2013 Changes to HH Reward Stays, new cat., more pts needed
Feb 19, 2013, 4:47 pm
#151
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Monterey, California
Programs: Affiliated with all, participate in some
Posts: 2,188
This is all breaking news and I have not read all these pages in the thread yet.
My first thought is the 5th night free is a huge devaluation if that is the replacement for VIP awards.
HHonors elite member GLON awards already were 5th night free with the 20% discount.
VIP Cat 7 award for 5 nights was 200,000 points instead of 250,000 points. That is 5th night free.
Longer stays gave 25% discount.
If I read the change correctly, then an 8 night stay at a category 7 hotel (today 50,000 points/night) that is 300,000 points for an 8-night award (400,000 points with 25% discount) will now cost 350,000 points; an increase of 50,000 points. And if that category 7 hotel has moved to a category 8 and has peak season rates, then it could be 70,000 points per night.
8 night award stay at 70,000 points per night = 560,000 points with 5th night free = 490,000 points.
490,000 points as a Cat 8 peak season with 5th night free.
From 300,000 to 490,000 points for the same hotel six weeks from now.
That is a huge devaluation.
My first thought is the 5th night free is a huge devaluation if that is the replacement for VIP awards.
HHonors elite member GLON awards already were 5th night free with the 20% discount.
VIP Cat 7 award for 5 nights was 200,000 points instead of 250,000 points. That is 5th night free.
Longer stays gave 25% discount.
If I read the change correctly, then an 8 night stay at a category 7 hotel (today 50,000 points/night) that is 300,000 points for an 8-night award (400,000 points with 25% discount) will now cost 350,000 points; an increase of 50,000 points. And if that category 7 hotel has moved to a category 8 and has peak season rates, then it could be 70,000 points per night.
8 night award stay at 70,000 points per night = 560,000 points with 5th night free = 490,000 points.
490,000 points as a Cat 8 peak season with 5th night free.
From 300,000 to 490,000 points for the same hotel six weeks from now.
That is a huge devaluation.
Feb 19, 2013, 4:48 pm
#152
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: YYZ
Programs: SPG Plat,MR Plat Spire Plat/IC Amb, Choice Plat, BW Plat
Posts: 1,320
Well in "the good ole days" status and points were based on stays. Devaluation only came when they started minting points with credit card use. Now you can get Diamond without spending a night in a Hilton property. What does this tell you about their definition of loyalty. The hotel chains need to decide what business they are in. Yes Marriott last week, Hilton this week and I'm sure SPG and Hyatt will follow. Conrad Hilton must be rolling in his grave, the Hotels he built now care more about what credit card people use.
Feb 19, 2013, 4:48 pm
#153
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
Well in "the good ole days" status and points were based on stays. Devaluation only came when they started minting points with credit card use. Now you can get Diamond without spending a night in a Hilton property. What does this tell you about their definition of loyalty. The hotel chains need to decide what business they are in. Yes Marriott last week, Hilton this week and I'm sure SPG and Hyatt will follow. Conrad Hilton must be rolling in his grave, the Hotels he built now care more about what credit card people use.
Feb 19, 2013, 4:50 pm
#154
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Monterey, California
Programs: Affiliated with all, participate in some
Posts: 2,188
Well in "the good ole days" status and points were based on stays. Devaluation only came when they started minting points with credit card use. Now you can get Diamond without spending a night in a Hilton property. What does this tell you about their definition of loyalty. The hotel chains need to decide what business they are in. Yes Marriott last week, Hilton this week and I'm sure SPG and Hyatt will follow. Conrad Hilton must be rolling in his grave, the Hotels he built now care more about what credit card people use.
Feb 19, 2013, 4:53 pm
#155
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
Programs: LH HON, BA Gold, EK Gold
Posts: 14,505
Note to self: extremeley stupid to keep ca. 1 million points in my HH account.
Feb 19, 2013, 4:54 pm
#156
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: ABE
Programs: DL DM, IHG Spire, Mariott Platinum (UA SI) Avis First, National Executive
Posts: 764
There are some good things and some not so good things about this...
(and I am not going to mention the doubling of luxury properties - this is somewhat irrelevant to my use of hhonors points)
The good things:
5th night free
the low levels of 5 and 10K points (which include Doubletrees and Hamptons - I did not go through the whole list yet.)
For me the biggest issue is the jump of pretty much every single Hampton in the Northeast and Florida that was 12.5K points to 30K points. In the past I made quick and cheap weekend gateways using those 12.5K point Hamptons, but not any more. From what I've seen most of the 10K properties are in the South, Midwest and Southwest.
