Refused entry to Japan
#31
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
Sorry for your travel issues, that would be a nightmare. Did you verify the visa with Japan immigration before your trip? All of the visas/etas I have had either were stamped in my passport ahead of time by the consulate or I applied directly from the immigration website with a confirmation/verification.
#32
Original Poster


Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Austin
Programs: 1K MM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, AA Exec. Plat
Posts: 404
Sorry for your travel issues, that would be a nightmare. Did you verify the visa with Japan immigration before your trip? All of the visas/etas I have had either were stamped in my passport ahead of time by the consulate or I applied directly from the immigration website with a confirmation/verification.
#33
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
I had contacted the Japanese consulate in Houston and they replied a couple of months ago that all tourist visas needed to be done through a tour group. The tour guide I hired agreed to obtain the visa on my behalf. About a week after supplying her with all the necessary demographic information she emailed me my "visa," as a .pdf form. I could not have applied for a tourist visa on my own even if I had wanted to based on their restrictions.
#34


Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: TXL
Programs: US, LH, HH
Posts: 772
I had contacted the Japanese consulate in Houston and they replied a couple of months ago that all tourist visas needed to be done through a tour group. The tour guide I hired agreed to obtain the visa on my behalf. About a week after supplying her with all the necessary demographic information she emailed me my "visa," as a .pdf form. I could not have applied for a tourist visa on my own even if I had wanted to based on their restrictions.
#35




Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,345
I've tried really hard to avoid replying in this thread as I have some further thoughts on the matter, but I'm going to keep it limited.
But unfortunately "what would have been the case in less than 2 days" doesn't matter. Its the regulations that are in effect on the specified date/time, not what it's going to be. Do we also say to the airlines "well this fare in less than 2 days after I want to fly is $500 cheaper, so just give it to me on the day I want?" or "in less than 2 days I don't need a VISA, so just let me fly today without showing I've obtained a VISA"
And the OP already told us where they have already identified where fault lies for this situation
So that being said, I'm really confused why this is related to United at all, continues to be discussed in the UA forum and whether they were right or wrong in the situation, beyond the fact that they were the carrier who was transporting the passenger. This is ultimately a VISA/immigration issue and the situation would have been the same regardless if it was UA, AA, DL or even ANA who transported the passenger. Except they might have actually charged the passenger the cost of the airfare for the return. If anything OP should be grateful they didn't have any more out of pocket expenses for what was a massive mistake, as they have indicated, by their tour agency.
But unfortunately "what would have been the case in less than 2 days" doesn't matter. Its the regulations that are in effect on the specified date/time, not what it's going to be. Do we also say to the airlines "well this fare in less than 2 days after I want to fly is $500 cheaper, so just give it to me on the day I want?" or "in less than 2 days I don't need a VISA, so just let me fly today without showing I've obtained a VISA"

So that being said, I'm really confused why this is related to United at all, continues to be discussed in the UA forum and whether they were right or wrong in the situation, beyond the fact that they were the carrier who was transporting the passenger. This is ultimately a VISA/immigration issue and the situation would have been the same regardless if it was UA, AA, DL or even ANA who transported the passenger. Except they might have actually charged the passenger the cost of the airfare for the return. If anything OP should be grateful they didn't have any more out of pocket expenses for what was a massive mistake, as they have indicated, by their tour agency.
#36
Original Poster


Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Austin
Programs: 1K MM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, AA Exec. Plat
Posts: 404
I've tried really hard to avoid replying in this thread as I have some further thoughts on the matter, but I'm going to keep it limited.
But unfortunately "what would have been the case in less than 2 days" doesn't matter. Its the regulations that are in effect on the specified date/time, not what it's going to be. Do we also say to the airlines "well this fare in less than 2 days after I want to fly is $500 cheaper, so just give it to me on the day I want?" or "in less than 2 days I don't need a VISA, so just let me fly today without showing I've obtained a VISA"
And the OP already told us where they have already identified where fault lies for this situation
So that being said, I'm really confused why this is related to United at all, continues to be discussed in the UA forum and whether they were right or wrong in the situation, beyond the fact that they were the carrier who was transporting the passenger. This is ultimately a VISA/immigration issue and the situation would have been the same regardless if it was UA, AA, DL or even ANA who transported the passenger. Except they might have actually charged the passenger the cost of the airfare for the return. If anything OP should be grateful they didn't have any more out of pocket expenses for what was a massive mistake, as they have indicated, by their tour agency.
But unfortunately "what would have been the case in less than 2 days" doesn't matter. Its the regulations that are in effect on the specified date/time, not what it's going to be. Do we also say to the airlines "well this fare in less than 2 days after I want to fly is $500 cheaper, so just give it to me on the day I want?" or "in less than 2 days I don't need a VISA, so just let me fly today without showing I've obtained a VISA"

