Ticked off at EK...
Apr 25, 2017, 4:34 am
#16
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
You've very probably hit the nail on the head there ukdoctor. Short checking of baggage is a well known indicator for airlines that the pax may not complete their ticketed itinerary and therefore may arbitrarily start to apply the rules of the purchased ticket for all travellers.
Flyertalk is a small community in the grand scheme of air travel but there have been many posts throughout FT asking about short checking of baggage, some for legitimate reasons, others to 'game' the system. Airlines on the whole want to protect their revenue and their way of doing this is to apply the rules of the ticket - end of.....
Unfortunately tmac100, EK may have got to the stage where they have heard all of the excuses for short checking and have now decided, enough is enough. When you buy the ticket, you enter into a contract with the airline. If you break that contract, it's up to the airline whether or not they apply the penalty. It's obvious by your post you did not intend to 'game' the system but EK don't know that. Take into consideration that every day, EK will hear the same requests from numerous passengers and without a doubt, a lot of those requests will be to 'game' the system resulting in lost revenue.
Actions of the few will harm the many.
S
Flyertalk is a small community in the grand scheme of air travel but there have been many posts throughout FT asking about short checking of baggage, some for legitimate reasons, others to 'game' the system. Airlines on the whole want to protect their revenue and their way of doing this is to apply the rules of the ticket - end of.....
Unfortunately tmac100, EK may have got to the stage where they have heard all of the excuses for short checking and have now decided, enough is enough. When you buy the ticket, you enter into a contract with the airline. If you break that contract, it's up to the airline whether or not they apply the penalty. It's obvious by your post you did not intend to 'game' the system but EK don't know that. Take into consideration that every day, EK will hear the same requests from numerous passengers and without a doubt, a lot of those requests will be to 'game' the system resulting in lost revenue.
Actions of the few will harm the many.
S
Apr 25, 2017, 4:39 am
#17
Moderator, Emirates
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Where My Heart Is
Programs: BAEC Silver, FB Platinum, KQ Asante Gold, Shebamiles Blue, Emirates Blue
Posts: 3,383
S
Apr 25, 2017, 4:56 am
#18
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,454
Not entirely sure on how EK operates in these instances (and only going by my limited BA knowledge) but is the airline not perfectly entitled to reprice the ticket? I'm sure they would have a way of recouping the extra revenue if they wanted to. Again-not trying to derail the OP.
S
S
As for collection, that is a different matter but if you put your FFP number in they will know who you are!
Apr 25, 2017, 5:02 am
#19
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,454
Tangent: having huge price differences on "similar" routings is not sustainable, regardless of rules. There are limits to O&D price discrimination (in the economics sense)....
At some point people will make the economic decision to "game" the system (legitimately or illegitimately) or a competitor takes the business or someone reinvents the business model to give consumers what they want. In the long term, you can't "protect" that revenue against market forces (just ask the CD industry, the taxi industry, two name a couple).
Prices need to converge to a reasonable point where that extra stop is not "worth it".
At some point people will make the economic decision to "game" the system (legitimately or illegitimately) or a competitor takes the business or someone reinvents the business model to give consumers what they want. In the long term, you can't "protect" that revenue against market forces (just ask the CD industry, the taxi industry, two name a couple).
Prices need to converge to a reasonable point where that extra stop is not "worth it".
Economically it is easier to cheaper to create artificial discouragement (checking bag policy) than lose inflated O&D revenue.
At least until Norwegian comes along with their 200 dollar fare LGW-SIN!
Apr 25, 2017, 5:13 am
#20
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 430
Though it is a standard practice to offer discounts to connecting passengers, EK should drop that practice and offer same fares to O&D, or even match/beat QR fares.
If rumors are true, QR is picking up Dubai premium travelers for this single reason.
If rumors are true, QR is picking up Dubai premium travelers for this single reason.
Apr 25, 2017, 7:56 am
#21
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Dubai
Programs: BA Silver, FB Plat, EK Gold, BonvoyAmb
Posts: 2,021
It also seems ALL Gulf carriers are adopting this practice with checked baggage as I was told that I would not even be able to leave the airport in DOH on a recent QR LYP-DOH-DXB during my 23 hour connection-- of course you can leave the airport- but bags would only be checked thru to DXB. My understanding is it is only if you are flying/connecting to a Gulf country.
It appears all carriers have caught on to the fact that many of us who live in the GCC fly the one hour to get a flight to a long haul destination at almost half the price. Which in the case of my first sentence is what happened...flew DXB-DOH on a cheap one way, and then DOH-DXB-BKK in J for about 4500AED return - vs the DXB-BKK price of 8500AED at the time.
I have not heard of anyone with this connecting baggage issue who is connecting to a further destination -eg Asia-Europe via DOH or DXB
Apr 25, 2017, 7:03 pm
#22
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: Amex Platinum, Chase Sapphire Reserve
Posts: 805
Do itineraries with a stopover in Dubai of longer than 24 hours cost as much (or more) as ex-DXB itineraries?
If not, how is this policy (short checking only allowed for 24+ hour stopovers) preventing repositioning at all?