I guess if someone is still planning on vacationing with points he/she can still do it, but it will be Mexico (lots of cat 1 hotels there) instead of Fiji....
What I'd love to see is some sort of an apples to apples comparison about how many points one $100 stay gets you at Hilton, Marriott, Hyatt, SPG etc and how many $100 bills you need to spend for a free night in the bulk of their properties (I suspect that would be the level 4 30-40K level for Hhonors.) This kind of comparison makes sense. My experience in the past was the Hyatt and SPG points were a beast to accumulate and I cannot remember the last time I stayed at a Marriott...
Unless I see some comparative data (like the one suggested above,) I am taking this with a grain of salt.
(and I am not going to mention the doubling of luxury properties - this is somewhat irrelevant to my use of hhonors points)
The good things:
5th night free
the low levels of 5 and 10K points (which include Doubletrees and Hamptons - I did not go through the whole list yet.)
For me the biggest issue is the jump of pretty much every single Hampton in the Northeast and Florida that was 12.5K points to 30K points. In the past I made quick and cheap weekend gateways using those 12.5K point Hamptons, but not any more. From what I've seen most of the 10K properties are in the South, Midwest and Southwest.
I guess if someone is still planning on vacationing with points he/she can still do it, but it will be Mexico (lots of cat 1 hotels there) instead of Fiji....
What I'd love to see is some sort of an apples to apples comparison about how many points one $100 stay gets you at Hilton, Marriott, Hyatt, SPG etc and how many $100 bills you need to spend for a free night in the bulk of their properties (I suspect that would be the level 4 30-40K level for Hhonors.) This kind of comparison makes sense. My experience in the past was the Hyatt and SPG points were a beast to accumulate and I cannot remember the last time I stayed at a Marriott...
Unless I see some comparative data (like the one suggested above,) I am taking this with a grain of salt.
Feb 19, 2013, 4:56 pm
#157
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 543
Here's the math I just did, and it's going to influence how I use my credit cards going forward. I'd imagine AmEx is a big source of income for Hilton, but I don't think they'll be getting my business any more.
Conrad Tokyo is now 95,000 points I believe? Best available rate including taxes is about 43,000 JPY and prepaid rate is 36,500 JPY (I picked a random date in June). Let's take an average exchange rate of 90 to the dollar. That's $475 for the best available rate and about $405 for the prepaid rate.
95,000 points. That equals about $32,000 in unbonuses credit card spend, or $19,000 in bonused spend. Not that it ever made sense, but I'm not longer even considering my HH AmEx for unbonused spend. I could get $640 back for that $32,000. And even for bonused spend at 5 pts/$ under the new earning structure coming up in May, I'm trading off $380 in cold hard cash at 2% back for a room worth anywhere from $405 to $475, depending on how flexible I am. There's still value to be had from the HH credit card, I suppose, but it's mighty weak.
I've had my Hilton AmEx since '05, so it's staying active to keep my average account age up, but I'm just no longer excited about the program.
Conrad Tokyo is now 95,000 points I believe? Best available rate including taxes is about 43,000 JPY and prepaid rate is 36,500 JPY (I picked a random date in June). Let's take an average exchange rate of 90 to the dollar. That's $475 for the best available rate and about $405 for the prepaid rate.
95,000 points. That equals about $32,000 in unbonuses credit card spend, or $19,000 in bonused spend. Not that it ever made sense, but I'm not longer even considering my HH AmEx for unbonused spend. I could get $640 back for that $32,000. And even for bonused spend at 5 pts/$ under the new earning structure coming up in May, I'm trading off $380 in cold hard cash at 2% back for a room worth anywhere from $405 to $475, depending on how flexible I am. There's still value to be had from the HH credit card, I suppose, but it's mighty weak.
I've had my Hilton AmEx since '05, so it's staying active to keep my average account age up, but I'm just no longer excited about the program.
Feb 19, 2013, 5:00 pm
#158
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,720
Here's the math I just did, and it's going to influence how I use my credit cards going forward. I'd imagine AmEx is a big source of income for Hilton, but I don't think they'll be getting my business any more.
Conrad Tokyo is now 95,000 points I believe? Best available rate including taxes is about 43,000 JPY and prepaid rate is 36,500 JPY (I picked a random date in June). Let's take an average exchange rate of 90 to the dollar. That's $475 for the best available rate and about $405 for the prepaid rate.
95,000 points. That equals about $32,000 in unbonuses credit card spend, or $19,000 in bonused spend. Not that it ever made sense, but I'm not longer even considering my HH AmEx for unbonused spend. I could get $640 back for that $32,000. And even for bonused spend at 5 pts/$ under the new earning structure coming up in May, I'm trading off $380 in cold hard cash at 2% back for a room worth anywhere from $405 to $475, depending on how flexible I am. There's still value to be had from the HH credit card, I suppose, but it's mighty weak.
