Originally Posted by Ed Size
(Post 30901214)
Sounds great, so I will discover the new route, was so bored with meals at Cox Bazar.
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Originally Posted by Ed Size
(Post 31005279)
Just been hit by this. Now I wonder how clear it really is that we are talking about "unforeseen circumstances" since this is going on for months. I find it a bit unfair that AY on the one hand side are not change the flight times officially (so everyone has the right to cancel his flights free of charge) and on the other hand side they play the "unforeseen circumstances" card and no one hit by this will get any kind of compensation.
If you booked your flight before the closure of the airspace, then the delay is caused by something exceptional. AY has had plenty of time to rebook passengers, and depending on what alternative flights there are available, AY might or might not have take all reasonable measures to avoid the delay, so compensation could still be due. If you booked your flight after the closure of the airspace, then it is not something exceptional unless you have reasonable reasons to believe that the airspace will reopen before the flight's departure. Instead, it is bad planning if AY doesn't publish accurate timetables. I think I read somewhere (BA forum?) that Pakistan extends the closure one day at a time with very short notification, so AY would probably argue that they had reasonable reasons to expect that the airspace would reopen. I'd say that this argument loses its credibility after the problem has been going on for a while., Unfortunately, it is unclear how a court would argue about this. |
Originally Posted by Some person
(Post 31005604)
Unfortunately, it is unclear how a court would argue about this.
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Originally Posted by Ed Size
(Post 31005347)
Which you most likely need to bring to court, since by the book the rules are on the side of AY. And AY was never very easy with EU261 claims.
So, I know which way to go :) I think in this case it's really better for both parties to rebook and I wouldn't think about the EU261 route if they'd be supportive, but alas... |
Originally Posted by quinzinho
(Post 31005659)
I used a claim agency, who after a while gave AY final warning before they'd go to court and then I got the money.
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Originally Posted by Some person
(Post 31005604)
I'd argue like this...
If you booked your flight before the closure of the airspace, then the delay is caused by something exceptional. AY has had plenty of time to rebook passengers, and depending on what alternative flights there are available, AY might or might not have take all reasonable measures to avoid the delay, so compensation could still be due. If you booked your flight after the closure of the airspace, then it is not something exceptional unless you have reasonable reasons to believe that the airspace will reopen before the flight's departure. Instead, it is bad planning if AY doesn't publish accurate timetables. I think I read somewhere (BA forum?) that Pakistan extends the closure one day at a time with very short notification, so AY would probably argue that they had reasonable reasons to expect that the airspace would reopen. I'd say that this argument loses its credibility after the problem has been going on for a while., Unfortunately, it is unclear how a court would argue about this. The EC 261/2004 argument falls afoul of the above. Furthermore, there are no other great options as, on any given day, the limited available routings may be more or less efficient and one takes what one can get. It is also worth noting that there is no precential authority for the proposition that a carrier must rebook on another carrier's flights. |
Originally Posted by Often1
(Post 31005794)
The air space is closed on a day-by-day basis (sometimes a few at a time). It is closed by government order. Anybody who suggests that they can peer into the minds of Pakistani authorities as to how they will handle this issue tomorrow or the day after, will have solved one of the most vexing international affairs issues since the 1940's..
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The flight that's most affected is AY121/122 to/from DEL. Flight times are about 2 hours longer each way than usual. Does anyone here have any recent experience whether they've updated the catering to reflect the longer flying times?
Right now, the planned opening date is April 24. Remains to be seen whether the closure is further extended. |
The airspace has been opened a bit and the southern PK airspace is no open for transit which significantly helped the S.E. Asia - Europe traffic. Airlines are not changing the schedules because they will otherwise lose their slots enroute. EU261 comp doesn't apply at all.
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Originally Posted by oliver2002
(Post 31006208)
EU261 comp doesn't apply at all.
However, for those losing connections, AY is still responsible for food, drinks, communications and accommodation even if no set cash compensation is due. |
Originally Posted by oliver2002
(Post 31006208)
Airlines are not changing the schedules because they will otherwise lose their slots enroute. EU261 comp doesn't apply at all.
Originally Posted by ffay005
(Post 31006242)
This is my understanding and interpretation as well. This very much falls into the category of extraordinary circumstances and AY has no say in this .
And it just don t matter what anyone of us think about it, only a judge can answer that question, and most likely no one will go that way, since there is a certain risk in it. |
Originally Posted by Ed Size
(Post 31006296)
The question is, are circumstances extraordinary if they last for a few months.
... I'm thinking 'extraodinary' require the event to be both sudden and unexpected, but IANAL. |
Originally Posted by intuition
(Post 31007551)
I'm thinking 'extraodinary' require the event to be both sudden and unexpected, but IANAL.
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Originally Posted by intuition
(Post 31007551)
This is a good and interesting question.
I'm thinking 'extraodinary' require the event to be both sudden and unexpected, but IANAL. |
Originally Posted by oliver2002
(Post 31006208)
The airspace has been opened a bit and the southern PK airspace is no open for transit which significantly helped the S.E. Asia - Europe traffic. Airlines are not changing the schedules because they will otherwise lose their slots enroute. EU261 comp doesn't apply at all.
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