably not the first holiday people will book.
ZNZ plans also have been shelved for now. Something KLM wanted for a long time but the airport was always this issue as they wanted it to be a t7.
Apr 7, 2020, 9:20 am
#67
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Apr 11, 2020, 10:42 am
#69
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In the past days it's raining cancellations in my inbox and KLM app. Tried to rebook AMS-NCE, but al direct KL flights seem to be cancelled until the end of June. I'm wondering whether they've just pro-actively cancelled all flights, so they prevent pax from booking and can make them 'happy' with a limited number of flights in case travel restrictions are removed, rather than keeping the hope up that all originally scheduled flights would be honored..
Apr 11, 2020, 12:14 pm
#70
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In the past days it's raining cancellations in my inbox and KLM app. Tried to rebook AMS-NCE, but al direct KL flights seem to be cancelled until the end of June. I'm wondering whether they've just pro-actively cancelled all flights, so they prevent pax from booking and can make them 'happy' with a limited number of flights in case travel restrictions are removed, rather than keeping the hope up that all originally scheduled flights would be honored..
Apr 11, 2020, 5:02 pm
#71
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I just noticed my SFO-AMS flight on July 1st is cancelled and they couldn't find an alternate flight (meaning the second flight is also cancelled). A quick look seems to show it is cancelled until July 4th
Apr 12, 2020, 3:05 pm
#73
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I've noticed that AF flights are still bookable, but was just wondering why KL entirely removed some routes until the end of June. That's why I posted the question in this thread rather than any of the rebooking threads.. Rebooking for mid-June wouldn't really make sense to me anyway given the pace of developments.. 
Apr 14, 2020, 3:28 am
#74
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I think it's apparent that no European airline will be operating their full, originally-scheduled timetable at any point during this summer.
As such, those that give the impression that they are keeping their "full" schedule in place past May/June are probably doing everyone a disservice.
I don't expect that there are many people making new bookings for the summer months right now - but some people may be using the ability to change existing bookings such that they are rebooking themselves onto dates/flights that KLM already knows it won't be operating.
It doesn't seem to be a bad idea to totally thin out the schedule for the next several months given current circumstances.
There is nothing to prevent KLM from adding back routes/flights as and when the situation evolves.
As such, those that give the impression that they are keeping their "full" schedule in place past May/June are probably doing everyone a disservice.
I don't expect that there are many people making new bookings for the summer months right now - but some people may be using the ability to change existing bookings such that they are rebooking themselves onto dates/flights that KLM already knows it won't be operating.
It doesn't seem to be a bad idea to totally thin out the schedule for the next several months given current circumstances.
There is nothing to prevent KLM from adding back routes/flights as and when the situation evolves.
Apr 15, 2020, 4:18 pm
#75
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 77
Refreshed my KLM app this evening to find more changes to my booking late June. Looks like a further reduction of service to São Paulo. Not sure what other schedule changes have been made in the last few hours.
-not sure if relevant to this thread but KLM moved my booking from 30th June to July 1st with an arrival into São Paulo of July 2nd. My final destination is Rio but my journey seemed to end in São Paulo with no onward connection with Gol (as there was in my first Schedule change). KLM offered to move me to a departure of June 29th. If I accepted this would it be up to them to pay for my accommodation on June 29th in Rio as they can’t seem to let me get to Rio on that date unless I fly Air France which gets me in to Rio at 5:50am.
-not sure if relevant to this thread but KLM moved my booking from 30th June to July 1st with an arrival into São Paulo of July 2nd. My final destination is Rio but my journey seemed to end in São Paulo with no onward connection with Gol (as there was in my first Schedule change). KLM offered to move me to a departure of June 29th. If I accepted this would it be up to them to pay for my accommodation on June 29th in Rio as they can’t seem to let me get to Rio on that date unless I fly Air France which gets me in to Rio at 5:50am.