I've had my Hilton AmEx since '05, so it's staying active to keep my average account age up, but I'm just no longer excited about the program.
Conrad Tokyo is now 95,000 points I believe? Best available rate including taxes is about 43,000 JPY and prepaid rate is 36,500 JPY (I picked a random date in June). Let's take an average exchange rate of 90 to the dollar. That's $475 for the best available rate and about $405 for the prepaid rate.
95,000 points. That equals about $32,000 in unbonuses credit card spend, or $19,000 in bonused spend. Not that it ever made sense, but I'm not longer even considering my HH AmEx for unbonused spend. I could get $640 back for that $32,000. And even for bonused spend at 5 pts/$ under the new earning structure coming up in May, I'm trading off $380 in cold hard cash at 2% back for a room worth anywhere from $405 to $475, depending on how flexible I am. There's still value to be had from the HH credit card, I suppose, but it's mighty weak.
I've had my Hilton AmEx since '05, so it's staying active to keep my average account age up, but I'm just no longer excited about the program.
The key to this game is that you must be diversified in many of the programs and see which has the best point to dollar ratio for a given area.
I would hazard to say that the 2 free weekend nights from the Citi Reserve card just became more valuable, not less.
Feb 19, 2013, 5:03 pm
#159
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
I think their wording is clear as mud. I also read it that even if I don't modify an existing reservation the new rates will apply if I redeem after March 28th. (or am I misunderstanding "redeeming"? to me it is actually staying there, not reserving). Think I'll have to call in to see what they say.
The only hotel program allows you to redeem when not have enough pts in your account is Marriott's.
As bad as the news are, you get the old rate for any booking before midnight of the change over. However if you make any modification on those booked before the new rates become effective, those bookings will then require extra points based on the new chart.
The wordings are very clear to me. I think your confusion stemmed from your misunderstanding on what means Redemption.
Feb 19, 2013, 5:03 pm
#160
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: LAX
Programs: HHonor Dia, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 550
Seems perfectly reasonable to me as I value a HHonors point at 1/2 cent. So, some high value or city center properties went up, others actually went down in points.
The key to this game is that you must be diversified in many of the programs and see which has the best point to dollar ratio for a given area.
I would hazard to say that the 2 free weekend nights from the Citi Reserve card just became more valuable, not less.
The key to this game is that you must be diversified in many of the programs and see which has the best point to dollar ratio for a given area.
I would hazard to say that the 2 free weekend nights from the Citi Reserve card just became more valuable, not less.
(Well assuming they don't put limit on those free cert as well
)
Feb 19, 2013, 5:03 pm
#161
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: Hilton Diamond
Posts: 274
Great, just became a Hilton diamond last year and now my points have been severely devalued. I thought Marriott was bad, but this is ridiculous. I'm glad I got an axon for the Conrad Hong Kong last year. Hopefully I can burn the rest ASAP. I am so disappointed that I went for diamond and through base points. What a waste and I feel cheated since some hotels are now 100% more expensive!
Feb 19, 2013, 5:05 pm
#162
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
Seems perfectly reasonable to me as I value a HHonors point at 1/2 cent. So, some high value or city center properties went up, others actually went down in points.
The key to this game is that you must be diversified in many of the programs and see which has the best point to dollar ratio for a given area.
I would hazard to say that the 2 free weekend nights from the Citi Reserve card just became more valuable, not less.
The key to this game is that you must be diversified in many of the programs and see which has the best point to dollar ratio for a given area.
I would hazard to say that the 2 free weekend nights from the Citi Reserve card just became more valuable, not less.
Among the 3 devaluations, IHG's actually seem mild after we see the details of Marriott's and now HHonor's devaluation as IHG indeed has a good number of properties in secondary cities going down.
Last edited by Happy; Feb 19, 2013 at 5:10 pm
Feb 19, 2013, 5:09 pm
#163
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SFO, SIN, PVG
Programs: UA, AA, Hyatt, Marriott
Posts: 303
Feb 19, 2013, 5:14 pm
#165
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: West Coast USA
Programs: UA GS/4 MM, AA Exec Plat, Lifetime Hilton D, Hyatt G, Marriott Titanium earned Ambassador
Posts: 7,553
Just reserved award nights to bring my HHonors point balance down to insignificant. Now to break the news to my wife we are going on Holiday. Lots of holidays!
Just cxld upcoming weekend Hilton reservations and changed to Marriott. ^
Just cxld upcoming weekend Hilton reservations and changed to Marriott. ^