It's also quite confusing - for itineraries that qualify for Dubai Connect (the free hotel in Dubai thing) the connection time that qualifies is 8-24 hours in Y, and 6-24 hours in J/F. Can pax using Dubai Connect not take their bags to the hotel?
If not, how is this policy (short checking only allowed for 24+ hour stopovers) preventing repositioning at all?
It's also quite confusing - for itineraries that qualify for Dubai Connect (the free hotel in Dubai thing) the connection time that qualifies is 8-24 hours in Y, and 6-24 hours in J/F. Can pax using Dubai Connect not take their bags to the hotel?
Last edited by Xlr; Apr 25, 2017 at 7:25 pm Reason: Dubai Connect
Apr 25, 2017, 10:01 pm
#23
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: DXB
Programs: QR Privilege Club Platinum, EK Skywards Gold, IHG Platinum Ambassador
Posts: 141
After years of being screwed by Emirates and Etihad for the simple fact we live in Dubai, there are many of us who are tired of the 'tax' we pay when we want to travel. Yes I know supply and demand and all that but when I see CAI-CPT in J for aed5800 vs aed17000 for DXB-CPT in EK it's no wonder that many of us try to play the system. By the way the former gives 17500 tier miles vs 7500 for the latter to add insult to injury.
Obviously the discrepancies aren't so great for Y fares. Essentially Emirates has been subsidized by businesses in Dubai for years and now that oil prices have crashed and everyone is in trouble, the airline is having to slowly accept that premium demand ex UAE is going to fall. If they want to stem this kind of 'cheating' or everyone moving to QR, the first thing they should do is take a long hard look at their premium pricing in my view.
Obviously the discrepancies aren't so great for Y fares. Essentially Emirates has been subsidized by businesses in Dubai for years and now that oil prices have crashed and everyone is in trouble, the airline is having to slowly accept that premium demand ex UAE is going to fall. If they want to stem this kind of 'cheating' or everyone moving to QR, the first thing they should do is take a long hard look at their premium pricing in my view.
Apr 25, 2017, 11:13 pm
#24
Moderator, Emirates
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Where My Heart Is
Programs: BAEC Silver, FB Platinum, KQ Asante Gold, Shebamiles Blue, Emirates Blue
Posts: 3,383
After years of being screwed by Emirates and Etihad for the simple fact we live in Dubai, there are many of us who are tired of the 'tax' we pay when we want to travel. Yes I know supply and demand and all that but when I see CAI-CPT in J for aed5800 vs aed17000 for DXB-CPT in EK it's no wonder that many of us try to play the system. By the way the former gives 17500 tier miles vs 7500 for the latter to add insult to injury.
Obviously the discrepancies aren't so great for Y fares. Essentially Emirates has been subsidized by businesses in Dubai for years and now that oil prices have crashed and everyone is in trouble, the airline is having to slowly accept that premium demand ex UAE is going to fall. If they want to stem this kind of 'cheating' or everyone moving to QR, the first thing they should do is take a long hard look at their premium pricing in my view.
Obviously the discrepancies aren't so great for Y fares. Essentially Emirates has been subsidized by businesses in Dubai for years and now that oil prices have crashed and everyone is in trouble, the airline is having to slowly accept that premium demand ex UAE is going to fall. If they want to stem this kind of 'cheating' or everyone moving to QR, the first thing they should do is take a long hard look at their premium pricing in my view.
EK from GLA-CGK Ł2327, AMS-CGK Ł1923. It's the airline game unfortunately. Home carriers from home hubs usually don't work out as the cheapest options (or the UK).
S
Apr 25, 2017, 11:21 pm
#25
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: SIN
Programs: EK Blue, EY Guest, AA, QR
Posts: 288
After years of being screwed by Emirates and Etihad for the simple fact we live in Dubai, there are many of us who are tired of the 'tax' we pay when we want to travel. Yes I know supply and demand and all that but when I see CAI-CPT in J for aed5800 vs aed17000 for DXB-CPT in EK it's no wonder that many of us try to play the system. By the way the former gives 17500 tier miles vs 7500 for the latter to add insult to injury.
Obviously the discrepancies aren't so great for Y fares. Essentially Emirates has been subsidized by businesses in Dubai for years and now that oil prices have crashed and everyone is in trouble, the airline is having to slowly accept that premium demand ex UAE is going to fall. If they want to stem this kind of 'cheating' or everyone moving to QR, the first thing they should do is take a long hard look at their premium pricing in my view.
Obviously the discrepancies aren't so great for Y fares. Essentially Emirates has been subsidized by businesses in Dubai for years and now that oil prices have crashed and everyone is in trouble, the airline is having to slowly accept that premium demand ex UAE is going to fall. If they want to stem this kind of 'cheating' or everyone moving to QR, the first thing they should do is take a long hard look at their premium pricing in my view.
It is one thing to have a 30-40% surcharge for departing from your hometown.
It is another thing to be expected to pay 3-4 times just because you are a "resident".
