Last edit by: NewbieRunner
This lounge is now closed and replaced by the Finnair Premium Wing.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finnair-finnair-plus/1973050-ay-platinum-wing-now-open.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finnair-finnair-plus/1973050-ay-platinum-wing-now-open.html
Finnair Premium Lounge in non-Schengen area [now closed]
#16
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,182
I did some math...
Today the late afternoon block had 9 Asian longhaul departures. The exact seating capacity in J on these 9 planes was 376 seats. Applying the passenger loadfactor of September 2014 (assuming passenger loadfactor is evenly distributed across Y/J ) at 83,8% for Asian traffic, the number of J pax from Finnair traffic was approx. 315, all undoubtedly with lounge access.
Assuming 10 status pax in Y on each flight adds another 90 with access.
Assuming 10% of status pax do bring a guest adds 9 more.
Further AY also has some other non-schengen departures (to Russia on ATRs etc), but I'm gonna keep them out of the equation.
However, in the same time frame a JL 788 and a BA A320 departs with a total of 94 J seats. Load factor is unknown, but 66 more J pax does seem a reasonable number IMHO.
These flights surely also has a few status pax in Y, especially the BA799 to LON. Adding another 20 pax seems a conservative bid.
Now we are totalling a whopping 503 guests to the non-schengen lounges, that has a maximum capacity of 372.
Of course, not all of these pax are transiting, but those who do surely will go to the lounge. Those who originate HEL may be lesser inclined to use the lounge. But it is not very hard to see that the lounge capacity is way off.
Even if AY restricted access to J pax only (defying OW rules!), it would be quite full.
PS another interesting set of numbers is:
Business class lounge is 1000 sq meters and hold 250 guests - 4 sq metres / guest. The premium lounge accepts 112 guests on 400 sq meters, 3,6 sq metres / guest. I feel so privileged.
Assuming 10 status pax in Y on each flight adds another 90 with access.
Assuming 10% of status pax do bring a guest adds 9 more.
Further AY also has some other non-schengen departures (to Russia on ATRs etc), but I'm gonna keep them out of the equation.
However, in the same time frame a JL 788 and a BA A320 departs with a total of 94 J seats. Load factor is unknown, but 66 more J pax does seem a reasonable number IMHO.
These flights surely also has a few status pax in Y, especially the BA799 to LON. Adding another 20 pax seems a conservative bid.
Now we are totalling a whopping 503 guests to the non-schengen lounges, that has a maximum capacity of 372.
Of course, not all of these pax are transiting, but those who do surely will go to the lounge. Those who originate HEL may be lesser inclined to use the lounge. But it is not very hard to see that the lounge capacity is way off.
Even if AY restricted access to J pax only (defying OW rules!), it would be quite full.
PS another interesting set of numbers is:
Business class lounge is 1000 sq meters and hold 250 guests - 4 sq metres / guest. The premium lounge accepts 112 guests on 400 sq meters, 3,6 sq metres / guest. I feel so privileged.
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,107
You should add to the 503 pax those on the inbounds with onward connections - again I'd venture to say a low-hundred number.
At our pre-opening meeting I chatted with the AY lady (sorry, forgot her name) and she explicitly said that the rather admissive Premium lounge policy is to ease the burden on the overloaded C lounge. Understandable, but not working. Instead of easing the pressure it just downgrades the Premium lounge, too.
Now 2 months in I'd say could be time to review the policy.
At our pre-opening meeting I chatted with the AY lady (sorry, forgot her name) and she explicitly said that the rather admissive Premium lounge policy is to ease the burden on the overloaded C lounge. Understandable, but not working. Instead of easing the pressure it just downgrades the Premium lounge, too.
Now 2 months in I'd say could be time to review the policy.
#18
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: Finnair , Marriot Gold
Posts: 183
Gonna check it out next week so lets see. Have a long haul to DEL
#19
Ambassador: Finnair
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,270
Intuition, great info and thanks for the work! I think that should be shared with AY..they obviously should know the maths but worth reminding and asking how they think this will work going forward?
