Apr 5, 2014, 7:57 pm
Last edit by: skj
I'm making this thread a wiki since there are issues that keep getting repeated (breakfast and transportation from/to CDG). Feel free to add whatever you feel is important - stick to facts of please and not one off exceptions (eg if you get an upgrade to the Presidential Suite on an award stay without any status - that's definitely a one off that doesn't belong in the WIKI - obviously you can do a regular post on it).
Public transport to the hotel from CDG
The best option is to take the Roissy bus to Opera. From there, the hotel is about a 5 minute walk.
The next best option is to take RER B to Chatelet-Les Halles. All trains from Roissy/CDG head south into Paris so no worries there. Some go express all the way into Paris (Gare du Nord, so Chatelet-Les Halles is the second stop); others are locals, in which case there are a lot of stops; some are half-express, half-local ... but all stop at Chatelet-Les Halles; and there is no point waiting for an express because it is rare if ever that an express will overtake a local. So get on whatever comes first. At Chatelet-Les Halles, transfer to RER A for one stop to Auber (which is joined to Opera station). You will be heading westbound, toward the termini St. Germain-en-Laye/Poissy/Cergny. You have to go up the stairs and back down for the Auber-bound train. Do not race across the platform for the RER B because that will be heading eastbound, to Gare de Lyon, Nation, Vincennes (and, depending on which one you get on, eventually Eurodisney!) The walk from the Auber exit closest to the RER stop takes about 10 minutes.
Public transport to the hotel from Orly
Take the Orlyval train to its end at Antony, then switch to RER B to Chatelet-Les-Halles and continue as above. In this case you can just cross the platform from the RER B to get the RER A headed to Auber.
Breakfast
The breakfast at Cafe Jeanne is free for Globalist members but is 40-50 euros per person otherwise. A modified but still very good version of this buffet breakfast is also available in the room and is also free for Globalists. Tips are not covered but then again the theory in France is that the service charge is in the price.
Museum tickets & pass from the concierge
You can buy "skip the line" tickets to the Louvre or Orsay for 18€ each, which is higher than the regular tickets via the Louvre & Orsay websites. But being able to "skip the line" obviously adds some value. They will also sell you the two day Paris Museum Pass for 55€. That is a 7€ markup.
Phone/data recommendations:
Lebara worked really well for me. What you need to do:
• You must unlock your phone (you can do this for free online with ATT through their website if you are out of contract)
• Order free SIM card at Lebara.fr a few weeks before your trip. I don’t think it took more than 2 weeks for my SIM card to arrive
• Activate SIM card at https://www.lebara.fr/activate-sim-detail?isoCode=en_GB or search “activate SIM” at Lebara.fr
• Load your SIM card with what you need. I paid 10 euro for 3G of data, unlimited SMS and local calls for 10 days (this should be plenty for most tourists)
LeFrench Mobile did not work so well for me: I paid 20-30 euro for local and international calls for my sister but was only able to make local calls and SMS
restaurant recommendations:
Nearby:
(We're here on 1 Oct 2021 and it appears this restaurant is closed permanently ...) Le Cap Bourbon- good, inexpensive, our server was nice and attentive (by French standards), great local crowd, menu has English translation
We ate a local Thai restaurant - Yo - its about a 5 minute walk from the hotel and very busy. I had a guinea fowl green curry - a first for me. Very good food and friendly service.
Other:
L'Avant Comptoir is a wine bar with great,relatively cheap eats and a great atmosphere and friendly, English-speaking staff. Standing room only and tight.
Public transport to the hotel from CDG
The best option is to take the Roissy bus to Opera. From there, the hotel is about a 5 minute walk.
The next best option is to take RER B to Chatelet-Les Halles. All trains from Roissy/CDG head south into Paris so no worries there. Some go express all the way into Paris (Gare du Nord, so Chatelet-Les Halles is the second stop); others are locals, in which case there are a lot of stops; some are half-express, half-local ... but all stop at Chatelet-Les Halles; and there is no point waiting for an express because it is rare if ever that an express will overtake a local. So get on whatever comes first. At Chatelet-Les Halles, transfer to RER A for one stop to Auber (which is joined to Opera station). You will be heading westbound, toward the termini St. Germain-en-Laye/Poissy/Cergny. You have to go up the stairs and back down for the Auber-bound train. Do not race across the platform for the RER B because that will be heading eastbound, to Gare de Lyon, Nation, Vincennes (and, depending on which one you get on, eventually Eurodisney!) The walk from the Auber exit closest to the RER stop takes about 10 minutes.
