bhrubin

ValleyGirlofVA

Any info on whether the hotel is looking to open on time?

OsakaWino

Ifou mean the announced opening of 30 Oct, 100% sure they will meet that date.

blitzen

Just checked an for the 2020 Sakura season they want app $2,500 a night and the nights were Monday-Thursday .... not sure if I want to spend 30k points but I would never pay USD 2500 per night either.
There must be a big appetite for luxury hotels in Kyoto .....

bhrubin

You’re kidding, right?

There is the RC, the Luxury Collection Suiran, the FS, and in November the Aman Kyoto opens. Plus the PH. Kyoto is a massive market for luxury due to its culture, temples, dining, Sakura, and falls colors.

OsakaWino

Still, it is a relatively recent appetite. Other than ryokan, 10 years ago there was zero demand for lux hotels in Kyoto. The Hyatt Regency was the most luxurious hotel in the city and we were frequently able to stay for little more than 10,000 yen. Even as late as 5-6 years ago the Hyatt Regency was still the most luxurious hotel and rooms were regularly available for under 20,000 yen, including T&S.

bhrubin

I think you might be mistaking demand for opportunity. Kyoto until recently had strict rules which limited new hotel construction. So the demand was there, while the availability of true luxury accommodation was not. In any case, I think it’s quite obvious the demand is there now!

Japan had been built more for the domestic market outside Tokyo until the last decade or so. Even Tokyo only recently has seen a boom in new hotel construction, partly due to the Olympics coming next year.

OsakaWino

Actually, I was using room rates as a simplified index of demand. Rates at HR Kyoto are now as much 4x what they were 10 years ago and 2-3x what they were 5 years ago, and I think that roughly equates to the increase in demand for luxury accommodations.

But back to the above comment by blitzen re being not sure about wanting to use 30k points/night at PH Kyoto. If thinking of a stay in Kyoto using WoH points, I have to say that I very, very, VERY much expect the PH to be worth the extra 5k points vs the HR. The PH is positioning itself on the same level as the RC and FS, where rates including T&S start at about 120,000 yen and peak at close to 300,000 yen. No one knows yet if the quality of the PH will actually be on par with the RC or FS, but certainly 30k points for the PH would seem to represent exceptional value.

bhrubin

I agree wholeheartedly. It’s a very nice HR, but I’d be very surprised if the PH isn’t that much better.

That being said, I often find that even luxury hotels need a good 6-12 months to sort themselves with all the details. So it well could be that the well-oiled and high quality HR offers a better service and F&B experience until the PH teams gets it together.

blitzen

it will be worth it. No doubt. But I am not looking for absolute luxury a solid hotel would do. But with the HR at 25k the extra 5k are well spend I think.

Nagasaki Joe

You have a point about the service since it takes new hotels time to get their service act together, but I wouldn't mention the Kyoto HR and PH in the same breath (granted, I haven't stayed at the PH yet and I'm basing this on what I've read and photos I've seen), and I'm not even sure HR is "high-quality" anymore. I'm assuming you've stayed there, but I thought it was disappointing. Facilities-wise I'd put it at a 20,000 point/night property, but it's only its location in Kyoto that allows it to go for 25,000 points. I'm not sure how long it can last as a Category 6 property. It's certainly not awful, and perhaps it's "high-quality" in certain aspects, you could even say it's a solid 4-star hotel, but the PH would have to have a major service malfunction to bring it down to HR's level, IMHO. I think the fact that the PH is only 5,000 points more makes it a stupendous bargain. Perhaps I'm being too harsh, but I see the HR Kyoto as a fading star, something like the HR Waikiki Beach (though HR Kyoto's facilities are better), only their locations keep them in a higher category. Then again, maybe the PH Kyoto is an overhyped PR psyop, but it sure doesn't look that way. If it does disappoint, you're right, it will be in the service area, but based on the photos, its difficult to imagine the hard product being a disappointment compared to the HR.

bhrubin

I stayed at both Suiran and RC but visited friends staying at the HR. It’s not in the same league as those, but it certainly is in the same league as the similarly dated but still well maintained PH Tokyo IMO. Its only 187 total rooms made it feel much more PH-like. Its style also feels PH-like. Its service was very good, even if not quite up to most 5 star standards—but Suiran and RC are at the top of their game (and better than the FS to most). The HR F&B was just fine; that was probably where the HR fell short the most to me, as well as lacking a sense of place (which isn’t an unusual aesthetic for many of the Hyatt brands).

The new PH certainly will be shiny and more gleaming, but service and F&B at new hotels—even luxury hotels—can take more time to settle than many want to remember. I don’t know how quickly that service will catch up to that of the HR, but I can assure and remind everyone that it will be months at least before a new luxury property like this gets itself properly sorted and operating at the expected level.

gengar

I wouldn't hesitate to book PH Kyoto over HR Kyoto even at a 10k premium much less the current 5k. As you said, the HR leaves a lot to be desired - it's likely a satisfactory property, but depends entirely on being in Kyoto to be considered a good property.

A lot of FT'ers (myself included) have stays booked at the PH through the end of the year so we'll see how they're handling opening pains.

OsakaWino

I'm a bit surprised at the lack of photos, considering that the hard opening is just about 5 weeks away.

metaphoreus

If you follow their Instagram profile, you’ll see they’re posting a lot of information about various services, amenities and F&B they’ll be offering. Still no room photos although they did post about what fixtures and fittings will be in the room. I think they’re deliberately not releasing anything until opening to create the hype.