Mar 1, 2014, 8:31 am
Last edit by: hillrider
Finnair is replacing slanted lie-flat J class seats with horizontal lie-flat seats, the Zodiak UK Vantage, on its long-haul fleet.
For more information, see Finnair's website here.
Overall upgrade program status
As of 05DEC14 the following have the new horizontal seats in J:
Routes with horizontal full-flat business class seat
As of the dates below, all flights on listed routes will normally be performed by aircraft with horizontal full-flat seat in business class. Routes not listed will mainly be served by the older A340s or a mix of old & new, supply allowing.
2014-04-01 - NRT, JFK
2014-05-01 - PEK, ICN
2014-06-01 - PVG, KIX, NGO and HAN (seasonal)
2014 winter - HKG (seasonal) *)
*) Original press release stated HKG full-flat from 2014-06-01. Some flights are indeed scheduled with new J, but current info on AY website says HKG full flat only during winter season.
Please note that AY can and will swap aircrafts due to operational reasons, and there is no guarantee a certain route will be served by a certain aircraft. It is a very small fleet and any technical issue not resolved in a few hours will lead to equipment changes, which will have a domino effect throughout the fleet.
Individual upgrade status of each plane
As of 05DEC14 (click on RegNo for seatmap)
For more information, see Finnair's website here.
Overall upgrade program status
As of 05DEC14 the following have the new horizontal seats in J:
- 57% of the 343 fleet (4 of 7 aircraft)
- 100% of the 333 fleet (8 of 8 aircraft)
- equivalent to 80% of the long haul fleet (12 of 15 aircraft)
Routes with horizontal full-flat business class seat
As of the dates below, all flights on listed routes will normally be performed by aircraft with horizontal full-flat seat in business class. Routes not listed will mainly be served by the older A340s or a mix of old & new, supply allowing.
2014-04-01 - NRT, JFK
2014-05-01 - PEK, ICN
2014-06-01 - PVG, KIX, NGO and HAN (seasonal)
2014 winter - HKG (seasonal) *)
*) Original press release stated HKG full-flat from 2014-06-01. Some flights are indeed scheduled with new J, but current info on AY website says HKG full flat only during winter season.
Please note that AY can and will swap aircrafts due to operational reasons, and there is no guarantee a certain route will be served by a certain aircraft. It is a very small fleet and any technical issue not resolved in a few hours will lead to equipment changes, which will have a domino effect throughout the fleet.
Individual upgrade status of each plane
As of 05DEC14 (click on RegNo for seatmap)
Code:
Airbus A340 RegNo Full flat since ------ ------------ OH-LQA Old slanted seats OH-LQB 2014-03-27 OH-LQC 2014-05-29 OH-LQD 2014-04-21 OH-LQE 2014-05-16 OH-LQF Old slanted seats OH-LQG Old slanted seats Airbus A330 RegNo Full flat since ------ ------------ OH-LTM 2014-11-09 OH-LTN 2014-12-05 OH-LTO 2014-02-27 OH-LTP 2014-03-11 OH-LTR 2009-12-17 OH-LTS 2010-02-11 OH-LTT 2010-04-21 OH-LTU 2010-11-26
Reports on Hard product upgrades
Apr 1, 2014, 11:36 am
#76
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 858
Anyone seen LQB lately? It hasn't returned to HEL yet. It seems refurbish the A340s take a bit longer than doing the A330s.
And do these planes perform the normal DUS-HEL flight (AY2704 / AY2708) on the return? If that is the case, I guess they need to move staff to DUS too, Flybe staff can't fly the widebodies AFAIK.
And do these planes perform the normal DUS-HEL flight (AY2704 / AY2708) on the return? If that is the case, I guess they need to move staff to DUS too, Flybe staff can't fly the widebodies AFAIK.
Apr 2, 2014, 12:10 pm
#77
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 286
I started dummy booking for my Thailand trips in December/February and:
- Second BKK departure is with angled flat bed
- New third BKK departure is with angled flat bed
- Former leisure, now AY departures to Krabi and Phuket are w angled flat beds
- SIN is still with angled flat beds
- Indian flights are not guarenteed as flat beds (havn´t checked booking)
Given that AY claim to have only three birds with angled flat beds left by December, this doesn´t add up...
