torcross

This is dead right, my wife and I have 2 joint credit card accounts both have everything the same including the 3 digit number on the back and use them for both of our PCR accounts.

apollo_liumin

I guess you should be clear that the critical point here is:

you can never get the other-side story from PCR. They act like dictators, and you would not have any chance to argue and negotiate.

torcross

just to ask, is the OP saying that you having the points in the account was not a problem but as soon as you redeemed them your account was closed,

also did you use the points for your stay or did you have to pay as your account was closed or did they honour the fact you reserved on points?

uk1

Ignoring the Chinese issue - I don't know the truth of this, I condemn ICHG's closing of any account due to the use of multiple promotions for one reason only. Forgive my rather clumsy attempt at expressing my reasons - it's difficult sometimes to express reasons for a complex issue.

It seems to me that ICHG have exploited the use of viral marketing to an extent that I personally believe goes over an acceptability line. The programme I'm referring to is the Friends and Family rate. It goes over a line because it purposefully encourages people to do something they think they are not entitled to do.

I'm certain that ICHG released this particular promotion with it's special rate to test and learn about the effectiveness and use of viral marketing. People using it originally thought that they had access to a special rate that was intended to presumably be used only by genuine family and friends of ICHG employees. It used that bit within all of us who like to think we have found a special bargain no one else knows about. We then share that knowledge. That's viral marketing. When releasing this rate ICHG encouraged employees to sell and viral market the links to special pages to anyone that is to people they did not know personally. In return prizes were offered to employees. So ICHG employees were paid to actively lead customers into using rates that on the face of it were "abusive" rates. One of the main people posting was Steven Sickel head of marketing and I've used his referral many times. The two purposes of this - ICHG said so in another forum - was to increase business and better understand viral marketing.

It seems to me therefore that ICHG, when convenient set out to entrap ICHG customers into using a rate that on the face of it - we shouldn't use - and they shouldn't want us to use. Ethically, to me this is identical to the promotion codes. It exploits the "we all like a bargain and to beat the system" within us. That is a rate intended for Friends and Family of employees which they know and we know we are not. They did this to learn more about how to get a message widely spread without spending a penny on advertising.

It seems to me therefore also that this exercise has the same effect as the offering of points bonuses to customers in that a customer who gets to hear of them through viral marketing - FT is a viral marketing source - thinks they are getting a bargain. If ICHG refuse to put in a fairly basic system for all targeted points that stops registration then I consider them to be at fault. Becasue they can do this but choose not to.

If ICHG hadn't marketed F&F rate in the way they had, I'd consider them right use the T's&C's to close accounts of those that abused the points system. But because of F&F I think therefore that for the reasons I've explained that this duplicitous approach to viral marketing is inconsistent and unfair and places their own ethics in a questionable light.

yyliu88

I redeemed last Friday for 6 nights, check in on Sat, no problem as PCR closed during the weekend. As I said, I never thought of being closed until this Friday,very late afternoon, I tried to login to book more nights.

too add more detail, on Friday, I suppose to check out, but as I said, I am remodeling my home, so was extremely busy, I totally forgot to check out because I thought I booked until Sat. around 6:00pm, I went back to the hotel, but key did not work, I went downstair to re do my key, they told me I should check out long time ago. If I want to use points for more nights, I need to do it on computer.

I then headed to computer to book and found out account can not be accessed, I knew what happened as many Chinese member already mentioned countless times what the message they got when account was closed.

I still gave a call to PCR, after giving them my account number, they told me my account was closed, but no point anyway. I then asked them to check again, she put me on hold then told me the reason I mentioned in first post. I knew it's not gonna get to anywhere with them over the phone. I hang up then went back to hotel to tell them the account was closed, I need to pay for today.

The front desk was very nice, they gave me a better rate than online as Platinum.

I checked out today and move to the hotel next door.

olegator

did u used any kind of script or lots of multiple entries for 100points bonus?

yyliu88

yes, 1.5K to 2K for each of our accounts, but I am sure lots of member here did better than me

torcross

I get you , so they did honour the original booking on points but as your account was closed sometime from checking in to the following Saturday you would of had to pay for the nights after reward nights ended.

