AllThePants

I know there's a lot of cribbing going on about the Q2 promo vs the '20 Q4/ '21 Q1 promo. About whether the company is offering the right incentives to get the right people into the right beds. Granted, the Q2 promo is markedly less generous than the previous promo -- and steering people towards lower value properties. And yeah, it sucks for us balls-out Globalists who want to be getting free parking and many-points-incentivized rooms at luxury properties who aren't getting our duly deserved rewards for (largely discretionary) travel.

But I mean -- seriously -- I spent a week in Maui on points in Q2 -- when very few people in the world could -- and Hyatt's Marketing/FP&A departments didn't see it fit to refund me 46K points as an instant rebate for the privilege? Instead, they only gave me 7.5K back? Man, f* them! If I had known that beforehand I would've never done that because frack it's just not fair!

Well. Except not. I would've done it anyway -- even with no incentive in sight.

Seriously -- these are strange times. And we're learning more about them every day. As it stands right now, with the quasi-reopening of things, most of the high end luxury/resort properties seem to be experiencing inelastic demand. (i.e. if someone is paying $500-$1000/night on a *revenue* stay for room, it can hardly matter here or there to them whether they're paying an additional 60 bucks for parking).

And maybe the lower end properties might actually need a little help. Most of the Cat1/Cat2 HP's I've been to have usually been the 2nd/3rd best property in outskirts-ville destinations of whatever wedding / client site I've had the luxury of visiting. And they've been pleasant -- but with weddings / unnecessary business travel still a little rocky these days -- maybe the bolstering of those properties is exactly what the corporate mothership is going for.

All that said -- I *really* enjoyed the Q4/Q1 bonus journeys promo structure, and fully expect to be reaping the benefits until at least Feb 2023. But as the world (or at least the US) slowly tiptoes back into travel mode again, it's pretty reasonable to expect these companies to become more rational about their promo structures. Even if it's less beneficial to us on FT who are overly skilled at gaming this.

GrayAnderson

I'd also note that I suspect that the points rebate side of things was a desperate move to get folks to use points, given that (with a few odd exceptions, I suspect) most hotels were bringing in substantially less per room-night than they normally would be (alongside the amenity cuts). Put a bit differently, the rebate/effective cut in redemption costs was closer to an acknowledgment of the situation at a lot of hotels (which are starting to return some amenities in places) more than an inducement per se (or, a bit more bluntly, Hyatt acknowledging that those redemptions generally weren't worth the price and effectively knocking most hotels down a category...for example, I think it is hard to claim "full price" for a higher-end hotel [say, a Park Hyatt] with no open restaurant, no open pool, no spa, reduced or absent room service, and no hotel-affiliated parking).

GrayAnderson

I'm trying to sort out where to position myself between Hyatt and Marriott in 2022 (I know, a long way off...). To maintain Titanium and Globalist, I'd notionally need 135 nights...but in reality it's more like 100 or so as-is (deducting 15 for the Marriott CC, (5+[6-10]) for the Hyatt CC, 5 as my 50-night choice award at Marriott) and I can probably massage that down by another 20 if needed (if I can get the Business card from Marriott and flip the Hyatt CC). Allocating 80 nights between the two chains is likely to be easy in the long term (due to a footprint issue [Hyatt having nothing on the North Shore in LA], Marriott is a self-solving problem for Platinum at this point; it's Plat vs Tit that's the question).

hailstorm

For me, the previous promo is still going on. I'm a Globalist until 2023 as a result of a couple of cheap workcations. Everything else is gravy.

GrayAnderson

So, I will speak personally: The question of Hyatt's promotion driving traffic presumes that the promotion operates in a vacuum in inducing (or not inducing, or even deterring) traffic. This is not the case; it operates in the context of what Marriott, Hilton, and IHG (as the main three competitors with substantial US footprints and a substantial number of middle-to-upper-middle tier hotels...Accor has a limited US footprint that generally doesn't "reach down" while Choice has a large footprint but doesn't really "reach up") are doing (both in terms of present promos and in terms of overall program) and one's predisposition to them. It's a "totality of circumstances" question.

For me, personally, the question is between Marriott and Hyatt (both of whom I have substantial status with; notably, the late checkout that comes with the status in question is a major benefit because of my tendency to a "tilted" sleep cycle). Hilton would be a competitor if I had status there (I don't), and I have a circumstantial reason to consider Choice (there are a few weekends each year where a Quality Inn is my preferred location; I've presently just been dumping the often-limited stays to Amtrak). IHG is out of the mix for me for reasons both logical and illogical.