Could the reason be that AY doesn´t update the seat choice page til the plane is actually delivered, even if it´s slated to be so months before?
- Second BKK departure is with angled flat bed
- New third BKK departure is with angled flat bed
- Former leisure, now AY departures to Krabi and Phuket are w angled flat beds
- SIN is still with angled flat beds
- Indian flights are not guarenteed as flat beds (havn´t checked booking)
Given that AY claim to have only three birds with angled flat beds left by December, this doesn´t add up...
Could the reason be that AY doesn´t update the seat choice page til the plane is actually delivered, even if it´s slated to be so months before?
Apr 2, 2014, 12:24 pm
#78
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,059
Plans, seats, timetables and planes they will change many many times before December/February.
Too early to make any conclusions about metal flying to Thailand. And also good to remember that aircraft can be changed in HEL 1 hour before departure. And it happens often.
Too early to make any conclusions about metal flying to Thailand. And also good to remember that aircraft can be changed in HEL 1 hour before departure. And it happens often.
Apr 2, 2014, 11:01 pm
#80
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: try to stay home
Programs: AY, M&M, BAEC ...and don t care of status anymore
Posts: 2,043
Given the fact that AY will only have three planes with the old config. I would reckon that the two leisure destinations in Thailand and at least one of the BKK flights will be operated with those outdated planes.
Since they always had problems to fill up the business cabin on the one BKK flight they have in summer, I can t see how to fill up, up to 5 planes in J on the way to Thailand.
Since they always had problems to fill up the business cabin on the one BKK flight they have in summer, I can t see how to fill up, up to 5 planes in J on the way to Thailand.
Apr 3, 2014, 1:06 am
#81
Moderator, Finnair
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,182
Given the fact that AY will only have three planes with the old config. I would reckon that the two leisure destinations in Thailand and at least one of the BKK flights will be operated with those outdated planes.
Since they always had problems to fill up the business cabin on the one BKK flight they have in summer, I can t see how to fill up, up to 5 planes in J on the way to Thailand.
Since they always had problems to fill up the business cabin on the one BKK flight they have in summer, I can t see how to fill up, up to 5 planes in J on the way to Thailand.
AY have been talking about "seasonal configs" (something Airbus offers, where the airline themselves "easily" can alter part of the cabin from J to Y and reverse ) but so far they seem happy with overselling cheap Y tickets and utilise the minicabin to accommodate Y-pax. It doesn't cost them anything (besides the long term effects on willingness to pay for J).
Apr 3, 2014, 2:21 pm
#82
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 286
And to note that there should be no more than three angled flat birds in the fleet by December, and thus not offer that seat choice for more than the maximum flights these birds can perform isn´t rocket science...
Doing so they risk to scare away die hard flat fans like me.
Apr 11, 2014, 1:39 am
#84
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,059
It seems that HKG -route is not guaranteed as Full Flat -route from 1st June:
http://www.finnair.com/SG/GB/business-class
In Finnish, no mention about guarantee:
http://www.finnair.com/FI/FI/business-class
FULL-FLAT GUARANTEE ON SELECTED ROUTES
Full-flat seats will be in use on our intercontinental Business Class flights on the following routes:
To Tokyo and New York from 1 April 2014,
To Beijing and Seoul from 1 May 2014,
To Hanoi, Nagoya, Osaka and Shanghai from 1 June 2014,
To Hong Kong during the winter season.
Full-flat seats will be in use on our intercontinental Business Class flights on the following routes:
To Tokyo and New York from 1 April 2014,
To Beijing and Seoul from 1 May 2014,
To Hanoi, Nagoya, Osaka and Shanghai from 1 June 2014,
To Hong Kong during the winter season.
