Mar 1, 2014, 8:31 am
Last edit by: hillrider
Finnair is replacing slanted lie-flat J class seats with horizontal lie-flat seats, the Zodiak UK Vantage, on its long-haul fleet.
For more information, see Finnair's website here.
Overall upgrade program status
As of 05DEC14 the following have the new horizontal seats in J:
Routes with horizontal full-flat business class seat
As of the dates below, all flights on listed routes will normally be performed by aircraft with horizontal full-flat seat in business class. Routes not listed will mainly be served by the older A340s or a mix of old & new, supply allowing.
2014-04-01 - NRT, JFK
2014-05-01 - PEK, ICN
2014-06-01 - PVG, KIX, NGO and HAN (seasonal)
2014 winter - HKG (seasonal) *)
*) Original press release stated HKG full-flat from 2014-06-01. Some flights are indeed scheduled with new J, but current info on AY website says HKG full flat only during winter season.
Please note that AY can and will swap aircrafts due to operational reasons, and there is no guarantee a certain route will be served by a certain aircraft. It is a very small fleet and any technical issue not resolved in a few hours will lead to equipment changes, which will have a domino effect throughout the fleet.
Individual upgrade status of each plane
As of 05DEC14 (click on RegNo for seatmap)
For more information, see Finnair's website here.
Overall upgrade program status
As of 05DEC14 the following have the new horizontal seats in J:
- 57% of the 343 fleet (4 of 7 aircraft)
- 100% of the 333 fleet (8 of 8 aircraft)
- equivalent to 80% of the long haul fleet (12 of 15 aircraft)
Routes with horizontal full-flat business class seat
As of the dates below, all flights on listed routes will normally be performed by aircraft with horizontal full-flat seat in business class. Routes not listed will mainly be served by the older A340s or a mix of old & new, supply allowing.
2014-04-01 - NRT, JFK
2014-05-01 - PEK, ICN
2014-06-01 - PVG, KIX, NGO and HAN (seasonal)
2014 winter - HKG (seasonal) *)
*) Original press release stated HKG full-flat from 2014-06-01. Some flights are indeed scheduled with new J, but current info on AY website says HKG full flat only during winter season.
Please note that AY can and will swap aircrafts due to operational reasons, and there is no guarantee a certain route will be served by a certain aircraft. It is a very small fleet and any technical issue not resolved in a few hours will lead to equipment changes, which will have a domino effect throughout the fleet.
Individual upgrade status of each plane
As of 05DEC14 (click on RegNo for seatmap)
Code:
Airbus A340 RegNo Full flat since ------ ------------ OH-LQA Old slanted seats OH-LQB 2014-03-27 OH-LQC 2014-05-29 OH-LQD 2014-04-21 OH-LQE 2014-05-16 OH-LQF Old slanted seats OH-LQG Old slanted seats Airbus A330 RegNo Full flat since ------ ------------ OH-LTM 2014-11-09 OH-LTN 2014-12-05 OH-LTO 2014-02-27 OH-LTP 2014-03-11 OH-LTR 2009-12-17 OH-LTS 2010-02-11 OH-LTT 2010-04-21 OH-LTU 2010-11-26
Reports on Hard product upgrades
Apr 13, 2014, 6:05 am
#91
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 286
Of course this is a great improvement, but can anyone tell if the new interiors are identical to the ones that been around for about 5 years now?
I think Thomson Vantage now offer a few upgrades and also other materials, colour schemes etc.
Actually the current interiors begin to look outdated and too sterile and plastic, resembles too much of a dental clinic...
I think Thomson Vantage now offer a few upgrades and also other materials, colour schemes etc.
Actually the current interiors begin to look outdated and too sterile and plastic, resembles too much of a dental clinic...
Apr 13, 2014, 9:50 am
#92
Moderator, Finnair
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
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Of course this is a great improvement, but can anyone tell if the new interiors are identical to the ones that been around for about 5 years now?
I think Thomson Vantage now offer a few upgrades and also other materials, colour schemes etc.
Actually the current interiors begin to look outdated and too sterile and plastic, resembles too much of a dental clinic...
I think Thomson Vantage now offer a few upgrades and also other materials, colour schemes etc.
Actually the current interiors begin to look outdated and too sterile and plastic, resembles too much of a dental clinic...
Here is a picture of OH-LTO 2 weeks after retro fit, where you can see material and colour. (and winestain which contradicts the "sterile" claim
) 
And the space your feet need to fit
Apr 13, 2014, 10:06 am
#93
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Original Poster
Join Date: May 2011
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It shouldn't be long, but that is just guesswork. One 340 is away for refurb right now (should return any day now) and up till now they have done the refurbs back-to-back, ie as soon as one bird returns, another goes to Düsseldorf.
The only schedule provided by AY was made a long time ago and talked about one bird a month, but the once so far have been quicker (A330s have taken 2 weeks, A340s a bit more). That schedule stretched to august or september IIRC.
It all depends on when they can spare one plane from normal production, they are running the fleet close to 100% utilisation.