Public transport to the hotel from Orly
Take the Orlyval train to its end at Antony, then switch to RER B to Chatelet-Les-Halles and continue as above. In this case you can just cross the platform from the RER B to get the RER A headed to Auber.
Breakfast
The breakfast at Cafe Jeanne is free for Globalist members but is 40-50 euros per person otherwise. A modified but still very good version of this buffet breakfast is also available in the room and is also free for Globalists. Tips are not covered but then again the theory in France is that the service charge is in the price.
Museum tickets & pass from the concierge
You can buy "skip the line" tickets to the Louvre or Orsay for 18€ each, which is higher than the regular tickets via the Louvre & Orsay websites. But being able to "skip the line" obviously adds some value. They will also sell you the two day Paris Museum Pass for 55€. That is a 7€ markup.
Phone/data recommendations:
Lebara worked really well for me. What you need to do:
• You must unlock your phone (you can do this for free online with ATT through their website if you are out of contract)
• Order free SIM card at Lebara.fr a few weeks before your trip. I don’t think it took more than 2 weeks for my SIM card to arrive
• Activate SIM card at https://www.lebara.fr/activate-sim-detail?isoCode=en_GB or search “activate SIM” at Lebara.fr
• Load your SIM card with what you need. I paid 10 euro for 3G of data, unlimited SMS and local calls for 10 days (this should be plenty for most tourists)
LeFrench Mobile did not work so well for me: I paid 20-30 euro for local and international calls for my sister but was only able to make local calls and SMS
restaurant recommendations:
Nearby:
(We're here on 1 Oct 2021 and it appears this restaurant is closed permanently ...) Le Cap Bourbon- good, inexpensive, our server was nice and attentive (by French standards), great local crowd, menu has English translation
We ate a local Thai restaurant - Yo - its about a 5 minute walk from the hotel and very busy. I had a guinea fowl green curry - a first for me. Very good food and friendly service.
Other:
L'Avant Comptoir is a wine bar with great,relatively cheap eats and a great atmosphere and friendly, English-speaking staff. Standing room only and tight.
Park Hyatt Paris-Vendôme REVIEW - MASTER THREAD (Aug 2011 onward)
Apr 6, 2014, 3:41 pm
#2131
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Auckland NZ
Programs: SQ TPPS, EK Gold, IHG RA, Marriott Gold Hyatt Diamond, HHonors Gold, UA Premier Gold, TG Silver
Posts: 1,092
If you're looking for people who can speak English, or just a fantastic meal, try Bistrot Volnay (in Rue Volnay, behind the Hyatt. Just turn right and right again). We had the best dinner of our stay there. It's run by two women, who are excellent hosts, and happy to speak English. The Grand Marnier soufflé was out of this world!
Last edited by Wan1dap; Apr 6, 2014 at 5:08 pm
Apr 6, 2014, 4:34 pm
#2132
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,991
If you're looking for people who can speak English, or just a fantastic meal, try a Bistrot Volnay (in Rue Volnay, behind the Hyatt. Just turn right and right again). We had the best dinner of our stay there. It's run by two women, who are excellent hosts, and happy to speak English. The Grand Marnier soufflé was out of this world!
