I asked my OUL-based Lumo friend if he could consider flying Air Baltic OUL-HEL-OUL if they had a reasonable, say 15 kg, cabin baggage weight limit and a reasonable schedule with at least four daily flights in each direction. Absolutely, he said. I would claim that if AY does not backtrack, it will be only a matter of time before there is some competition on the OUL route.

I hear these complaints about "quarterly incentives" all the time, which are a) theoretically not true (stock prices reflect long-run expectations) and b) empty in the sense that there is no way to ever show them empirically. The fact is that in Europe (with state aid rules), not a single airline has moved in the direction of increasing service on shorthaul flights. Is this because of "quarterly incentives" and every CEO and shareholder is just too stupid to realize the potential for a "wow" factor, or maybe the FlyerTalk "business wisdom" that people (even some people) have a high willingness to pay for things like food on shorthaul flights is just wrong?

In terms of innovation, in the last 10 years AY has introduced a completely new longhaul business class product (one of the best out there atm), WiFi across (most of) the fleet, top class lounges for long haul flyers, introduction of a premium economy product etc.. to offer services in a market where you plausibly expect demand for them. A more comfortable bed on a longhaul business class flight is not something you can buy at the airport before the flight. The ability to work throughout a flight is not something you can buy at the airport before a flight. But the logic that you can charge a premium ticket price for offering services that can be bought for tens of euros (drinks on shorthaul, meals before a flight) obviously doesn't work, no matter how much people on here pretend they would pay (compare HEL-AMS prices on KL, which offers free drinks and a sandwich, to AY - there is no premium for KL).

OUL has historically had multiple airlines (SK, then DY), so it's more than possible that competition comes back, but if it does, it'll probably be because of high ticket prices as opposed to BT thinking they can steal away AY elites. If BT thought they could steal AY elites connecting to Europe from OUL, they'd open a route to RIX. The irony with this is that it is not the "full service" carriers (LH, KL, AF etc.) rushing to Finnish cities to compete with AY by offering a superior product but rather the low cost ones which unbundle everything. KL offers service to like 5 cities each in Norway and Sweden and 3 in Denmark, but only one year-round service to Finland (and a winter route to RVN).

Let's start with the share price - it would seem, that long term expectations are lower now than during the worst covid period.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...103516690d.jpg

Let's continue with "not a single airline has moved in the direction of increasing service on shorthaul flights" - that's what I meant with "race to the bottom" & "our next competitor is shite as well, why try harder" mindset. Sure way to success. Of course as long as you can count on the government to bail you out (do I hear 700m €?) you do not have to REALLY care.

I'm not sure if you're jesting about the lack of empirical evidence of the "quarterly economy/ kvartaalitalous" ?

Innovation:
- a new business class seat? Question of taste if you like it or not. But I give it to AY, they went for once in waters uncharted. (would have preferred C suites, but that's too "innovative", I guess)
- wifi? In 2023 I wouldn't call it exactly innovation, not even in 2013. BTW - have you flew recently on Embraers or ATRs? How was your wifi?
- top class lounges (plural?) - Plat Wing is nice when it's open (7:50 to LHR, anyone?), but innovation? In what sense?
- premium economy as an innovation? In 2023? Seriously?

- compare HEL-AMS prices on KL, which offers free drinks and a sandwich, to AY - there is no premium for K. - First, let's remember that HEL-AMS is in a large part just a feeder for KL's longhaul network. All pax flying P2P to AMS are just extra revenue.

Don‘t forget the recommendation to take a granola bar on your longhaul flight as well as the 0.20€ SAF purchase with each ticket „innovations“. ;)

Yes, your "quarterly economy" thing is like "neoliberal order," just an empty buzzword used if you want to criticize something without providing any substantive arguments. Somehow in our "quarterly economy", Amazon.com, a company that did not make a profit for 20 years since its IPO managed to have a valuation in the hundreds of billions of dollars before it reported its first annual profit. Somehow the largest companies in the world are all tech companies with high potential future profits instead of companies churning out money now.

On the other point: It's funny how you do the buzzword thing about "quarterly economy" and then provide direct evidence that the stock market factors in long run prospects instead of the next few quarters. The COVID lockdowns were always expected to be temporary, i.e. Finnair takes a loss for a few quarters, shuts down operations, and then resumes. Meanwhile Russia's exclusion is expected to last for many years, which actually dents long term profits. So it's completely logical for the share price to be more hit by recent events than by COVID. But hey, you got the nice buzzword - quarterly economy, it's a neat answer when everyone with better data, years of experience, hundreds of staff doing the math and so on does something you disagree with. Just like every leftist politician blames poverty on neoliberal economics and so on.