Anyhow...

Taking the presumption that I will drive traffic to either Hyatt or Marriott, right now the totality of circumstances predisposes me to Hyatt. I have qualified for the highest tier I am going to qualify for with each (more on this in a bit), so the urgent need to drive traffic somewhere is absent.

If there were no promo at Hyatt, the question would be more of a toss-up, but Hyatt hasn't been winning my business solely on the promotion situation (though Marriott royally screwing the pooch in Q2 helped...there is presently no promotion going on there, and their decision to make the promotion only apply to stays of 2+ nights so as to avoid mattress running means I'm that they lose out on a bunch of "en route" nights as a result, out of sheer frustration...given that I've been driving instead of taking the train/flying since this all blew up, Marriott's decision to exclude those nights from their promos has sown some serious ill will with me). I also feel there is a better baseline of quality control at Hyatt (Marriott can't be bothered to give a rat's you-know-what about a bunch of issues; it's bad enough that they probably need to shoot some franchises to encourage the others), better information about facility closures and the like (Hyatt is not quite perfect, but they're better than Marriott), and so on.

But the continual presence of a promotion at Hyatt (quite possibly on a timeline that will line the next promo up with the end of this one) creates a consistency whereas Marriott has allowed a gap to emerge. That's in Hyatt's favor. So are some of the incidental benefits: Marriott gives me the two Choice Awards at 50 nights and 75 nights, which is nice...but the 50-night one is mostly useless this year (five SNAs is nice, but it is really...well, not much to write home about [I have yet to bother with any of them], while the other options are close to useless [sometimes the five nights' credit has been useful in patching up to 75 nights, but that's not a problem this year]). I get sweet, lovely FA for anything else past 75 nights over there since I'm never going to hit the spend threshold for Ambassador (I think there's a good chance I'd have to get up close to 200 nights this year to actually hit the spend requirement!). With Hyatt, there's at least the four iterations of 10,000 points or a week-long suite upgrade to consider. Hyatt dropping a brick on resort/destination fees for Globalists is also a big plus (there's no equivalent over at Marriott, and they have plenty of hotels that are playing stupid games on that front), and nixing parking fees on award stays also helps, and the Work from Hyatt options aren't a bad plus, either (though there it becomes a question of weighing costs) since that knocks out parking fees on longer stays if you can get the rate to apply.

So while Hyatt's current promotion, taken alongside the overall program, might not induce me to stay nights at a hotel that I wouldn't otherwise spend at a hotel, it definitely succeeds in diverting business from Marriott. It might also convince me to marginally adjust a trip.

Now, Hilton has had some decent-looking promos as of late...but not having access to an included later checkout on single-night stays is a bit of an issue. And in the one case where there was a head-to-head between Hilton and another chain (Choice, as it happened), the Hampton Inn had no food service for months while the Quality Inn had a fully operating restaurant. That Quality Inn has probably diverted me permanently in the town in question (there's another town where they still lose out to an off-brand no-tell motel, but the motel in question wins because it has an excellent restaurant/bar attached).

HPN-HRL

I haven't done a thorough personal analysis of 2022 Hyatt vs. Marriott yet, as my Hyatt experiences this year may skew my preferences, but here is my current thinking, given that (like you) I have some trips where Marriott makes the most sense but others where Hyatt is a better fit:
- Marriott: Given my personal & biz CCs Plat only takes 20 nights, while Tit takes 40 nights after using the 50-night choice award for 5 elite nights. Without question I will get to Plat, if for no other reason than current Marriott IT claims that 2022 will be my 10th year of Plat, granting me lifetime Plat. (Long rant about Marriott IT deleted.) Tit doesn't give me much more; the 40K award cert is nice, and I like having UA Silver status as a backup to BA/AA & WN. In past years I would have automatically gone for Tit, but that is far from certain for 2022.
- Hyatt: One of the things that came to my attention from more closely scrutinizing the WoH program (due to Bonus Journeys) was that Explorist may be worth enough to me to try to keep even if I am unlikely to keep Globalist. I'm not yet sure if it will make sense for me to spend $15K on the Hyatt CC to get 6 nights credit (beyond the 5 nights all Hyatt CC holders get) plus a Cat 1-4 cert, but if I do that then I will only need 9 more nights to get 2 Club Access awards. If I get 19 Hyatt nights BIB I would have 4 Club Access awards and another Cat 1-4 cert, along with guaranteed 2:00 checkout (which is almost always enough for my needs).