Apr 9, 2014, 6:14 am
#2133
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 422
I've had a strange -- and what is probably an outlier -- experience so far in only the first two nights of a six-night stay (two rooms total). Numerous, small hiccups in service/rooms, including:
-badly broken closet curtain (which required a technician to look at it for an hour, while my wife and I sat there waiting, ultimately to conclude that the problem required further fixing; then after requesting that further fixes be done after I check out of the hotel, another technician came back the next day and asked to stitch the curtain, and indicated after the short stitching work was done that MORE work was required)
-poorly functioning heating/AC unit
-failure to properly make up the bed
-intermittently flickering light directly over the head of the bed
-failure to deliver both NYT and WSJ papers to my room as requested at check-in (but delivering both to the second room, on another floor, when no newspaper were asked for that room)
-broken security lock on the door
-failure to replace coffee cup that was removed from the room for washing (the room comes with two larger coffee cups and two smaller espresso-sized cups)
Given the impeccable reputation of this hotel, I've been quite disappointed so far and have basically requested the hotel to leave me be in peace -- they can fix all the broken stuff when I'm gone (I'd rather not have a number of people come by my room one after another when I'm not around). Admittedly, these are all mostly small issues, and I didn't mind at first. But after four...five...six...etc. problems arose, I could not help but feel a bit annoyed. And I have only been here two days!
I have tempered my expectations; I hope now only that nothing else goes wrong. I do like the convenience of the location, but will likely go back to staying at the Le Grand up the street or elsewhere. I'm not impressed.
-badly broken closet curtain (which required a technician to look at it for an hour, while my wife and I sat there waiting, ultimately to conclude that the problem required further fixing; then after requesting that further fixes be done after I check out of the hotel, another technician came back the next day and asked to stitch the curtain, and indicated after the short stitching work was done that MORE work was required)
-poorly functioning heating/AC unit
-failure to properly make up the bed
-intermittently flickering light directly over the head of the bed
-failure to deliver both NYT and WSJ papers to my room as requested at check-in (but delivering both to the second room, on another floor, when no newspaper were asked for that room)
-broken security lock on the door
-failure to replace coffee cup that was removed from the room for washing (the room comes with two larger coffee cups and two smaller espresso-sized cups)
Given the impeccable reputation of this hotel, I've been quite disappointed so far and have basically requested the hotel to leave me be in peace -- they can fix all the broken stuff when I'm gone (I'd rather not have a number of people come by my room one after another when I'm not around). Admittedly, these are all mostly small issues, and I didn't mind at first. But after four...five...six...etc. problems arose, I could not help but feel a bit annoyed. And I have only been here two days!
I have tempered my expectations; I hope now only that nothing else goes wrong. I do like the convenience of the location, but will likely go back to staying at the Le Grand up the street or elsewhere. I'm not impressed.
Apr 9, 2014, 8:32 am
#2134
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: Everything is refundable
Posts: 3,727
I've had a strange -- and what is probably an outlier -- experience so far in only the first two nights of a six-night stay (two rooms total). Numerous, small hiccups in service/rooms, including:
-badly broken closet curtain (which required a technician to look at it for an hour, while my wife and I sat there waiting, ultimately to conclude that the problem required further fixing; then after requesting that further fixes be done after I check out of the hotel, another technician came back the next day and asked to stitch the curtain, and indicated after the short stitching work was done that MORE work was required)
-poorly functioning heating/AC unit
-failure to properly make up the bed
-intermittently flickering light directly over the head of the bed
-failure to deliver both NYT and WSJ papers to my room as requested at check-in (but delivering both to the second room, on another floor, when no newspaper were asked for that room)
-broken security lock on the door
-failure to replace coffee cup that was removed from the room for washing (the room comes with two larger coffee cups and two smaller espresso-sized cups)
Given the impeccable reputation of this hotel, I've been quite disappointed so far and have basically requested the hotel to leave me be in peace -- they can fix all the broken stuff when I'm gone (I'd rather not have a number of people come by my room one after another when I'm not around). Admittedly, these are all mostly small issues, and I didn't mind at first. But after four...five...six...etc. problems arose, I could not help but feel a bit annoyed. And I have only been here two days!
I have tempered my expectations; I hope now only that nothing else goes wrong. I do like the convenience of the location, but will likely go back to staying at the Le Grand up the street or elsewhere. I'm not impressed.