But even though a stock price graph does not say much about firm quality, the airline industry has some of the worst long-term economics of any industry. The main suppliers are a duopoly (A&B) and legalized cartels (labor) and then you have to compete with subsidized vanity projects from the Middle East. AY is in a position where their main market was wiped out overnight on February 24th, in an industry where they were barely profitable even before this. They're lucky that airfares are so high and they've been good at keeping costs down (though wait for those to rise once they report a serious profit again as everyone starts clamoring for their share), but let's see what the future holds. The only consistently profitable airlines are those that manage to free themselves from the strangle of the duopoly by placing large orders, from legalized cartels by being geographically flexible such as FR or EK, or those that come up with completely new business models where the profit does not come from flying (like US airlines).

Whether you think the products are "innovative" or not, they are clearly improving their product where it makes sense.

And you are missing the point on HEL-AMS. KL still sells tickets for HEL-AMS. Surely, since you think people value service on short haul flights, people would be willing to pay more for those flights than those on AY? Even if they're "extra revenue", why would KL intentionally take less extra revenue?

Speaking of KL, it seems at least AF will also discontinue free snacks on short haul and move to buy-on-board. Let me guess - they are also stupid, FT knows better and they are just focused on the next quarter?

Did you get any explanation? My wild guess is, and unpaid for (randomised) and complimentary seats and now up for grabs by anyone willing pay during check-in or any time prior.

Again, there is no difference between paid seat reservations and complimentary tier benefit seat reservations. As far as I know, there is no mechanism on Amadeus Altéa DCS to differentiate them. Furthermore, it would be mental that Lumos could be shuffled around while Basic Pena's seat would always be guaranteed.

Any seat reservations can be changed due to "operational reasons" and are regularly shuffled already these days, often erroneously. At least Florens has reported such errors.

I don't think on any airline you can choose a reserved seat by paying more (an auction system) for the seat.

I think "soft" seat assignments (when theoretical seating assigns all non-reserved customers to seats) can be overridden but they are not seat "reservations" as such.

Well, BT has definitely stolen this AY elite, and with a superior SH product.

Its actually way too common on ay for seats to be changed, quite annoying especially on longhaul flights...

Just my own experience.

On AF I have only had seat changes with equipment change or cabin shifting ie SH J being expanded. so I have been lucky as I am sure it happenes every where just seem more prevalant on ay

Is there any news about the duty free stuff included in the cabin baggage allowance?
The 10kg still do include airport purchases, don't they?
We might remember 2019 and 2021 the Spanish Court decisions against Ryan Air and Iberia regarding the cabin baggage allowance and their charged fees.
I think, AY will face some major resistance there...

Should I fly to AGP just to test it? They have Captain Morgan for 15 € / litre. 10 kg handluggage + 10 bottles = 25 kg :D

Not sure if this has been answered but what exactly is the OWE extra baggage benefit on AY new superlight tickets? On oneworld.com there’s this remark:

When you fly on oneworld member airlines, you can check-in an extra baggage for free, in addition to your ticketed baggage allowance. Extra baggage allowance for Emerald frequent flyers. As an Emerald frequent flyer, the following special checked baggage privileges will apply when you fly on oneworld airlines: On itineraries using the baggage allowance “weight” system - 20 kgs in addition to the ticketed-cabin allowance.

On itineraries using the “piece system” - one additional bag for free in addition to your ticketed baggage allowance.

Note: This benefit is not available on British Airways' 'Hand Baggage Only/Basic' fares.

Is this still valid or just missing update? What I’ve read, only published benefit is that free carry-on bag?

I know this may sounds weird, but I really prefer checking in my luggage.

Also, got one active reservation made before June 1st. Does the above apply to that reservation? During the booking process there was a pop-up according to which I’m allowed to 20kgs extra. Took a screen capture of that just to be on the safe side at the check-in desk.

OWEs can check one bag and additionally, have one normal piece of carry-on baggage as a tier benefit.

This page confirms no changes to oneworld tier members' checked baggage benefits.

Yes, but regarding checked baggage, each bag needs to be of up to 23 kg or else there is a charge of 80 euros per bag up to 32 kg, each way!

So, two bags of 22 kg, zero euros. But one bag of 24 kg requires the payment of 160 euros (return) of extra fee for everyone, including Emeralds!

Thanks kauppias, got two PE flights to BKK booked, using my remaining points and vouchers, guess I'm going to BKK this winter after all :D There's surprisingly a lot of PE award availability, for ex. HKG and Tokyo for September and BKK for December.