The only schedule provided by AY was made a long time ago and talked about one bird a month, but the once so far have been quicker (A330s have taken 2 weeks, A340s a bit more). That schedule stretched to august or september IIRC.
It all depends on when they can spare one plane from normal production, they are running the fleet close to 100% utilisation.
Apr 13, 2014, 11:44 am
#96
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 286
Of course there are advantages with having identical interiors, but on the other hand the A350`s are scheduled to arrive already next year (nudge, nudge).
And I can hardly imagine AY plan to introduce such a revolutionary plane with a business class design thats approaching 10 years of age.
So in that respect it could have made sense to start improving the interiors now.
And I can hardly imagine AY plan to introduce such a revolutionary plane with a business class design thats approaching 10 years of age.
So in that respect it could have made sense to start improving the interiors now.
Apr 14, 2014, 9:47 pm
#97
Ambassador: Finnair
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,270
AY has got extremely narrow seats in J but those are there for a reason, cheap product, cheap prices, anyone who wants quality does not fly AY J, they fly AY because it's cheap and/or convenient, that's their business case...you can, realistically, never expect AY to install some state of the art seats into their J. Let's hope we will see the A350 with inflight wi-fi capability...regarding the seats, I wouldn't break out the champagne just yet..
In this context I find it somewhat strange that there's such a hype here around the J cabin upgrades, I mean the solo lie-flats are nice addition but the more I fly with AY the more the cramped/narrow seats are bothering me...I really do not think this "new AY J" is worth any hype whatsoever..OK it's miles above AY whY, which is something I wouldn't touch w/o a gun pointing at my head..but if you compare to competition, AY J is simply not up to par, end of conversation.
Last edited by NoWindowSeat; Apr 14, 2014 at 9:56 pm
Apr 15, 2014, 2:12 am
#99
Moderator, Finnair
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,183
What JoWa might mean is that there are newer versions even of the vantage seat. Or that the competition is doing it a more modern way, like QR. I can understand AY's wish to standardize the fleet, though.
I agree about the unreasonable hype - Sure, I do like full flat better, but when it means adding 7% more pax into the same space, I can't see the gain. I sleep better in the old angled flats seats than I do in a full flat seat where someone kicks by bed every 10 minutes through out the night.
But let's not forget AY is driving the hype themselves - they are promoting themselves as a designer airline, designed around the customer needs, and these seats are told to be the crown in the jewel. NoWindowSeat is kind of right with his analysis about cheap product, but when marketing claims something else, disappointment will arise.
The day they put vantage pro seats (or the like) on the A350 I will cry. The 8 abreast J cabin should be reserved for the BA lovers...
I agree about the unreasonable hype - Sure, I do like full flat better, but when it means adding 7% more pax into the same space, I can't see the gain. I sleep better in the old angled flats seats than I do in a full flat seat where someone kicks by bed every 10 minutes through out the night.
But let's not forget AY is driving the hype themselves - they are promoting themselves as a designer airline, designed around the customer needs, and these seats are told to be the crown in the jewel. NoWindowSeat is kind of right with his analysis about cheap product, but when marketing claims something else, disappointment will arise.
The day they put vantage pro seats (or the like) on the A350 I will cry. The 8 abreast J cabin should be reserved for the BA lovers...
Apr 15, 2014, 3:32 am
#100
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,602
As for pricing commented earlier, it seems that we standard Finnish taxpayers are subsidizing all ex-nonHEL fliers and non-AY status pax as those seem to get prices and better elite OW-treatment
Apr 15, 2014, 10:45 am
#101
Ambassador: Finnair
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,270
Yes, AY is expensive exHEL but they are really cheap from basically anywhere else in Europe to Asia and back, their Finland originating paid J travel is a small part of their revenue..
Apr 15, 2014, 11:17 am
#102
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: HEL
Programs: SPG LTP, hotels, OWE, STE+, *G, Octopus
Posts: 5,789
ex-AMS/BRU many destinations are cheaper on BA than AY at the moment.
Apr 15, 2014, 1:00 pm
#103
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 286
In what respect do you think the lie-flat design is "old"? I mean one can argue that AY IFE is crap (which it really is for those interested in that) but other than that, lie-flat business class product is the norm today, what do you expect?
AY has got extremely narrow seats in J but those are there for a reason, cheap product, cheap prices,
AY has got extremely narrow seats in J but those are there for a reason, cheap product, cheap prices,
AY was quite early with staggered full flats in J, and since then the design of staggered seats has improved with more wood, warmer colours, teething flaws have been rectified e. g.
I can hardly imagine such tweaks makes it much more expensive.
Apr 15, 2014, 1:15 pm
#104
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 286
Apr 15, 2014, 3:04 pm
#105
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,603
It seems that I'm in the minority, but I gladly take the new solo AY seats over BA seats with the exception of the backwards facing seats in row 64 (and maybe 62) on the upper deck of 747's (64A and K are my favourite ones). I must have said this before, but I could not find my previous post at least in this thread.