DanTravels

Oh, very. Our former governor and her administration tended to decide that really good ideas that would really benefit lots of people didn't need to be subjected to the red tape of things like environmental impact statements, and cut all kinds of corners in fast-tracking their approval, only to then have the whole house of cards come crashing down when someone pointed out that the paperwork was not in order. The "SuperFerry" wasn't the only thing that got killed due to that mentality.

Indeed. Reminds me I need to fly out of Kamuela sometime!

It's clear that on the whole HA doesn't have a monopoly - although I did recently start another thread pointing out that something like 88% of all seats ex-ITO are on HA. And come April, with YV gone, that figure will be more like 94-95%, depending on whether HA adds one flight a day to make up for YV's absence.

That said, although I wish I could get direct flights to more places ex-ITO, I'm usually perfectly happy to fly HA ITO-HNL unless it's cheaper to take UA through LAX. And I don't think ticket prices are all that bad, given fuel costs. Sure, I remember buying voucher books for $48 each way - but I also remember paying under $1 for gas (heck, I can remember it under $0.40 before I was old enough to drive), and now I'm happy if it's under $4.

cblaisd

There's a thread in the Hawai`i forum about the Superferry for those who are interested in the short-lived history of it:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hawai...ns-thread.html

iahphx

I am curious about the response of the locals to these transport woes. It always seems to be "Aw, this is bad -- it's a shame" -- but nobody actually does anything about it. If I lived on a neighbor island, I think I would DEMAND reasonable, affordable transportation options to Oahu (including a ferry). And if I lived on Oahu, it would still be very important to me, as I'd have friends and family I'd want to visit, and I'd like the opportunity to escape "the city" and relax in the "real Hawaii" at a price that made sense. Yet nothing ever happens. Why?

WrightHI

Because HA is actually doing a pretty reasonable job at a pretty reasonable price. On a quick search of SEA-PDX and a couple of other city pairs, $200 for an interisland round trip compares pretty favorably, and it's often possible to get $160-180 RT to anywhere but ITO. I also wish the SuperFerry had worked (and the story of its demise is at least as much about the unpredictability of the HI SCt as the Lingle Administration), but those channels are pretty daunting stretches of water. It's not like running a ferry across Puget Sound or even the Strait of Juan de Fuca.

iahphx

Well, most short haul mainland fares have gotten very high in recent years (it's ironic that we could use a European EasyJet -- which was modeled on WN, but which allowed it's costs to get too high to be a true low fare airline anymore). But mainlanders don't complain about it much for 2 major reasons. First, the TSA rules made short-haul flying a time-consuming PITA. Second, and more importantly, we generally have a great, cheap alternative: the car. If you're travelling less than 400 miles, the car is probably going to beat a plane almost every time when you factor in cost and convenience (especially for multi-person leisure travel).

But a car's not going to help you get around the Hawaiian islands. And you can't even take a boat. HA's cheapest ow fare between HNL and OGG next month is $86 -- and most flights are more expensive than that. It's 99 miles between those airports, and $86 works out to 87 cents a mile. Do really think that's "fair"? I don't think any mainland route gets close to that cost. I think it's outrageous, and Hawaiians deserve better.

HNLbasedFlyer

It's 99 miles! That is why it is so expensive - these are jets, think of the cost it takes just to get the plane off the ground in jet fuel - the cheap flying is at cruising altitude which this route does not enjoy.

DanTravels

99 miles as the crow flies, sure. If you imagine bridges between the closest points of Oahu and Molokai (say Sandy Beach and Papohaku Beach Park, more or less) and Molokai and Maui (somewhere before George Murphy Beach Park, and Kapalua), you're looking at more like 125-130 miles, given that the roads those cars travel on rarely go straight for far around here.

That's not as extreme as the 168 miles (including toll bridges/roads) one would have to drive to get from Lewes, Delaware to Cape May, NJ by car instead of taking the Cape May-Lewes Ferry... but a driver with a car (and no passengers) can expect to pay (at the cheapest fare, at the cheapest time of year) $56 round-trip for a shallow 17-miles-each-way crossing. That's $1.64/mile, and it takes an hour and a half to make that crossing.

Oh, and if you don't like paying $86 for a 99-mile flight, you should fly to ITO - it's the same price and more than double the distance!

ANC RED-EYE

Most likely go! Miles are dead and gone? Bummer, I would have eventually earned a one way.

azj

Exactly. To take the cost issue a step further… there are fixed and variable costs to operate an airline. HAL's fixed costs are essentially the same to move the 717, 767 and 330. Being that the 717 flies the shortest segment opportunities to generate revenue, they become the most expensive aircraft in the fleet to operate, on a per mile basis. Now, add the fuel and the other variable expenses and you've got an expensive operation. So HAL has to attempt to cover its costs and make money and at the same time remaining competitive in the marketplace by charging reasonable fares.

WrightHI

Outrageous compared to what? The geography is what it is, and the money to run airplanes or boats or whatever has to come from somewhere. It's easier to travel by car on the mainland because the geography works, not because HA is evil and predatory.

HNLbasedFlyer

I doubt it costs that much more to fly to Hilo than Maui - the cheap flying is when you are up in the air.

Besides, the plane probably weighs a lot less - lots of bags going to OGG and not so much for day trips to ITO.

beckoa

Probably-

Can you liquidate them into any other programs?

Can always write to HA and see if they'll match your balance

HNLbasedFlyer

They said on the news tonight that the end of service for go! is 6 years to the day Aloha stopped flying, how sad.

(Although looking it up, I think the last flight was Mar 31, 08.)

bitachu

i'm sad to see the 150$ rt demise..and what will I do with my 500 go miles..wasted...oh well...all i can do is remember the old days of 9$ per way interisland..

iahphx

I do not believe an efficient airline needs to charge $86 one-way for a 100 mile flight. Look at EasyJet's flights. Western Europe is about as expensive as Hawaii to operate in. Their comparable flights cost much less, especially if you can book ahead of time.

What's particularly odd to me is HA's pricing structure. I would think the elasticity of demand for interisland flights would be HUGE. Like you'd spend a weekend in Kauai if it wasn't going to cost you an arm and a leg. Yet, they don't seem to do much (if any) promotional advance purchase pricing these days like almost all other airlines do. Weird.

I do think Hawaii is ripe for an efficient start-up airline to offer a no-frills air shuttle between major airports. I haven't recently studied the economics of jet vs. non-jet, although I do recall the small plane makers claiming that turboprops are much cheaper to operate on short hauls. Planes like the ATR72. Of course, you're going to get some modest book-away from props. That said, regardless of which aircraft you used, a relatively high frequency no-frills "shuttle" between, say, HNL and OGG, would undoubtedly stimulate demand and be profitable at fares well below 87 cents/mile. Heck, for kicks, I'd like to see Spirit do this (even I would tolerate Spirit's poor product for a 100-mile flight).

I recently needed tickets between HNL and ITO. I looked at the fares and they seemed to start at about $107 ow. I immediately decided I'd rather spend 5,000 AA miles. Availability was excellent for this award.