irishguy28

Oh yes - I forgot Jet Airways.

Then there's Ethiopian, who start a less-than-daily DUB-LAX service next month

FD1971

Iberia's profits never came from South America and BA is also not benefitting from massive restrictions...so BA took over Iberia because of their brilliant European Network and their killer routes from Asia to Madrid etc.

My friend, understanding aviation is more than a set of results from one year...

What you see taking a look at BA and IB is the result of regulation working out almost perfectly for both airlines, so exactly the difference Clark is praising and demanding at the beginning of the interview...

The fans reading the interview do not realize the crap he is coming up with, but for an educated reader the interview is a beautiful summary of fairy tales that fit him when he needs them.

FD1971

eternal, come on...

Are you seriously comparing a highly restrictive BASA or airport without slots like LHR to a JV that was approved based on the usual criteria we see when companies co-operate (i.e. HHI calculations)

FD1971

Finally...after more than 2000 posts the next apologist understands the intention of EK.

But again, isn't it nice that all the backpackers can fly in style instead of relying on the likes of PIA, Biman or even more obscure carriers on their way to Africa trying to climb the Kili?

It is great and when they stopover at DXB and go up the Burj, spend some time at a mall and buy some Gold, the subsidies for flying them through DXB on EK might even pay off for Dubai.

After thirty years, we have to conclude that Dubai is broke and will probably not be able to reduce the debt significantly, that EK is severely leveraged, but that this approach was the only way to get Dubai on the map.

FD1971

Be careful, passenger migration is a mighty trap and very difficult to measure, even for experts.

Low cost airlines usually create new demand, so often existing passengers do not migrate, but new passengers are able to enter the market due to lower fares being offered by low cost airlines like Ryanair or the ME3.

As pointed out before, India is a difficult market, huge restrictions, mostly low yield traffic, so many other posters fall for just another trap.

The 15 hour A380 is not profitable per se with loads in the 80's (well, still better than 59.9% ) in case 90% of the people onboard purchased a Y ticket at $1000RT.

You have to have a healthy mix in order to fly long-haul and quite often the hub itself has to sustain some O&D traffic, a huge problem for the very small market of DXB with its limited number of residents.

Even markets like DUS (Catchment 150 of close to 20 million people) is not really able to sustain long-haul service aside from the usual suspects and, again, most of the suspects do not really result in healthy margins for the operators.

Another highly sucessful airline, just like the ME3

Watch out, if a passengers stops at a gateway for more than x hours, he is counted as a passenger between two markets, despite the fact that he is in transit and just enjoyed a free stopover, which is paid by Emirates or Dubai, DNATA, Dubai World, Dubai Tourism, Dubai Marketing, well, does not really matter , same pocket anyway.

cargueiro

What are these killer routes from Asia on IB network? IB has never had much of a network in Asia...

FD1971

Another example for the expert approach of some people to this discussion.

Could you (at least...) come up with all the fare classes being offered between the markets instead of relying on a single data piece.

Unfortunately, you will still not have access to the number of seats, which are sold in a certain fare bucket...

As pointed out before, EK is a very low RASM airline, they are a low fare airline, i.e. because someone has to pay for the limo, for the free stopover, so the fare EK is charging is the sum of more components in comparison to LH, to use just one example.

If you really care about the actual numbers, I fear you have to ask an expert to do some forensic accounting of the practices the US3 pointed out in their report, IIRC, 2.3 billion over the last few years for EK alone.

It sounds like a solid business idea to break long journeys into two in order to have passengers spend some money locally.

At the end of the day, someone has to pay for the free stopover, for the free hotel stays, for the free limo rides etc.

At this point, we only know that the debt of both Emirates and Dubai is amazingly high, so I guess either Dubai or Emirates had to pay for the services and borrowed some money doing so.

Again, it is up to you whether you consider Dubai to be a financial scam, if the debt is about twice as high as GDP. Be careful, though, do not offend the Japanese with your comments.

FD1971

Sorry, it seems that you did not get the sarcasm and irony behind that comment.

My bad, I will mark it accordingly the next time.

irishguy28

Maybe I will...if you bring one relevant, concrete piece of data to the discussion!

(so: nothing to do with the Weather Channel, Ryanair, or Dortmund Airport, for example).

irishguy28

Perhaps you could just drop it entirely?

GUWonder

PIA and Biman have scheduled passenger flights to Africa? Fantasies from US3 and EU2/3 apologists? Seems that the latter indeed may be the case.

FD1971

Yes, Biman is fleecing the US consumer with insane fares from Fargo to Kili via Erfurt and Saarbrücken

FD1971

Yes, Biman is fleecing the US consumer with insane fares from Fargo to Kili via Erfurt and Saarbrücken

Excuse me, are you confusing me (I am the one on the playing field) with one of the guys from the stands...

Otherwise, I guess we have to wait two years until the ME3 come up with concrete facts and I guess they will not mention Dortmund, on the other hand, Kloppo might take over the Qatar Soccer Team for the WC...

IIRC, eternal commented that this thread is ordering on the ridiculous from time to time, so sarcasm is my only chance to survive the nonsense certain people have contributed to this discussion, so I beg your pardon for making fun of some of the comments, although in this particular case I should have marked the sarcasm accordingly.

irishguy28

Then perhaps you can drop the football metaphors and talk shop!

For an expert, you are showing an uncommon shyness about displaying your expertise. We are all here because we are interested in aviation; do not insult us by implying that all we can understand are parables, metaphors and analogies. I presume you're aiming for wit - but it's not quite hitting that mark, either.

Wow us with your knowledge. It should be easy, after all - you are the only expert here. And after 5 months and 2,000+ posts in this thread - the consensus here is still against you.

eternaltransit

Of course, there's no denying that IB's profit center is the South American market and that was a major rationale for the merger - bigger rival (BA), sees lucrative route access in new markets available on the cheap due to IBs losses in 2008/2009 and general weakness in the Spanish economy, its attractive cash on balance sheet that it could potentially use to plug its pension deficit and the bar to higher profits in IB being structurally high costs, which Willie Walsh is quite skilled at cutting.

It's taken him 5 years, but I think that strategy is bearing fruit.

But it's still inaccurate to state now that IB and South America provides (and has ever provided) the bulk of IAGs profits. BA is still the profitable airline that has had to support IB during cost cutting and turnaround, wouldn't you say - given the last 5 year results, not just 1 year.

Of course in future, I would expect to see profits coming out of IBs operations as the long-term strategy starts to work.