And the OP already told us where they have already identified where fault lies for this situation
So that being said, I'm really confused why this is related to United at all, continues to be discussed in the UA forum and whether they were right or wrong in the situation, beyond the fact that they were the carrier who was transporting the passenger. This is ultimately a VISA/immigration issue and the situation would have been the same regardless if it was UA, AA, DL or even ANA who transported the passenger. Except they might have actually charged the passenger the cost of the airfare for the return. If anything OP should be grateful they didn't have any more out of pocket expenses for what was a massive mistake, as they have indicated, by their tour agency.
#37




Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: W29
Programs: It's Complicated...
Posts: 7,181
You definitely got that!
Really sorry for all the trouble and I don't really see how you could have done much better than you did. The Japanese entry program was stupid from the start and unfortunately you got the short end of it.
Really sorry for all the trouble and I don't really see how you could have done much better than you did. The Japanese entry program was stupid from the start and unfortunately you got the short end of it.
#38
Flyertalk Evangelist, Moderator: United Airlines MileagePlus


Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL DM, UA Nostalgist, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 16,142
Thanks for your reply. The only reason I posted this in the United forum was to determine how reliably the international gate agent is at catching errors on these types of documents before allowing a passenger on an international flight. Apparently they are not reliable to any extent. I understand the responsibility ultimately lies with me and I fully accept that. However, like many people who are confused by a dynamic process involving immigration, I chose to hire someone who does this for a living. And that person did not do their job correctly. Lesson learned. My concern going forward as was mentioned above, is how long will I be banned from re-entry now that I have been deported.
UA does attempt to check the validity of visas and documents, but it is an obligation to themselves because they face the burden of removing you from Japan and can also be fined by the Japanese government for delivering inadmissible pax. I would absolutely say you had an extremely rare experience - 99% of the time someone without the correct documents for entry will be caught by UA and denied boarding at their origin. TIMATIC would have flagged you for a visa check, and an agent should have confirmed that you had a visa - since we don't know what the issue was I have no way of knowing whether it was reasonable for the agent to catch it. In a sense, you could say that UA messed up too, but they don't have a contractual obligation to you here - UA messed up, and they paid for their mistake by having to take you back from Japan, and they may get in trouble with Japan.
#39
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
I've tried really hard to avoid replying in this thread as I have some further thoughts on the matter, but I'm going to keep it limited.
But unfortunately "what would have been the case in less than 2 days" doesn't matter. Its the regulations that are in effect on the specified date/time, not what it's going to be. Do we also say to the airlines "well this fare in less than 2 days after I want to fly is $500 cheaper, so just give it to me on the day I want?" or "in less than 2 days I don't need a VISA, so just let me fly today without showing I've obtained a VISA"
And the OP already told us where they have already identified where fault lies for this situation
So that being said, I'm really confused why this is related to United at all, continues to be discussed in the UA forum and whether they were right or wrong in the situation, beyond the fact that they were the carrier who was transporting the passenger. This is ultimately a VISA/immigration issue and the situation would have been the same regardless if it was UA, AA, DL or even ANA who transported the passenger. Except they might have actually charged the passenger the cost of the airfare for the return. If anything OP should be grateful they didn't have any more out of pocket expenses for what was a massive mistake, as they have indicated, by their tour agency.
But unfortunately "what would have been the case in less than 2 days" doesn't matter. Its the regulations that are in effect on the specified date/time, not what it's going to be. Do we also say to the airlines "well this fare in less than 2 days after I want to fly is $500 cheaper, so just give it to me on the day I want?" or "in less than 2 days I don't need a VISA, so just let me fly today without showing I've obtained a VISA"