Same goes for hotels; the amount UAE residents pay for a room (excluding F&B) at a beach hotel over the weekend is sometimes more than what a tourist pays for a full-board package and flights
Apr 26, 2017, 4:52 am
#26
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,454
On the other hand, the price of buying things of indeterminate value (such as hospitality) is always more to do with the purchasing power of the target market, not the underlying costs.
Given that it is expected that UAE residents have a lot more purchasing power than visitors because, let's face it, there is no income tax - and many expats have accommodation and living costs paid for (or salary is adjusted upwards to compensate), it's obvious prices for residents will increase to match their audience.
To avoid not cutting yourself off from the rest of the market you introduce artificial segmentation - such as sales of packages to visitors.
Those who earn much less, like the imported service staff will find more reasonable pricing for the things they buy matching their incomes: e.g. they will be flying Flydubai, not EK.
Given that it is expected that UAE residents have a lot more purchasing power than visitors because, let's face it, there is no income tax - and many expats have accommodation and living costs paid for (or salary is adjusted upwards to compensate), it's obvious prices for residents will increase to match their audience.
To avoid not cutting yourself off from the rest of the market you introduce artificial segmentation - such as sales of packages to visitors.
Those who earn much less, like the imported service staff will find more reasonable pricing for the things they buy matching their incomes: e.g. they will be flying Flydubai, not EK.
Apr 27, 2017, 8:34 am
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle Earth, and often worse
Programs: BAEC Silver, A3 Gold
Posts: 2,212
The obscure CoC are irrelevant to me. I am NOT a lawyer and I DO NOT knowingly flaunt any rules imposed by countries/airlines. Any court of law would IMHO understand that - in spite of the "ignorance of the law is no an acceptable defense". IMHO, Few airline pax understand all the nuances of respective CoC.
I despise entrapment, AND inconsistent application of obscure rules as much as I despise confiscatory approaches to NOT allowing me to access MY baggage at a transit point. I do not care what the opines are of the initial contributors. Fair is fair! Otherwise there is misinformation and scamming. Make sure that everyone knows "what the rules are" PRIOR to booking. Then apply the "rules" consistently.
Those last 2 statements are the essence of my complaint letter to Tim Clark.
OTOH, what is done is done, and I have a sour taste in my mouth wrt EK and it's treatment of me. I await Mr.Clark's response. No matter, my life with spending discretional income will continue. Onward. From my perspective EK and the Emirate of Dubai will lose my ,onies, AND I will make every effort to tell friends of the callous treatment of visitors to Dubai and of EK pax.
Apr 27, 2017, 11:58 am
#28
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
I showed EK personnel my Qatar ID. So what (was the obvious response). My letter to Tim Clark showed my contempt for EK entrapping me and being vacillatory in their application of "obscure" and not self-evident rules - that were/are NOT evident when booking.
The obscure CoC are irrelevant to me. I am NOT a lawyer and I DO NOT knowingly flaunt any rules imposed by countries/airlines. Any court of law would IMHO understand that - in spite of the "ignorance of the law is no an acceptable defense". IMHO, Few airline pax understand all the nuances of respective CoC.
I despise entrapment, AND inconsistent application of obscure rules as much as I despise confiscatory approaches to NOT allowing me to access MY baggage at a transit point. I do not care what the opines are of the initial contributors. Fair is fair! Otherwise there is misinformation and scamming. Make sure that everyone knows "what the rules are" PRIOR to booking. Then apply the "rules" consistently.
Those last 2 statements are the essence of my complaint letter to Tim Clark.
OTOH, what is done is done, and I have a sour taste in my mouth wrt EK and it's treatment of me. I await Mr.Clark's response. No matter, my life with spending discretional income will continue. Onward. From my perspective EK and the Emirate of Dubai will lose my ,onies, AND I will make every effort to tell friends of the callous treatment of visitors to Dubai and of EK pax.
The obscure CoC are irrelevant to me. I am NOT a lawyer and I DO NOT knowingly flaunt any rules imposed by countries/airlines. Any court of law would IMHO understand that - in spite of the "ignorance of the law is no an acceptable defense". IMHO, Few airline pax understand all the nuances of respective CoC.
I despise entrapment, AND inconsistent application of obscure rules as much as I despise confiscatory approaches to NOT allowing me to access MY baggage at a transit point. I do not care what the opines are of the initial contributors. Fair is fair! Otherwise there is misinformation and scamming. Make sure that everyone knows "what the rules are" PRIOR to booking. Then apply the "rules" consistently.
Those last 2 statements are the essence of my complaint letter to Tim Clark.
OTOH, what is done is done, and I have a sour taste in my mouth wrt EK and it's treatment of me. I await Mr.Clark's response. No matter, my life with spending discretional income will continue. Onward. From my perspective EK and the Emirate of Dubai will lose my ,onies, AND I will make every effort to tell friends of the callous treatment of visitors to Dubai and of EK pax.
Apr 27, 2017, 2:47 pm
#29
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,543
I expect that Tim Clarke and the Sheik will be treating this with the importance that is due, especially once they realise that the CoC is not important