I agree that something is flagging to PC automatically as you say large point redemption and then an actual person seams to intervene as I don't believe also that it is credit cards, or IP addresses (what happens if I go to my brothers and want to log to my PC account to show him a reservation or book something that could potentially trigger something, I really don't think so, if this did flag something I would be getting audited every week).

hope you get it sorted, but you don't sound hopeful

yyliu88

To be honestly, I don't care my accounts anymore, there are many programs that are customer friendly! And as I said, unless they closed every single members account on FT, otherwise, this is just a case discriminating Chinese. Will they close any one else here? of course not, looked how many reply the thread when they audit accounts.

Also countless people have dealt with Josh Ellerman already, he was extremely rude to Chinese. Unless I can pressure him from upper management, there is no way he would listen to me at all. He doesn't even listen to any RA, why would he listen to me。 Just found out, from a member who contacted him:"this action is designed especially for Chinese members, members from other countries could never encounter such crisis.

They are big corp, they don't really care about me or members in China because they think people in China would stay at their hotel even without loyalty program and they know nothing we can do as account closed by US Corp office. This is the biggest mistake they are making. they may not see anything now, let wait few more years.


Last, Josh Ellerman is just an assistant, do you think he can do all these without permission from head office?

About flag, they can look up account IP history. once I redeemed my award, they looked my IP, then matching with same IP, then looked at Chinese last name and first name, then bye! I said, my father account and mine shared nothing in common except same IP access and Chinese name.

no-backpacker

I don't like this at all! Although not in China or having a Chinese name, I think this is scary for all of us.

Xxx.

origin

We all understand that the latest offers from pc club was going to get some fraud. I am not saying that this case is fraud. But it would cause problems. There always is fraud at all levels. We might not call it fraud when getting the points, look at the ba thread with points from Tesco. However when we are staying in a hotel whilst someone else who has stolen his points then they raid anything and everything, even using up allocated room rates. Then we complain.

It would appear from what is being said. That China is leading the way for fraud. I dont think they are trying to attack the people, just the fraud. China is an important growth area for them. Therefore its not personal against them.

Okay as for the IP address. Well I know I have more thatn one account. I dont access because I can rememeber the details. But years ago I did access them. So its nice to see that PI are starting to close the accounts not used, or more than one. Hilton do. They close old accounts. Maybe the poster has another account. Using the ip address is a risk as some companies external ip address is the same for everyone in the office.

Dave Noble

I have read the posts and there is no evidence, only claims that there is some targetting of chinese people

Someone claiming a prejudice exists does not mean that one does exist

NickB

Maybe that is your answer. PCR is looking for a pattern rather than basing itself on a single criterion, such as large redemption, pattern of code registration that suggests scripting, multiple accounts linked to the same address and perhaps other, as yet unidentified, characteristics.

They decide, on the basis of that, that, on balance, there is a high likelihood of improper use of the programme. They will no doubt overshoot and undershoot with this: some individuals they would wish to catch won't be caught and others which are genuine users who have been a little naughty but no more than many others will be caught. However, if there are large number of accounts concerned, the cost of carrying out a detailed investigation on each of them outweighs the benefit of keeping a few genuine customers. So, they accept that they will boot out some people they should not on the basis that, overall, it is still beneficial to them to do so.

They tell you that the offending pattern is 'too many codes' but it does not follow from that that this is the only real reason why they targetted you. It is just that this is one which they can objectively use. The fact that others with an equally abundant number of codes are not caught is neither here nor there. There is no obligation on PCR to boot out everybody who does not follow the terms of the program. It is their discretion, as shown with the survey fiasco: they could have booted out everybody who did multiple surveys but chose not to.

fireworksboy

You are aware that all airline and hotel programs have almost identical terms and conditions, right? They're all customer friendly until they decide to close your account.

IC6A

Someone does not claim a prejudice, may well not mean that one does not exist.

At this stage the evidence is there are more than 30 known PCR member account was shut down who registered all the codes found in Flyertalk posted by Radioman. And happenly they are all in Chinese names.

And the obviouse evidence is from the FT who talked to IHG and was told only Chinese is targetted.

I understand you always stand with the corporations (e.g. Qantas, IHG...). That might be your nature to defend big corporations you like. But please do not say there is no evidence as the reality is there for you to see. It is wrong for you to turn away and pretend all those reality does not exist.