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The Big UPGRADE Thread – all you need to know about AY upgrades

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Old May 16, 2017, 1:37 pm
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Last edit by: lkrt
General
Upgrade space is capacity controlled, separately from revenue space in J cabin. The number of seats released to the different upgrade types are driven by a number of factors, but never by the "there are unsold seats in J cabin, let's fill them" policy some other airlines employ. Same applies with upgrades to Premium Economy.

Upgrades now book into fare bucket U, which is also used for business class awards. Note that availability tools such as Expertflyer etc. may or may not show correct U availability as AY tends to offer additional U availability to Plats and Lumos, and this hidden availability is not shown by non-AY affiliated availability tools. Premium Economy upgrade availability is in bucket F, with the above disclaimers applying similarly.

You can upgrade and review the available upgrade options at https://www.finnair.com/en/manage/upgrade.

The searches below very often show zero availability. Very few directly confirmable seats are released in particularly longhaul J. Instead upgrades must go on waitlist, from where a robot processes upgrades from an unknown set of parameters. A waitlisted upgrade can clear in minutes or never, and there is no way to know. Waitlisted upgrades are checked at T-59, 21, 10, 5 days, and at T-37 hours.

Final check most often actually takes place at approximately ~T-38 hours and you will be (most often) notified by email. In case you are denied an upgrade at this point and there is still revenue availability in J, you can contact CS which may be able to upgrade you on the spot or contact "another department" for confirmation. Furthermore, you may contact check-in desk at least in HEL, which may be able to process your upgrade.

You can check for the upgrades upon booking on the Finnair website. Each flight has a separate tab for "Upgrades", showing upgrade availability for PE and J if any exists, otherwise you will be waitlisted. Additionally, you may check your upgrade options for an already-booked flight here. EF gives you an idea of upgrade availability in the U bucket.


Upgrade-types
1. Upgrades with points
2. Upgrades with vouchers
3. Cash upgrades
5. Cash upgrades at airport
6. Complimentary upgrades

Upgrades with AY+ points

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (operated by Norra is also eligible as well as op by Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair as wetlease)
  • ticketed booking in paid economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • award flights and points+money combos are ineligible (booking class X)
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • It is not required to have a Finnair-issued ticket (although this has now been required according to some experiences)
Cost:
  • Northern Europe (ARN, BGO, CPH, GOT, KEF, KRK, OSL, WAW, WRO) 10,000 points one way
  • Rest of Europe, TLV 15,000 points one way
  • long haul (including DXB, DOH) 60,000 points one way
    • Previously, shorthaul connections were upgraded at the same cost but this has been discontinued as of 15JUN23. If you wish to upgrade a shorthaul feeder flight, a separate points charge will apply.
  • there have been some occasional promotions especially for short haul upgrades (winter and summer campaigns)
Process:
  • When booking, you can check for direct upgrade availability on "Upgrades" tab or by looking on Expertflyer for U bucket
  • once you have a ticketed booking, you can process your upgrade or waitlist yourself for upgrade online here
  • you may also call AY to process your upgrade at a 1000-point surcharge (does not apply to PE->J upgrades not available online)
  • If there is no availability, you can waitlist. A waitlisted upgrade may clear within hours of your request or up to 37 hours before STD. If it doesn't clear, after T-37 you may call AY, use the chat or go to the check-in desk at the airport and enquire about an upgrade.
    • your status is one of the factors affecting your priority on the waitlist
    • If there is no SH availability you can still upgrade the LH and waitlist the shorthaul. You'll pay the same points price even if SH does not clear though.
    • NOTE: If you wish to reserve your seat in original class, select the desired seats before waitlisting. After waitlisting it is not possible to select seats via Manage My Booking, however one can do that via Chat or Call Center.
  • if you waitlist, your points will be taken from your account immediately; if the upgrade does not clear, your points will be returned to you but you will lose any points that have expired during the waiting time
  • your points need to be valid at time of processing the request but they do not need to be valid on the day of the flight
  • When confirmed, you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U (or F for Premium Economy) but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.
  • as an unpublished perk, you may choose to change your upgrade from a points one to a voucher one by calling AY; your points will be returned to you save for any points that may have expired
  • If you change your mind about the upgrade you may conctact CS and ask to cancel the upgrade and have points returned. There likely must be seats left in Y cabin (or potentially, original booking class) to allow this, and your points expiry date must not have passed.

