KLM's S20 timetable - schedule related questions

Old Apr 1, 20, 12:46 pm
  #46  
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Originally Posted by johan rebel View Post
KL has now announced extra corona measure on JFK flights. Henceforth, all aisle seats will be blocked. The intention is to increase the separation between seated pax and crew members walking down the aisle. That the effect may well be to force pax into middle seats and thus decrease the separation between the pax themselves to below the recommended minimum is apparently of no concern. Other airlines have announced that all middle seats will be blocked, so priorities apparently differ.

Johan
I really doubt that loads are currently such that passengers not travelling together are required to sit in the same row....
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Old Apr 1, 20, 1:11 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
You really should not be planning any discretionary travel for the foreseeable future anyway.
At this point it's really about planning the cancellation. It's a trip I purchased as an Expedia bundle. Fortunately, the first flight is on Delta, so Expedia ticketed the trip on 006 stock. Delta said that if the flight is canceled, they would refund the ticket. So now I'm waiting for the airlines to actually cancel the specific flight that I'm on.
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Old Apr 1, 20, 3:49 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
I really doubt that loads are currently such that passengers not travelling together are required to sit in the same row....
The 773 has 39 rows in economy, so it would take only 40 pax for at least two to have to share a row. Even with three pax per row (i.e. one in each seat block) that only allows for a total of 112 pax (not all rows have three blocks). JFK load factors are currently running at about 50%, so about 204 pax. Assuming a full WBC, that leaves 170 pax to share 39 rows, or almost 4.5 per row. With four aisle seats blocked, those pax will have to share six seats, or even only two or four in certain rows. If WBC is also at 50%, then five pax will have to share the available seats in each economy row.

So much for 1Ĺ m separation, let alone 6 ft as recommended in the States.

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Old Apr 1, 20, 4:25 pm
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I am supposed to be flying KL705 to Rio on the 4th May, would you say it’s a safe bet that this flight will be cancelled?
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Old Apr 2, 20, 12:17 am
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Originally Posted by gopher99 View Post
I am supposed to be flying KL705 to Rio on the 4th May, would you say itís a safe bet that this flight will be cancelled?
Rio is on the list of destinations that are currently suspended and will be suspended for 2 months, so itís virtually guaranteed your flight will be cancelled. Just hold your feet still and let them cancel the flight.
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Old Apr 2, 20, 12:55 am
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Originally Posted by gopher99 View Post
I am supposed to be flying KL705 to Rio on the 4th May, would you say itís a safe bet that this flight will be cancelled?
Originally Posted by mfkne View Post
Rio is on the list of destinations that are currently suspended and will be suspended for 2 months, so itís virtually guaranteed your flight will be cancelled. Just hold your feet still and let them cancel the flight.
But GIG is kept by AF with a few weekly flights, so you could be rebooked on AF if you still want to fly.
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Old Apr 2, 20, 1:30 am
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Originally Posted by johan rebel View Post
The 773 has 39 rows in economy, so it would take only 40 pax for at least two to have to share a row. Even with three pax per row (i.e. one in each seat block) that only allows for a total of 112 pax (not all rows have three blocks). JFK load factors are currently running at about 50%, so about 204 pax. Assuming a full WBC, that leaves 170 pax to share 39 rows, or almost 4.5 per row. With four aisle seats blocked, those pax will have to share six seats, or even only two or four in certain rows. If WBC is also at 50%, then five pax will have to share the available seats in each economy row.

So much for 1Ĺ m separation, let alone 6 ft as recommended in the States.

Johan
You and I may be largely solo travellers, but you don't seem to be considering the fact that there will also be couples or other groups travelling, who as a unit are not going to be separated in the manner you suggest above.
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Old Apr 2, 20, 3:05 am
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Originally Posted by mfkne View Post
Rio is on the list of destinations that are currently suspended and will be suspended for 2 months, so itís virtually guaranteed your flight will be cancelled. Just hold your feet still and let them cancel the flight.

In this current climate and the hassle i have just had trying to get back from Brazil to the UK, I think I will sit tight and wait for my next flight to Rio in June.
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Old Apr 2, 20, 4:14 am
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Originally Posted by johan rebel View Post
The 773 has 39 rows in economy, so it would take only 40 pax for at least two to have to share a row. Even with three pax per row (i.e. one in each seat block) that only allows for a total of 112 pax (not all rows have three blocks). JFK load factors are currently running at about 50%, so about 204 pax. Assuming a full WBC, that leaves 170 pax to share 39 rows, or almost 4.5 per row. With four aisle seats blocked, those pax will have to share six seats, or even only two or four in certain rows. If WBC is also at 50%, then five pax will have to share the available seats in each economy row.

So much for 1Ĺ m separation, let alone 6 ft as recommended in the States.

Johan
Where did you get the 50% load factor data?
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Old Apr 2, 20, 11:09 am
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Originally Posted by newflyer530 View Post
Where did you get the 50% load factor data?
Here.

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Old Apr 2, 20, 1:26 pm
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Originally Posted by johan rebel View Post
Here.

Johan
So I see you based your calculation on a very vague data point where the original text said "the flights to New York and back are in most cases at most half full. Those numbers are expected to decline even further in the coming weeks." Seems you interpret "in most cases <50% full" to equal "+/- 50% full" and also blindly assume no one travels in groups of 2 and above nowadays...
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Old Apr 2, 20, 2:14 pm
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If they are less than half full in most cases, they will be more than half full in some. And who says that two or more pax traveling together absolutely want to sit right next to each other on a flight that's far from full?

In any case, the point here is that when it comes to separation in the cabin, KLM has chosen to put the interests of the cabin crew above those of the passengers. It cannot be ruled out that some pax who would much rather not sit right next to somebody else will be forced to do so just to keep the aisle seats free. Other airlines have made a different choice.

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Old Apr 3, 20, 4:33 am
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Originally Posted by johan rebel View Post
And who says that two or more pax traveling together absolutely want to sit right next to each other on a flight that's far from full?

<snip>

It cannot be ruled out that some pax who would much rather not sit right next to somebody else will be forced to do so just to keep the aisle seats free.
If "unrelated" pax are forced to sit in a manner that they otherwise wouldn't necessarily choose, it stands to reason that "related" pax can also be forced to sit in a different manner, even if it is one that they otherwise wouldn't choose - i.e. together.

However, I suspect loads are now at such a low level that none of the above is strictly necessary, and everyone is pretty much free to spread out as much as they desire.
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Old Apr 4, 20, 3:19 pm
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Now that KL is operating so few flights and AMS is no longer the usual overcrowded mess, I'm surprised at how many of the few remaining outgoing flights were delayed today. Not short delays either, but up to two hours or even longer. Can't have been the weather. Nor late incoming flights, as those were mostly on time, bar a few longhauls running 10 or 11 hours late.

Interesting.

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Old Apr 5, 20, 6:29 am
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Originally Posted by johan rebel View Post
Now that KL is operating so few flights and AMS is no longer the usual overcrowded mess, I'm surprised at how many of the few remaining outgoing flights were delayed today. Not short delays either, but up to two hours or even longer. Can't have been the weather. Nor late incoming flights, as those were mostly on time, bar a few longhauls running 10 or 11 hours late.

Interesting.

Johan
I'm not entirely updated from the inside but I as far I know most countries do not allow commercial pax traffic anymore and have revoked KL's regular permits requiring special arrangements for diplomatic overflight - & landing clearances which need to be arranged in concert with local Dutch embassies which not seldom are issued very last minute. Also local curfews resulting in restrictions for e.g. crew and pax transport of staff going to/from airport can be reason of actual delayed departures.
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