-badly broken closet curtain (which required a technician to look at it for an hour, while my wife and I sat there waiting, ultimately to conclude that the problem required further fixing; then after requesting that further fixes be done after I check out of the hotel, another technician came back the next day and asked to stitch the curtain, and indicated after the short stitching work was done that MORE work was required)
-poorly functioning heating/AC unit
-failure to properly make up the bed
-intermittently flickering light directly over the head of the bed
-failure to deliver both NYT and WSJ papers to my room as requested at check-in (but delivering both to the second room, on another floor, when no newspaper were asked for that room)
-broken security lock on the door
-failure to replace coffee cup that was removed from the room for washing (the room comes with two larger coffee cups and two smaller espresso-sized cups)
Given the impeccable reputation of this hotel, I've been quite disappointed so far and have basically requested the hotel to leave me be in peace -- they can fix all the broken stuff when I'm gone (I'd rather not have a number of people come by my room one after another when I'm not around). Admittedly, these are all mostly small issues, and I didn't mind at first. But after four...five...six...etc. problems arose, I could not help but feel a bit annoyed. And I have only been here two days!
I have tempered my expectations; I hope now only that nothing else goes wrong. I do like the convenience of the location, but will likely go back to staying at the Le Grand up the street or elsewhere. I'm not impressed.
You have to read the comments from the folks staying there continuously and not the ones from guests who got the Hyatt credit card and normally do not stay at such properties.
The place is more than ten years old now and the age is starting to show, let it be the curtains, the whirlpool jets or certain parts of the interior that are closer to the 1990's than the second decade of the 21st century.
But in any case, the IC Le Grand is really not up to the standards of the PH Vendome.
But you should not except perfection at Vendome, the really perfect places in Paris are still ~50% more expensive.
Apr 9, 2014, 8:38 am
#2135
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 422
Edit: and just to be clear and add context -- I am not one who usually stays at 800 Euros/nt hotels, though I have stayed in my fair share of them. I am a fairly simple traveler, not needing too much, but can and do appreciate the finer services and accommodations at nicer hotels. Given that my expectations are likely to be somewhat simpler than one who usually stays at such hotels, I am that much more surprised by the annoyances thus far on my stay. Re: Le Grand, you're definitely right, but given my experiences thus far, that hotel delivers value closer to its cost than PH Vendome.
Edit: forgot to add that the paper pad and pen on the desk disappeared yesterday (which actually did come into play when I tried to write down a number from a voice message). To their credit, it re-appeared today when I came back from walking around the city. But what else can they bungle at this point?
Last edited by andysiz; Apr 9, 2014 at 9:22 am
Apr 9, 2014, 9:44 am
#2136
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 775
Great points, and lesson (above) learned.
Edit: and just to be clear and add context -- I am not one who usually stays at 800 Euros/nt hotels, though I have stayed in my fair share of them. I am a fairly simple traveler, not needing too much, but can and do appreciate the finer services and accommodations at nicer hotels. Given that my expectations are likely to be somewhat simpler than one who usually stays at such hotels, I am that much more surprised by the annoyances thus far on my stay. Re: Le Grand, you're definitely right, but given my experiences thus far, that hotel delivers value closer to its cost than PH Vendome.
Edit: forgot to add that the paper pad and pen on the desk disappeared yesterday (which actually did come into play when I tried to write down a number from a voice message). To their credit, it re-appeared today when I came back from walking around the city. But what else can they bungle at this point?
Edit: and just to be clear and add context -- I am not one who usually stays at 800 Euros/nt hotels, though I have stayed in my fair share of them. I am a fairly simple traveler, not needing too much, but can and do appreciate the finer services and accommodations at nicer hotels. Given that my expectations are likely to be somewhat simpler than one who usually stays at such hotels, I am that much more surprised by the annoyances thus far on my stay. Re: Le Grand, you're definitely right, but given my experiences thus far, that hotel delivers value closer to its cost than PH Vendome.
Edit: forgot to add that the paper pad and pen on the desk disappeared yesterday (which actually did come into play when I tried to write down a number from a voice message). To their credit, it re-appeared today when I came back from walking around the city. But what else can they bungle at this point?
Apr 9, 2014, 9:57 am
#2137
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 422
This morning I got a response from the Director of Rooms with a short apology and an offer to meet in person (of course I declined; don't need to expend more of my time). Yet, despite my request to have any further repairs done after I check out, about five minutes after I returned to my room midday today, a technician showed up at my door and requested a little time to work on the curtains! Given his assurances that the work would only last a few minutes (and it did, though he indicated that further work would need to be done), I let him in and do his work. I responded to the Director of Rooms about this, and he assured me no further crew would come to disturb me.