Perks:
  • Most of the J perks like priority check-in, priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding. However the luggage allowance is one additional piece at 23kg (on top of your existing economy allowance).
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Upgrades with vouchers
Vouchers are given to Finnair+ members upon advancing to and retaining the platinum and gold tiers. You can see number of vouchers, their type and expiry in your Finnair+ account.

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (operated by Norra is also eligible as well as op by Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair as wetlease)
  • ticketed booking in economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • award flights booked via AY+ are also eligible (booking class X)
  • most likely, points+money combos are eligible, too, since they book into X, but we have no verification of this
  • award flights booked via parners (eg. Avios, AAdvantage etc) are not eligible
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • It is not required to have a Finnair-issued ticket (although this has now been required according to some experiences)

Cost:
  • Northern Europe one "European" voucher for a one-way flight
  • Rest of Europe, TLV one "European" voucher for a one-way flight
  • longhaul (including DXB, DOH) one "Longhaul" voucher for a one-way flight
  • LH voucher does not include upgrade for connecting shorthaul (like it does with points upgrades), SH flight requires a separate voucher/points upgrade
  • you may exchange four European vouchers for one "Longhaul" voucher or vice versa by calling AY

Process:
  • When booking, you can check for direct upgrade availability on "Upgrades" tab or by looking on Expertflyer for U bucket
  • once you have a ticketed booking, you can process your upgrade or waitlist yourself for upgrade online here
  • you may also call AY to process your upgrade at a 1000-point surcharge (does not apply to PE->J upgrades not available online)
  • If there is no availability, you can waitlist. A waitlisted upgrade may clear within hours of your request or up to 37 hours before STD. If it doesn't clear, after T-37 you may call AY, use the chat or go to the check-in desk at the airport and enquire about an upgrade.
    • your status is one of the factors affecting your priority on the waitlist
    • If there is no SH availability you can still upgrade the LH and waitlist the shorthaul. You'll pay the same points price even if SH does not clear though.
    • NOTE: If you wish to reserve your seat in original class, select the desired seats before waitlisting. After waitlisting it is not possible to select seats via Manage My Booking, however one can do that via Chat or Call Center.
  • if you waitlist, your voucher will be taken from your account immediately; if the upgrade does not clear, your voucher will be returned to you but you will lose any vouchers that have expired during the waiting time
  • you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.
  • If you change your mind about the upgrade you can contact CS and ask to cancel the upgrade and have voucher returned. There likely must be seats left in Y cabin (or original booking class) to allow this, and your voucher expiry date must not have passed.

Perks:
  • all usual J perks like priority check-in, one additional piece of baggage (23kg), priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Cash upgrades, offered on website / app
On the app as well as on the upgrade tool you can review if an upgrade is offered at a cash price. The prices vary, and reports can be seen here. The cash prices become available at 60 days prior to departure and may fluctuate in the timeframe prior to departure.

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (or operated by Norra or Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair (wetlease))
  • ticketed booking in paid economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • you do not need to be a AY+ member

Cost:
Process:
  • Check the app or the upgrade tool for cash prices (earliest 60 days prior to departure)
  • you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.

Perks:
  • Most of the J perks like priority check-in, priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding. However the luggage allowance is one additional piece at 23kg (on top of your existing economy allowance).
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Upgrades paid in cash at the airport

(Note that according to recent reports, check-in agents are in some cases only able to process last-minute points and voucher upgrades.)