#20
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,182
I actually have approached someone at AY with the gist of that post, but it fell to the ground. Not because of disinterest, but because AY is a very compartmentalized and disconnected company. In plain english - this person could not understand there could be any trouble with the lounges. Most employees has the marketing material as their main knowledge - ie they are convinced AY has very good lounge offerings.
I'd be happy to share insights and ideas with AY but it has to be a 2-way communication. But we all know AY cannot even have an active company rep on FT, so no need to dream about that!
I'd be happy to share insights and ideas with AY but it has to be a 2-way communication. But we all know AY cannot even have an active company rep on FT, so no need to dream about that!
#21
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,603
Not wanting to be an AY apologizer but one has to admit that some of the connections are so tight that there is no time for a lounge visit.
#22
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,182
Yes, that is true. Some will chose to go to gate instead of lounge.
#23
Ambassador: Finnair
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,270
intuition, if you want myself and/or SPBanker could politely share those calculations with the AY contact we have, same gentleman who organized the visit to the lounge in question earlier this year?
Just let us know what you think.
Just let us know what you think.
#24
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,182
Well, it could be interesting and hopefully some good answers can come out of it. Even if it turns out that I made some mistake in the assumptions. So give it a try!
Detailed observations below in case that is needed/helpful. The source of load factor is AY traffic report sept 2014, released oct 7.
Please post back any results - if nothing can be said publicly I'd appreciate a PM.
Sample date: 2104-10-22
Time of day: 17:05-18:05
Detailed observations below in case that is needed/helpful. The source of load factor is AY traffic report sept 2014, released oct 7.
Please post back any results - if nothing can be said publicly I'd appreciate a PM.
Sample date: 2104-10-22
Time of day: 17:05-18:05
Code:
KL FLYG DEST PLANE J-seats 17.05 57 PVG OH-LQE 45 17.10 89 BKK OH-LQF 42 17.15 73 NRT OH-LTO 45 17.15 79 NGO OH-LTP 45 17.20 77 KIX OH-LTR 45 17.30 41 ICN OH-LTS 32 17.40 55 CKG OH-LTT 32 17.40 59 XIY OH-LTN 45 17.55 2169 LED OH-ATJ - 18.05 51 PEK OH-LQD 45 Total 376 OneWorld 17.15 BA799 LON G-EUUR 52 17.25 JL414 NRT JA824J 42 Total 94
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,107
Today morning - what a bliss compared to the afternoons. With only 2 flights leaving (BA and AY to LHR) there was space, comfort, peace... though strangely the food offering was not as good as in the afternoons.
#26
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: KBOS
Programs: BA GfL
Posts: 921
Currently sitting at Premium Lounge while waiting for my midnight flight to HKG. It's quiet, spacious and a major improvement from the old lounge. The food offering is better and wine, spirits and Champagne are available free of charge. There's also a sleep/relax area, perfect for those long layovers to JFK or Asia. I'll post pictures as soon as I can figure out how to upload them.
#27
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: ex-Eurocheat in London
Programs: BA Silver, MUCCI
Posts: 582
I find the logistics very strange. I have seen several other kinds of unisex saunas and they normally have two separate shower cabinets with no visual from the sauna, one for the ladies and one for the gentlemen, after a shower one can comfortably wear the towel and enter the sauna when ready. This sauna is very strange if you ask me. It's like my private sauna at home.
I then proceeded to the Sauna. (Unfortunately) it nowhere says that this is a Unisex Sauna and when I opened the Sauna shower room a Lady was very surprised (I retreated immediately and we negotiated through the door that I would wait another 5 minutes). Overall t was a very strange experience but something I will not forget soon
#28
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: HEL
Programs: SPG LTP, hotels, OWE, STE+, *G, Octopus
Posts: 5,789
How would you communicate a sauna is unisex? Isn't it the opposite, where you'd have male or female signs if it were not unisex?
#29
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: ex-Eurocheat in London
Programs: BA Silver, MUCCI
Posts: 582
you could put up a sign saying that this is used by both sexes or have both symbols on the door (The changing rooms do have pictograms) Anyway the Lady was obviously not quite prepared for someone else entering the shower room while she was in there.
#30
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: HEL
Programs: SPG LTP, hotels, OWE, STE+, *G, Octopus
Posts: 5,789
Then she was likely neither German nor Finnish