And the OP already told us where they have already identified where fault lies for this situation
So that being said, I'm really confused why this is related to United at all, continues to be discussed in the UA forum and whether they were right or wrong in the situation, beyond the fact that they were the carrier who was transporting the passenger. This is ultimately a VISA/immigration issue and the situation would have been the same regardless if it was UA, AA, DL or even ANA who transported the passenger. Except they might have actually charged the passenger the cost of the airfare for the return. If anything OP should be grateful they didn't have any more out of pocket expenses for what was a massive mistake, as they have indicated, by their tour agency.
#40
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 52,734
UA definitely gets fined each time a pax of theirs fails the immigration requirements.
#41
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 853
Given that you had a document that looked like a visa, and so far it sounds like no one in this thread has determined conclusively what the problem was, I'm not surprised that UA let you board.
UA does attempt to check the validity of visas and documents, but it is an obligation to themselves because they face the burden of removing you from Japan and can also be fined by the Japanese government for delivering inadmissible pax. I would absolutely say you had an extremely rare experience - 99% of the time someone without the correct documents for entry will be caught by UA and denied boarding at their origin. In a sense, you could say that UA messed up too, but they don't have a contractual obligation to you here - UA messed up, and they paid for their mistake by having to take you back from Japan, and they may get in trouble with Japan.
UA does attempt to check the validity of visas and documents, but it is an obligation to themselves because they face the burden of removing you from Japan and can also be fined by the Japanese government for delivering inadmissible pax. I would absolutely say you had an extremely rare experience - 99% of the time someone without the correct documents for entry will be caught by UA and denied boarding at their origin. In a sense, you could say that UA messed up too, but they don't have a contractual obligation to you here - UA messed up, and they paid for their mistake by having to take you back from Japan, and they may get in trouble with Japan.
On the heels of Japan's Covid policy widely understood by political observers to have ulterior motives finally coming to an end, they should do what immigration control authorities in countries around the world frequently do, exercise discretion, common sense, and dare I say it, as this is Japan, some human compassion.
Instead, they appeared to gleefully use the letter of the law as cover to deal with a foreigner in the most heavy handed way possible. Had imprisoning her been an option not risking what I understand to be their already shaky ground within the visa exemption agreement with the US, I think they might've done that.
#42


Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: AA Plat, UA 1K>Plat>moving to Silver
Posts: 2,279
I'm curious - it certainly seems that the Japanese tour operator is the one at fault. I would agree that UA is not in a position to guarantee the efficacy of Japanese visas, only that you had something that appeared to be a visa on its face, and so is not at fault.
But what has the tour operator offered to do? Have you asked them for compensation? It seems they should be the ones responsible.
But what has the tour operator offered to do? Have you asked them for compensation? It seems they should be the ones responsible.
#43
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
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Posts: 47,221
I purchased a rather expensive concert piano for my home. The final construction of the instrument is completed by one master craftsman sort of like an AMG engine in a Mercedes. They only make 3 or 4 of this model for the world each year. The salesman suggested that if I ever went to Japan they could arrange a private factory tour for me as a token of appreciation. They also create a bronze plaque with the name of people who buy this model and place on a wall in the factory. It took several months to arrange all this since the factory was still recovering from their COVID lockdowns. My son has no interest in pianos, so I promised him a day at Tokyo Disney if he would accompany me to the tour. I work as an ER doctor and my schedule has yet to return to anything sane, so besides having some bonding time for my son and I, it was going to be a nice respite from the 60-80 hrs work weeks. I'm sad to hear that it will be more difficult to re-enter Japan going forward, because it was something of great interest to us.
Just to add some commentary regarding another posters claim that the factory tour was a form of tourism, many immigration departments, including the USA, would consider visiting a factory to be a form of business intent even if we know that its really not. Its just a risk when dealing with very difficult immigration departments who have wide latitude in interpreting a visitors intent, so asking the right questions beforehand is essential. I just wanted to make sure this topic did not come up in the OPs interaction with this particular immigration inspector.
Last edited by bocastephen; Oct 11, 2022 at 8:21 am
#44
Original Poster


Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Austin
Programs: 1K MM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, AA Exec. Plat
Posts: 404
If the topic of the piano tour did not come up in your interaction, then I really have no idea what happened here, except an error by the tour company in your visa application or by the agency that issued the visa. I would suggest pushing the tour company to get to the bottom of this and involving your local consulate as needed to make sure your next entry goes smoothly.
#45
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 853
Just to add some commentary regarding another posters claim that the factory tour was a form of tourism, many immigration departments, including the USA, would consider visiting a factory to be a form of business intent even if we know that its really not. Its just a risk when dealing with very difficult immigration departments who have wide latitude in interpreting a visitors intent, so asking the right questions beforehand is essential. I just wanted to make sure this topic did not come up in the OPs interaction with this particular immigration inspector.
The visa requirement is entirely part of temporary covid restrictions and if anything, business trips were given deference under those temporary requirements where tourism was not.
So in 30 hours, no visa would've been required in either case.
Again, discretion could've been easily exercised, but, you know, not all are pleased at the return of gaigin to Japan's pristine land.