In Finnish, no mention about guarantee:
UUDET ISTUIMET KÄYTÖSSÄ VALITUILLA REITEILLÄ
Täysin makuuasentoon liukuvat istuimet ovat käytössä mannertenvälisillä businessluokan lennoilla seuraavilla reiteillä:
Tokioon ja New Yorkiin 1.4.2014 alkaen
Pekingiin ja Souliin 1.5.2014 alkaen
Hanoihin, Nagoyaan, Osakaan ja Shanghaihin 1.6.2014 alkaen
Hongkongiin talvikaudella 2014–2015.
Täysin makuuasentoon liukuvat istuimet ovat käytössä mannertenvälisillä businessluokan lennoilla seuraavilla reiteillä:
Tokioon ja New Yorkiin 1.4.2014 alkaen
Pekingiin ja Souliin 1.5.2014 alkaen
Hanoihin, Nagoyaan, Osakaan ja Shanghaihin 1.6.2014 alkaen
Hongkongiin talvikaudella 2014–2015.
Apr 11, 2014, 4:18 am
#85
Moderator, Finnair
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,182
That's not what the original press release said. It very clearly said HKG was included in the june batch of routes.
Guarantee has never been mentioned, AY says they are "dedicating" these planes to the mentioned routes.
I was on LTO the other day. Man, are they cramped these new seats. The advertised 23" is measured from console to console, not on the seat. And it is 22" at hip height and 12" for feet. (I brought a tape measure...) The actual seat/bed is 19" wide at it's widest.
Not much wear and tear naturally since it has been only 5-6 weeks since upgrade. But interior was dirty. Wine splashes not cleaned et.c
Guarantee has never been mentioned, AY says they are "dedicating" these planes to the mentioned routes.
I was on LTO the other day. Man, are they cramped these new seats. The advertised 23" is measured from console to console, not on the seat. And it is 22" at hip height and 12" for feet. (I brought a tape measure...) The actual seat/bed is 19" wide at it's widest.
Not much wear and tear naturally since it has been only 5-6 weeks since upgrade. But interior was dirty. Wine splashes not cleaned et.c
Apr 11, 2014, 5:16 am
#86
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,602
The few Lhaul flights I have taken and upgraded to biz I share your point - I have always wondered how dirty it has been in the cabin. Not that I have ever complained, but I just wonder why what is the reason, too short time to clean or just lax behaviour?
Apr 12, 2014, 5:22 am
#87
Moderator, Finnair
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,182
It seems that HKG -route is not guaranteed as Full Flat -route from 1st June:
http://www.finnair.com/SG/GB/business-class
...
http://www.finnair.com/SG/GB/business-class
...
Or could it be that HKG route is still considered the trashcan (ie the solver of all mechanical problems)? If they know they will have to swap aircrafts up to twice a week, maybe better not to create expectations on this route?
Apr 12, 2014, 7:02 am
#88
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,059
My guess is that is only rational fleet rotation.
They need A340 to HAN and Mo/Th/Sa when Hanoi AY97 is running they "borrow" A340 from NGO. NGO is Mo/Th/Sa A333 and all other days A340.
And about HKG:
7 A340's in fleet (4 with new seats, 3 with old) and they are on routes (from June):
BKK
PVG (new)
HAN/NGO (new)
SIN x2
HKG x2
so BKK, SIN + HKG will be mix of old and new.
They need A340 to HAN and Mo/Th/Sa when Hanoi AY97 is running they "borrow" A340 from NGO. NGO is Mo/Th/Sa A333 and all other days A340.
And about HKG:
7 A340's in fleet (4 with new seats, 3 with old) and they are on routes (from June):
BKK
PVG (new)
HAN/NGO (new)
SIN x2
HKG x2
so BKK, SIN + HKG will be mix of old and new.
Last edited by OH-LGG; Apr 12, 2014 at 7:13 am
Apr 12, 2014, 4:53 pm
#89
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, HH Gold
Posts: 102
Any updates on when the last two A330 are scheduled for upgrade? So far HEL-YYZ in early June still shows the old seatmap so I'm wondering if I actually have any chance of the new business class...
And thanks for all the info posted above!
And thanks for all the info posted above!
Apr 12, 2014, 11:24 pm
#90
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: try to stay home
Programs: AY, M&M, BAEC ...and don t care of status anymore
Posts: 2,043