All in all, an unimpressive response. But I figure I need to spend less time worrying about these issues and enjoying the city.
Last edited by andysiz; Apr 9, 2014 at 10:16 am
Apr 9, 2014, 10:48 am
#2138
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 775
Great advice -- I didn't have the contact for the hotel manager (shift, general, or otherwise), so I sent an email last night to the concierge desk (with whom I have exchanged several emails re: reservations, etc. quite satisfactorily) and asked them to forward the email appropriately.
This morning I got a response from the Director of Rooms with a short apology and an offer to meet in person (of course I declined; don't need to expend more of my time). Yet, despite my request to have any further repairs done after I check out, about five minutes after I returned to my room midday today, a technician showed up at my door and requested a little time to work on the curtains! Given his assurances that the work would only last a few minutes (and it did, though he indicated that further work would need to be done), I let him in and do his work. I responded to the Director of Rooms about this, and he assured me no further crew would come to disturb me.
All in all, an unimpressive response. But I figure I need to spend less time worrying about these issues and enjoying the city.
This morning I got a response from the Director of Rooms with a short apology and an offer to meet in person (of course I declined; don't need to expend more of my time). Yet, despite my request to have any further repairs done after I check out, about five minutes after I returned to my room midday today, a technician showed up at my door and requested a little time to work on the curtains! Given his assurances that the work would only last a few minutes (and it did, though he indicated that further work would need to be done), I let him in and do his work. I responded to the Director of Rooms about this, and he assured me no further crew would come to disturb me.
All in all, an unimpressive response. But I figure I need to spend less time worrying about these issues and enjoying the city.
Apr 9, 2014, 11:16 am
#2139
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,991
Impeccable reputation?
You have to read the comments from the folks staying there continuously and not the ones from guests who got the Hyatt credit card and normally do not stay at such properties.
The place is more than ten years old now and the age is starting to show, let it be the curtains, the whirlpool jets or certain parts of the interior that are closer to the 1990's than the second decade of the 21st century.
But in any case, the IC Le Grand is really not up to the standards of the PH Vendome.
But you should not except perfection at Vendome, the really perfect places in Paris are still ~50% more expensive.
You have to read the comments from the folks staying there continuously and not the ones from guests who got the Hyatt credit card and normally do not stay at such properties.
The place is more than ten years old now and the age is starting to show, let it be the curtains, the whirlpool jets or certain parts of the interior that are closer to the 1990's than the second decade of the 21st century.
But in any case, the IC Le Grand is really not up to the standards of the PH Vendome.
But you should not except perfection at Vendome, the really perfect places in Paris are still ~50% more expensive.
I have found that most of the hotels throughout Europe are showing some signs of aging and most likely attributed to the economic conditions there.
In any event PHV is still my "go to" when in Paris. And returning in November quite possibly having Thanksgiving Dinner there.
Apr 9, 2014, 1:13 pm
#2140
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,602
While those shortfalls in service are undoubtedly unpleasant, one should not forget that the hotel continuously tries to improve the product. The design is an Ed Tuttle classic and they try to keep it immaculate but also added and changed a couple of things over the years. The addition of electric blinds come to my mind, the Prestige Suite disappeared in favor of new suite options (more residential in style), new carpets in hallways and rooms (gone is the grey), new furniture (new, modern, sofas that first appeared in the higher-end suites and made their way to Park Suites and Deluxe Rooms), the fresh lemon-y Blaise scent, a rethought amenity-kit, Japanese Toto washlets in some of the rooms, etc..
Some of the rooms down in the pecking order are prone to scratches and wear, but the yearly renovations are done very well. I wish all of the Hyatts were like that! It really comes down to which room is assigned and the guest history. A friend of mine forgot to add his GP account last month and the system must have not picked up his details, so when he arrived, there was no duty manager waiting, but rather a dark room with many problems after a long wait, no macarons & champagne and no extra care from the Concierge team - a completely different hotel.
