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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 5:55 pm
  #91  
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Originally Posted by donjo
Yes, relied on the tour guide and they failed to fulfill what they promised. They offered to refund me $1000 of the tour package for their mistake. The tour guide also informed me that I may be banned from the re-entering Japan for a period of time to be determined because of this error. I am waiting to hear how long that might be.
You have I assume the acceptance of responsibility in writing ?

If so I would contact the local Japanese consulate or embassy and try to get the possible ban revoked. I would also send a detailed invoice with all your costs related to this aborted trip to the tour operator with a lawyers letter asking for full compensation. I don't have much expectation that they will react but its worth a try.
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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 6:12 pm
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Ghoulish
From what I've seen, the only way around a reentry sanction is with a "voluntary withdrawal" of attempting to entry the country. Again commonly offered in cases where the traveller wasn't attempting to violate the law but where discretion couldn't be exercised, like some minor criminal violation from long ago without the necessary exemption.
This was my thought as well. In the UK, the immigration officer can ask the person if they'd like to withdraw their request to enter the country, and as a result, no 'denial' placed in their record.

Given how poor the communication seems to have been during the incident, OP should explore whether their application to enter Japan was legally denied or whether they were considered to have voluntarily returned to the US after withdrawing their intention to enter Japan.
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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 6:13 pm
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Originally Posted by Ghoulish
Do you have some admiration for the lack of reasonableness by the authorities who could have chosen to exercise some discretion with the requirement ending in a matter of hours?
No, generally I do not expect immigrations officials to ever "bend the rules" because of something that boils down to negligence on the traveler's part and especially not in Japan.

A US immigration official would have done the exact same thing.
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Last edited by invalyd; Oct 11, 2022 at 6:30 pm
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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 6:15 pm
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Originally Posted by BRITINJAPAN4
There was only one party responsible here, and that was the tour operator.
I am sorry about how this situation unfolded but the only responsible party is OP.

The tour guide operator could not have applied for the visa even if they wanted to, the best thing they could have done was advise about the next steps to take, and a quick internet search would have yielded the same result.

At this point finger pointing is not really productive though, hopefully OP can get things sorted out and get back to Japan soon.
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Last edited by invalyd; Oct 11, 2022 at 6:29 pm
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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 6:21 pm
  #95  
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Originally Posted by invalyd
I am sorry about how this situation unfolded but the only responsible party is OP.
No one is denying that it ultimately was in the OPs power to avoid this.

However, that doesn't absolve the authorities in whom the power of discretion lies to treat a guest making an honest mistake in the most brutal manner the law allows from criticism. Particularly when considering the totality of the circumstances.
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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 6:22 pm
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Originally Posted by invalyd
No, generally I do not expect immigrations officials to ever "bend the rules" because of something that boils down to negligence on the traveler's part and especially not in Japan.

A US immigration official would have done the exact same thing.
It's not about bending the rules. In many countries, the law gives immigration officers (the ones at supervisor level, anyway) a level of discretion. It can often be possible to grant probationary entry permission for a limited time. It certainly happens here in the UK. That said, I'm not familiar with the level of discretion Japanese officers are given.
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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 6:24 pm
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Originally Posted by JL41
It's not about bending the rules. In many countries, the law gives immigration officers (the ones at supervisor level, anyway) a level of discretion. It can often be possible to grant probationary entry permission for a limited time. It certainly happens here in the UK. That said, I'm not familiar with the level of discretion Japanese officers are given.
This is Japan though. I doubt there was much if any discretion available on the part of the immigration officer and OP was 30 hours early (over a full day), not 3-4 hours.
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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 6:26 pm
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Originally Posted by Ghoulish
No one is denying that it ultimately was in the OPs power to avoid this.

However, that doesn't absolve the authorities in whom the power of discretion lies to treat a guest making an honest mistake in the most brutal manner the law allows from criticism. Particularly when considering the totality of the circumstances.
I'm not sure why you firmly believe any other country in the world would have allowed OP to enter. I suppose having dealt with spiteful US immigration officials way too many times over the years, I am a little more jaded than you about their so-called compassion.
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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 6:29 pm
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Ghoulish
No one is denying that it ultimately was in the OPs power to avoid this.

However, that doesn't absolve the authorities in whom the power of discretion lies to treat a guest making an honest mistake in the most brutal manner the law allows from criticism. Particularly when considering the totality of the circumstances.
The good doctor was put on a business class flight back to Chicago.

Now, while I do admit to finding Chicago dragged through the garden hot dogs and deep dish pizza to be abominations the mere thought of which makes me want to retch, its not brutality, I reckon.
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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 7:16 pm
  #100  
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Originally Posted by JamesBigglesworth
Usual period following deportation is 5 or 10 years, depending on the actual grounds they filed it all under. It will also automatically disqualify you from entering ~75 other countries under a visa waiver.
That's pretty harsh - it's a good thing the OP wasn't deported!
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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 7:19 pm
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Steve M
That's pretty harsh - it's a good thing the OP wasn't deported!
Not clear from this spirited discussion that he wasn't!
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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 7:21 pm
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Steve M
That's pretty harsh - it's a good thing the OP wasn't deported!
You may (or may not) have noticed that most immigration documents ask if you've ever been deported *or denied entry* to a country. A lot of countries make no distinction on deported/denied entry. Hence the reason you end up having to apply for a visa rather than use a waiver or VOA.
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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 7:33 pm
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Ghoulish
However, that doesn't absolve the authorities in whom the power of discretion lies to treat a guest making an honest mistake in the most brutal manner the law allows from criticism. Particularly when considering the totality of the circumstances.
Absolve the authorities of what???????????

Doing their job??????

If everybody could expect discretion, then everyone would treat entry dates as approximate. I spent years dealing with visa for traveling employees and contractors in various countries. Discretion to void legal visa restrictions is not a prevalent as you seem to believe. Theres even a question if the OP had a legal visa. And you say the immigration official of Japan (or the USA, or whatever country) can just say No problem, just go on in. Seriously?

There seems to be an undertone that Japanese are more difficult than other countries/races. That is 100% untrue. Ive dealt with employees/contractors caught up in visa/entry problems worldwide. Its not a Japanese thing - its a border thing.

Until the traveler is allowed in, he/she is not a guest - he/she is a potential guest. Do you understand that until the traveler is actually let in by virtue of a valid visa, that person has NOT legally entered Japan?
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Last edited by IAH-OIL-TRASH; Oct 11, 2022 at 7:42 pm
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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 7:36 pm
  #104  
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Originally Posted by Ghoulish
During the bogus covid "reopening" with North Korea like minder requirements for tourists introduced a number of months ago.
Again the anti Japan tone, what happened to you ?
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Old Oct 11, 2022 | 7:44 pm
  #105  
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Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
And you say the immigration official of Japan (or the USA, or whatever country) can just say No problem, just go on in. Seriously?
While I agree it's on traveler's responsibility to ensure they have the proper entry document, I do think honest mistakes happen and it may be more frequent than you think when a border officer exercises their discretion.

I once read a UK foreign student who took the ferry to Ireland not knowing he needs a separate visa to enter Ireland. No one checked his visa before boarding the ferry. He was allowed in based on the good faith of the border officer, after he showed a one night hotel booking with ferry ticket coming back to UK the day after.
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