Requirements:
  • upgrades may be available for purchase at check-in
  • flight operated by AY or Norra
  • ticketed booking in economy
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • most likely AY+ & partner award flights in economy are eligible, too, though this is unconfirmed
  • the marketing carrier does not matter, so this is the only upgrade where codeshares are eligible

Cost:
  • varies, expect to pay some hundreds of euros for long haul one way

Process:
  • the upgrade will be processed and paid for at the check-in desk of the airport of departure
  • most likely the above means the airport of departure of that particular flight, so to upgrade HEL-BKK on a CPH-HEL-BKK itinerary, you would need to contact (transfer) check-in at HEL
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. The odds of being bumped back into Y are close to 0 as AY will not offer these upgrades if J is overbooked

Perks:
  • Only in-flight perks apply
  • Lounge access, priority security, additional checked in baggage is not extended to airport upgraders
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Complimentary operational upgrades
  • usually just a new boarding pass & seat either at the gate, at check-in or even after you have boarded
  • few and far between
  • the decision whom to upgrade on a particular flight seems a bit random but is at least partially dependent on the price of your ticket, booking class and status
    • AY highest tier members (Lumos, Plats, Golds) are prioritised with the travelling party size affecting upgrade priority (i.e. if only one seat is available in J, the party will not be split)
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
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The Big UPGRADE Thread – all you need to know about AY upgrades

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Old Feb 8, 2022, 9:56 am
  #1816  
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The idea-superspreader creating their own corporate task-endemic? Sure. But usually there is some business case at the heart of it.

From what I've been told by different insiders - at AY you need to show the numbers before you get the go ahead with anything. Stuff won't happen unless you have market research or financials to support it. What I am struggling with is what was the business case behind increasing number of upgrade instruments, decreasing availability of upgrades and making the upgrade-process opaque and unpredictable. Resulting in stringing even Lumos along until T-37, ending up not clearing voucher upgrades into a almost empty cabin and then occasionally offer paid upgrades for record low prices as there is zero demand for paid upgrades.

I am genuinely curious about what the gain is for this strategy.
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Old Feb 10, 2022, 7:58 am
  #1817  
 
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Coming this year: points upgrades across all Oneworld airlines


Frequent flyers of Oneworld’s 14 member airlines can look forward to securing points-based upgrades across the alliance this year.
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Old Feb 10, 2022, 8:01 am
  #1818  
 
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Originally Posted by Steve_Hun

Coming this year: points upgrades across all Oneworld airlines


Frequent flyers of Oneworld’s 14 member airlines can look forward to securing points-based upgrades across the alliance this year.
While a cool concept as such, my fear is that this will become useless like the Star Alliance system where you must buy an exorbitant full Y ticket to take advantage of this.
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Old Feb 10, 2022, 10:16 am
  #1819  
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Yes, if this is anything like the Star Alliance "benefit" it is useless. More expensive than a revenue ticket I business class, still capacity controlled and opaque process.
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Old Feb 10, 2022, 10:34 am
  #1820  
 
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Originally Posted by miamiflyer8
While a cool concept as such, my fear is that this will become useless like the Star Alliance system where you must buy an exorbitant full Y ticket to take advantage of this.
I would hope they understood the *A system is almost useless and there is no point in launching similar. Given the time they have taken to develop it, they will hopefully introduce something that gives oneworld competitive advantage while making individual members reasonably and equally unhappy about giving out premium seats to partners.
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Old Feb 10, 2022, 11:41 am
  #1821  
 
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Originally Posted by on22cz
I would hope they understood the *A system is almost useless and there is no point in launching similar. Given the time they have taken to develop it, they will hopefully introduce something that gives oneworld competitive advantage while making individual members reasonably and equally unhappy about giving out premium seats to partners.
One would hope that as well, but given how much of this industry is monkey-see monkey-do I can’t help but go with my gut feeling.
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Old Feb 10, 2022, 12:46 pm
  #1822  
 
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Originally Posted by miamiflyer8
One would hope that as well, but given how much of this industry is monkey-see monkey-do I can’t help but go with my gut feeling.
Even if it would be possible to upgrade lower booking classes, I expect this to be rather expensive – many times over what AY charges currently.
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Old Feb 10, 2022, 1:32 pm
  #1823  
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What are the upgrade systems of AA, BA, QR, CX like right now? I guess we might expect something similar from the OW upgrades as those are the biggest members.

Many many years ago, I upgraded an AA flight with AA miles and I believe it was a bunch of miles + some 300 USD copay.
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Old Feb 10, 2022, 1:36 pm
  #1824  
 
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Originally Posted by ffay005
What are the upgrade systems of AA, BA, QR, CX like right now? I guess we might expect something similar from the OW upgrades as those are the biggest members.