Current conclusion: it looks to me like a toss-up between earning Tit + Explorist vs. earning Plat + Globalist in 2022; Tit + Globalist may be possible if I do some MS on the Hyatt CC. I will need to revisit this at the end of the year.

GUWonder

If Hyatt were to formally reduce Globalist status qualification to 30 nights/year, then I could probably persuade more people to go for Hyatt Globalist this year and in the years ahead. But given what Marriott and Hilton have out there for elite status acquisition/retention, it's going to take more than promos to get them to jump out of old habits once they get back to traveling more and more.

In the bigger picture, Hyatt's program and its promos aren't being done for the benefit of the hotel guests putting heads in beds as much as for what this program and promos are meant to do for Hyatt's relationship with Hyatt-affiliated hotels' owners/managers.

Matt4200

I agree with you, the promo is to benefit Hyatt’s relationship with franchisees.

However, with the current promo I’m willing to bet many of those franchisees are left holding the bag, so to speak. Hyatt’s marketing is supposed to get guests in the doors and to generate revenue for all properties, all categories and all brands.

So with the current promo I’m guessing that Grand Hyatt’s, Park Hyatt’s, Andaz, Hyatt Centrics, Hyatt Regencies, Ailila’s, and so on have really low occupancy overall. Sure there may be some Spring Break areas that have more business for the moment but that’s very short term, it doesn’t even last a full month. Other than that they’re left with the short end of the stick.

They need to generate revenue, and a lot of it, to make up for the last year. The current promo definitely helps lower end properties, the Hyatt Places and Hyatt Houses.

But you know what I’ve found throughout the pandemic?

Hyatt Places and Hyatt Houses had tons of business because they are the cheapest! They don’t need an extra boost. The properties that spent hundreds of thousands, some even millions on remodels, on luxury amenities and services those are the properties that direly need to get guests in the doors and sadly this promo just doesn’t get guests in those doors.

GrayAnderson

There's another option: Get the Brilliant Amex and run $75k over it. That'll comp you into Platinum and free you to dump nights to Hyatt.

rogo

If we use a crude measure of opportunity cost, that's about $1500 worth of lost rewards, or about $1000 after accounting for the Bonvoy points you get back.

Platinum on Marriott can be had for 2 credit cards and 20 nights. I'm not sure this is relevant to the concern above, but I'd be loath to charge up a bunch of stuff just to get Marriott Platinum. Spending the $$$ on Marriotts would come close to solving the problem for similar cost and also having 20 nights at Marriotts.

asnovici

Bonvoy Ambassador and Hyatt Globalist and I can tell you my Ambassador status is pretty much worthless IME. I am a Lifetime Titanium there and have no reason to stay at Marriott, unless there is no decent Hyatt option in town. Hyatt Globalist (and one day I hope Lifetime Globalist) is the status that actually gets one very recognizable return.

GrayAnderson

I don't presume that everyone can wrangle a Business card (even I've failed to patch that hole as of yet, though I should have a good excuse for it soon).

Also, it depends on the valuations you're assigning to those points (or indeed, the medium-to-long term utility elsewhere...at the moment I'm sitting on a painful surplus of miles for "elsewhere"), and I think this also ignores the "welcome bonus" on the card in question (currently 100k). If you get the card and charge $75k to it, you'll earn...I presume about 2.25-2.5 points per dollar spent (all baseline spending is 2 points per dollar, and I presume that at least some spending will be going into the various bonus categories). That's 168,750-187,500 points. The welcome bonus is 125,000 points as well, so the total earn on this strategy to "patch" a year would be 293,750-312,500 points. I don't know what value you'd assign to the points, but even going with 0.5 points/dollar (I suspect this is a low valuation), that's around $1500 (give or take). At TPG's 0.8 points/dollar, you're closer to $2500.