Some of the rooms down in the pecking order are prone to scratches and wear, but the yearly renovations are done very well. I wish all of the Hyatts were like that! It really comes down to which room is assigned and the guest history. A friend of mine forgot to add his GP account last month and the system must have not picked up his details, so when he arrived, there was no duty manager waiting, but rather a dark room with many problems after a long wait, no macarons & champagne and no extra care from the Concierge team - a completely different hotel.
Apr 9, 2014, 1:31 pm
#2141
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 775
While those shortfalls in service are undoubtedly unpleasant, one should not forget that the hotel continuously tries to improve the product. The design is an Ed Tuttle classic and they try to keep it immaculate but also added and changed a couple of things over the years. The addition of electric blinds come to my mind, the Prestige Suite disappeared in favor of new suite options (more residential in style), new carpets in hallways and rooms (gone is the grey), new furniture (new, modern, sofas that first appeared in the higher-end suites and made their way to Park Suites and Deluxe Rooms), the fresh lemon-y Blaise scent, a rethought amenity-kit, Japanese Toto washlets in some of the rooms, etc..
Some of the rooms down in the pecking order are prone to scratches and wear, but the yearly renovations are done very well. I wish all of the Hyatts were like that! It really comes down to which room is assigned and the guest history. A friend of mine forgot to add his GP account last month and the system must have not picked up his details, so when he arrived, there was no duty manager waiting, but rather a dark room with many problems after a long wait, no macarons & champagne and no extra care from the Concierge team - a completely different hotel.
Some of the rooms down in the pecking order are prone to scratches and wear, but the yearly renovations are done very well. I wish all of the Hyatts were like that! It really comes down to which room is assigned and the guest history. A friend of mine forgot to add his GP account last month and the system must have not picked up his details, so when he arrived, there was no duty manager waiting, but rather a dark room with many problems after a long wait, no macarons & champagne and no extra care from the Concierge team - a completely different hotel.
Apr 9, 2014, 2:52 pm
#2142
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Auckland NZ
Programs: SQ TPPS, EK Gold, IHG RA, Marriott Gold Hyatt Diamond, HHonors Gold, UA Premier Gold, TG Silver
Posts: 1,092
agree and good points The Grand is far worse than the PHV. I am very surprised that this person had so many issues and did not see where they went down to the front desk and discussed this with the GM? Certainly that should have resolved the issues, i.e. new room.
I have found that most of the hotels throughout Europe are showing some signs of aging and most likely attributed to the economic conditions there.
In any event PHV is still my "go to" when in Paris. And returning in November quite possibly having Thanksgiving Dinner there.
I have found that most of the hotels throughout Europe are showing some signs of aging and most likely attributed to the economic conditions there.
In any event PHV is still my "go to" when in Paris. And returning in November quite possibly having Thanksgiving Dinner there.
Apr 9, 2014, 2:58 pm
#2143
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,991
I don't mean to offend, but just checking you realise there's no such thing as Thanksgiving in France? Didn't want you to get your expectations up, only to be disappointed! Of course, celebrating Thanksgiving there is definitely doable, given the dining choices - but it's just another day to the French.
I have British friends that celebrate 4th of July because they got rid of "us colonialist " !!!
Apr 9, 2014, 3:14 pm
#2144
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 775
That was a "tongue and cheek" remark. per se. Having spent many years abroad during US Holidays I have always found that there is some acknowledgment some more prominent than others.
I have British friends that celebrate 4th of July because they got rid of "us colonialist " !!!
I have British friends that celebrate 4th of July because they got rid of "us colonialist " !!!
Apr 9, 2014, 4:59 pm
#2145
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: MCO, YEG
Posts: 1,182
Not entirely on topic, but hopefully not so far off topic as to offend:
Does PHV have any connecting rooms? And, pushing the envelope even a little further, does Madeleine?
Sorry, found several mentions of connecting rooms, no need to answer my stupid question!
Does PHV have any connecting rooms? And, pushing the envelope even a little further, does Madeleine?
Sorry, found several mentions of connecting rooms, no need to answer my stupid question!
Last edited by farnorthtrader; Apr 9, 2014 at 5:27 pm