Many many years ago, I upgraded an AA flight with AA miles and I believe it was a bunch of miles + some 300 USD copay.
AA was 25k plus 200 or 300 usd as I recall


Ba does alot of POUGs and Airport upgrades too
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Old Feb 10, 2022, 3:14 pm
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Originally Posted by on22cz
I would hope they understood the *A system is almost useless and there is no point in launching similar. Given the time they have taken to develop it, they will hopefully introduce something that gives oneworld competitive advantage while making individual members reasonably and equally unhappy about giving out premium seats to partners.
Right, I hope so too.
But there are many hopes that I keep hoping for.
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Old Feb 10, 2022, 4:58 pm
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Originally Posted by ffay005
What are the upgrade systems of AA, BA, QR, CX like right now? I guess we might expect something similar from the OW upgrades as those are the biggest members.

Many many years ago, I upgraded an AA flight with AA miles and I believe it was a bunch of miles + some 300 USD copay.
I know BAEC calculates upgrades based on the difference between the award ticket cost between cabins. For example, let’s say a J award is 50 000 and a PE award is 35 000. The upgrade would therefore cost 15 000 avios. We’ll see what happens with this chart.

Originally Posted by kauppias
AA was 25k plus 200 or 300 usd as I recall


Ba does alot of POUGs and Airport upgrades too
I recall a TATL upgrade on AAdvantage being as low as 12.5K miles and $350 copay about 10 years ago unless I’m losing my marbles.

As far as BA, they only have cash upgrades at the airport, was offered on LHR-ATL PE to J sorry CW to F for £450 by the lounge dragon. Didn’t take it due to the cardboard box catering in all cabins,
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Old Feb 10, 2022, 5:01 pm
  #1827  
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Originally Posted by Steve_Hun

Coming this year: points upgrades across all Oneworld airlines


Frequent flyers of Oneworld’s 14 member airlines can look forward to securing points-based upgrades across the alliance this year.
This has been talked about a lot in the past years. I believe it when I see it.
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Old Feb 11, 2022, 2:31 am
  #1828  
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Originally Posted by on22cz
I would hope they understood the *A system is almost useless and there is no point in launching similar. Given the time they have taken to develop it, they will hopefully introduce something that gives oneworld competitive advantage while making individual members reasonably and equally unhappy about giving out premium seats to partners.
Logically true.

But look at it from the airlines' perspective. Most of them don't give a dang about oneworld in reality. It is just a marketing pool they are a member of, but to live up to the common rules and provide benefits for "other airlines' members" is not something they care about.

I would think most airlines response to this project is along the lines of "well, if this is a marketable perk that won't cost us anything, neither in development costs or loss of revenue, and we don't have to administer anything and we don't have to provide any actual upgrades to the system - yeah sure we are in".

As long as oneworld can't enforce member airlines to adhere to the lounge access rules, as long as they can't align baggage allowance and tier perks, I have zero confidence they can get an alliance wide upgrade system to work for the travellers.

Even if it some day technically will exist, point prices wil be astronomical. Just compare a Finnair award flight with a ow partner award flight - it is around 2x pricier. OW points upgrade will never be a bargain, think price point 100k+ for a partner upgrade.

And what about availability? Finnair has already lost interest in upgrading its own members. Where in this priority will OW members come? Finnair will likely prioritize new revenu above redeeming loyalty, so something like this
  1. Cash upgrades
  2. OW members points upgrades
  3. Own members points upgrades
  4. Own members voucher upgrade
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Old Feb 11, 2022, 3:10 am
  #1829  
 
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You are completely right, just building such a crap system wouldn't take so long. I will keep my hopes high - at times even the 100k upgrade can be worth it. However, if they release the *A crap, I won't be much disappointed. They can only surprise us and it can bring interesting opportunities.
It would be interesting to see a concept of general oneworld currency with conversions defined by individual airlines but redemption possibilities alliance wide. You would still pay those 100k points for an upgrade but could redeem it at the airport with less concern about advance upgrade space availability.
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Old Feb 11, 2022, 3:22 am
  #1830  
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Originally Posted by on22cz
.. They can only surprise us and it can bring interesting opportunities....
Good point! We'll wait and see!
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