HPN-HRL

I already have the Brilliant card, but putting $75K of spend just to get to Plat is not worth it to me. I have 30 Marriott nights from CCs plus 10 or more nights a year in locations without a Hyatt option, leaving me with 10 or fewer Marriott nights needed to earn Plat. Thus I would gain no more than 10 Hyatt nights for $75K; at that point I would be better off to get those Hyatt nights by doing 10 nights of mattress running for ~$450 all-in. The trade-off for me is between doing an additional 20 Marriott nights (so ~35 nights beyond those I would give to Marriott in any case) to earn Tit status plus 19 nights @ Hyatt (to earn explorist via 5 automatic CC nights + 6 nights for $15K spend), or to not go beyond Plat with Marriott and instead get enough Hyatt nights to earn globalist. Right now I'm slightly leaning toward trying to keep globalist, but we shall see how well Hyatt works for me in the rest of this year.

MarkOK

As for the annoying part? I am referring to several promos that started on the second stay, not necessarily the one last summer (which I really don't recall). Tracking whether I have an odd or an even night at the end of this current promo (and if odd, deciding whether I want to do 1 more stay to get the bonus) is much less annoying than mattress running a 1 night stay right before a long stay just so that I can get any bonus. Usually, I don't have the time or the location to do such a thing, an I have missed out on thousands of points before because of this.

Your metaphor sounds fine, if
- you adjusted it so that it is 10$ off every second meal (again, you don't need even number stays with the current promo, you only lose any bonus by ending the entire promo on an odd numbered stay), And, after 10 meals, you also get a free entree up to a NY strip steak.
- and the steakhouse serves tons of burgers -- like 4 times more burgers than steaks. Those burger people are finding the $10 off promo to be just as good (maybe even better) than the 25% off deal. And they walk to the restaurant so the free valet parking on last quarter was meaningless to them.

There is value to lots of people with this promo, that doesn't mean that there is less value to some people though. I recognize that.

And back to the overall question -- does this promo entice new business?

The last promo was very enticing for point stays and mid-to-higher range cash stays. I went ahead and did a small spur of the moment trip I wouldn't have other done last fall, and extended a stay over new years because of it. That was the first time ever I did extra nights because of how 'cheap' it was considering the value of the promos.

Right now , I am enticed to do more stays as well, especially with the stacking of promos right now. Overall. I had had six nights under the current promo so far, and no planned stays until after the promo period ends. I have three Cat1-4 certs right now, and a new Cat4 I want to go to. There is also something I want to go to in a couple of weeks, where I can stay at brand new cat2 property nearby. By doing these two stays, spending my three certs at the Cat4 plus cash ($100) for the other property, I will get 9000 WoH bonus points between the current promo (5000 pts, I am a WOH CC holder) and the enhanced new hotel bonus (1000 points a night), 4000 AA points due to that targeted promo, a fresh Cat1-4 cert from the current promo, and will still pick up the 1000 regular points on the cash part (base points CC bonus, glob bonus). Parking will be free on the three award nights anyways, and on the 100$ cash stay, parking will be 7$.

Under the old promo, I'd only get 3500 from this (triple bonus + regular new hotel bonus). Of course, I would pay cash on the Cat4 ($700) instead of burning the certs, but it sure is nice to not burn cash right now. My grifter index as never been higher -- 43 nights credited to date, and less than $200 spend for the year.
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I feel that WoH is pretty much paying me to stay at Hyatts right now.

All told, I will have 10 nights under this promo,

Spending 3 cat1-4s, 114$ in cash, 25000 points; and a $100 Free WOH Gift Card

and I will get in return ~17,500 WoH points (2500 regularly, 10,000 bonus points, 5,000 new hotel points), 9,000 AA points, and a new Cat1-4.

And I am not just eating cheap burgers over here, this is 3 nights at brand new Cat4 HC, 4 nights at a pretty decent cat 1 HR (HR Wichita), 2 nights at brand new HPs, (and 1 night at a crappy HP).

Not bad. Not bad at all....

Matt4200

It feels like you’re again only considering your needs.

Hyatt Places and Hyatt Houses have always and will always stay busy regardless because they are the cheapest in the Hyatt chain.

So rather than comparing business at one restaurant it’s more like comparing business at McDonald’s vs. Outback vs. Mid-tier Steakhouses vs. Top Tier Steakhouses.

Then finding something that works for all 4 of those groups concurrently.

Since HH and HP continually stay busy regardless of if there’s a pandemic or not your focus shouldn’t be diverted to them. Rather to the Outback, the Mid Tier Steakhouse and the Top Tier Steakhouses.

Which is why the combination of the points rebate and triple points worked well.