rankourabu

I cant imagine a load of 50 is hard to achieve when you are selling SFO-DXB for <$500 RT. So yes, demand at those prices perhaps exists.

I bought YYZ-DXB RT for <CAD600 on AC nonstops. At that price, yes, I ll suffer the horrible 787 Y seats. So yes, some demand may be there - but what kind of demand?

And yes, I wouldnt put it past AC to start this route and lose money, just to prove a point. Lose the battle, win the war - there is far more at stake here.

EK/EY free access into Canada would be the end of AC/LH TATL beyond Europe.

eternaltransit

Hold on, hold on...

Ignoring the posturing over UAE/Canada traffic rights, I had to flag up rankourabu's post about SFO-DXB fares!

SFO-DXB for 500 USD round trip?!? Please give me the name of your travel agent, because he/she is clearly absurdly well connected!!

By my last reckoning, SFO-DXB was 1.4k USD in Y, 15k USD in J and 30k in F!

djjaguar64

I want AC to prosper but at the same time I think a truly Open Skies Policy will benefit everyone. I would like daily ME3 flights, lets give people a choice here. I also want SQ to start its flight back into Toronto & Vancouver.

rankourabu

No need for a travel agent. Absurdly well connected is FT

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milea...16k-miles.html

Now you see how AC is able to fill planes.

Even YYZ-DXB alone has been hovering around USD630 RT, well below EK's nonstop prices.
I have a friend who paid USD530 from BOS as well about a month ago.

eternaltransit

Indeed ^

I thought you meant EK was 500 USD, in which case I would expect them to go 100% every flight instead of the c. 80-85 I think they are hovering at at the moment!

Pity EK don't award miles based on miles

NOIR

It doesn't make sense for AC to start DXB just to fail deliberately to sabotage EK/EY from getting a chance of flying to YYZ daily in the future.

Look at the big picture, DXB, or even better DWC will be the busiest airport in the world very soon. If I were an airline executive I would make sure my metal is flying to that airport no matter what.

Wpgjetse

But SQ doesn't want to fly into Canada.

eternaltransit

Arguably it's only the busiest airport due to the weight of connecting traffic - actual O&D demand into DXB doesn't I think show the same growth rates as EKs connecting traffic growth.

What might be interesting is if an alliance flew into DXB on one side and another partner flew out on the other

Kiwi Flyer

How would that help? EK has lots of traffic at DXB because it connects from many places to many places.

2 alliance airlines flying into DXB are likely to only be connecting their hubs.

eternaltransit

It was a tongue-in-cheek hypothetical, not a serious plan - I only wanted to highlight that DXB's rise to the top of passenger number tables is on the back of connecting traffic through DXB, mainly on EK, and that other airlines I don't think are basing fleet deployment decisions based on pax numbers at DXB, as NOIR implied, since other airlines will mainly be servicing O&D demand given the lack of onward connectivity...unless another airline alliance were to move into DXB and turn it into a hub for them as well

NOIR

I was thinking a long the same lines. Air India would be Air Canada's best partner in DXB since most of the traffic is from there. I wonder how many Indian cities they connect directly from Dubai at the moment? What's to say they can't add additional cities as well? There is actually so much potential for *A airlines at DXB if you ask me. Now just imagine if United, Lufthansa Group, Ethiopian, SAA, Singapore, Thai, ANA, Air China, Asiana, Egyptian, Royal Jordanian, Tukish, etc, etc all joined forces to there full potential. It wouldn't be a pretty picture. They would all reap the benefits of the spectacular infrastructer/Concourse D.

CaptainEKAirbus

Bear in mind we're also basing our assumptions off of AC's first month at a new long haul route, in traditionally one of the slowest months for North America to Middle East flights.

For comparison's sake, UA appears to be offering flights to DXB from various US cities at almost the same price as AC. If we assume that both AC and UA are catering to similar markets from North America to DXB, and that AC's entry into the market doesn't dilute yields significantly, AC may be able to make DXB work.

I think it's important to remember that a significant portion of the passengers traveling between Canada and the MENA region/Indian sub-continent are not even using this joint venture that AC/LH have setup. For example, passengers traveling via PEK/PVG/HKG/LHR/AMS on the various Chinese and European carriers which make up a very significant percentage of the traffic ex-Canada to the aforementioned regions. These airlines will surely feel the most significant impact of EK/EY entering the market. This doesn't necessarily mean that AC/LH's joint venture is suddenly going to fall apart because of a lack of demand or decreasing yields.

hamzeus

I believe AC has a direct flight now ; YYZ-DEL and thus avoids EK/EY/QR..
Would imagine Air India can service all of India thru DEL and thus wins for both..especially during holiday seasons

http://www.aircanada.com/en/offers/air/delhi/delhi.html
INTRODUCING FLIGHTS TO DELHI ABOARD OUR 787 DREAMLINER STARTING NOVEMBER 2015.

With new flights from Toronto to Delhi we will be offering the only non-stop flight from Canada to India. Fly in the utmost comfort with Air Canada’s award-winning, three-cabin service, including the next generation lie-flat seat in International Business Class, a Premium Economy cabin, and enhanced seatback In-Flight Entertainment system available at every seat throughout the aircraft.

Flight From To Depart Arrive Days of the week
AC050 Toronto Delhi 20:55 21:15 (+ 1 day) Monday*, Wednesday, Friday, Sunday
AC051 Delhi Toronto 00:45 05:00 Tuesday, Wednesday*, Friday, Sunday
All flights operated with the Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner except where noted by (*) which are Boeing 787-8 service

rankourabu

UA's DXB flights depend on govt contractors obligated to fly a US airline based on the FlyAmerica act. Canada does not the same requirements.

Allowing EK/EY into the market freely (without the current subsidy to AC) - would at the very least put a huge dent in their TATL JV. But I agree with you, the bigger losers would be the likes of KL/AF who also funnel traffic via their hubs

And as for AC/UA fares being the same - it has nothing to do with market forces - the JV airlines fix prices. Check AC/UA flights into Europe - and you ll see they are the same.

UA1K_no_more

As you showed in your ignorant rant post in the AB forum. @:-)