This reminds me of my favourite episode of 3rd Rock from the Sun. When at a restaurant, Dick places a pile of bills on the table and calls the server over. He explains that this is the potential tip and for everything the server does to please him, he will add to the pile and for everything the server does that displeases him will result in a deduction from the pile. There's logic to that!

Having said that, I come from a country with a minimum wage of approx $12 US per hour for all workers. Tipping happens but if you do tip (and it's passed to the employee, not always the case) then it's a bonus on top of that wage.

It frustrates me, and so many others, that the US system of almost compulsory tipping is to compensate for a poor base pay, in some cases $1-2 per hour. While I would never take that out on the employees, I really would prefer not to have to tip out of guilt.

Don't get me wrong, I do tip well when in the US, but coming back from a Business trip I may have receipts for meals, taxis, drinks to the value of $1200, but actually have spent $1500. My accounts department still don't quite understand the tipping thing. Yes I could tip on my credit card, but not for things like taxis, bell staff etc and it adds up fast!

I fear that a certain poster in this thread has decided to"educate"us flyertalkers as to the care and treatment of the workers in his industry

"I really hate this as they calculate the total including the tax-you should not have to tip on the tax."

Yeah, actually you do. Plenty of tight asses try to skimp on the tip this way, but you tip on the overall cost of the meal.

In the case where you felt jaded by them adding a gratuity, you should have mentioned this to them instead of talking about it with people on a website. In the end, it was shown on your bill. The onus is on you to review your bill.

A couple state an 18% gratuity will be added to your bill. Not a problem for me. The others state to tip on the full amount of the check. But when they add tax, is that considered the full amount? Here in CLE-land I just usually double the tax and add a little, it usually comes out to 15-18%.

If I could only figure how to do math in my head. My wonderful Samsung Sprint phone does not have a tip calculator.

Easy to say, but if you applied that rule in London, you'd never eat out again.

Over the past ~5 years, virtually every place I've seen which charges more than �10 for a main disk also adds a 10-12.5% "optional" service charge onto the bill, which you don't technically have to pay but have to request be removed if you wish.

The HUGE stink is that some restaurant chains (Pizza Express, for instance) actually keep a portion of this optional tip for themselves - they add it to their own bottom line!

"which you don't technically have to pay but have to request be removed if you wish"
And you should ask that it be removed-total nonsense.
Quite common for tips added to the bill on a credit card charge to be skimmed by management Always better to tip the server in cash.

Well written big guy.

I LOATHE the entire concept of tipping. One of the reasons I don't eat out. The other main reason is that I am frugal, and don't see what the big deal is about food. I much prefer to cook and eat my own, or of course have my wife cook too. We share.

As someone else wrote, while waiting does require some skill, it is always going to be a low wage area, simply because the skill set is so lacking.

However, it is closely related to sales work, and you could probably make way more money selling Amway or being a used car salesman, or other sales type jobs that also work on a commission.

Or be like me, self emplyed, where my income is directly related to my effort, [or as sometimes is the case lack of effort]

It is all to subjective for me to enjoy the concept of tipping

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

But of course, the clever chaps who put this on the bill rightly assume that you don't want to look like a cad in front of your dinner mates, and the cost of �5 isn't worth making a fuss over.

Oh, you naive waif.......

For me, who broke in behind a soda fountain at 13 and learned the bartenders' trade as a collegian, splitting tips with cocktail waitresses (before turning to an honest living), the mere sight of an "Auto-Grat"" (sounds like a condition of the bowels I'd rather avoid!) is an offense against public decency, nigh unto mopery in a public conveyance, and may extend to gratuitous abuse and false detainer(although modestly if not warmly acceptable when printed in big type in the menu and at the door).

I generally tip (in the US) at about 20% (of the net, pre-tax check), with a "up" for good service and a "solid hit" for despicable treatment. Whilst I comprehend the frequency with which the hosts of big groups under-tip, and the miserly habits of a dozen couples dining "Dutch" in a restaurant priced higher than their usual haunts, "them's the hazards!"

Don't expect me to be the guarantor of your performance, simply the judge and jury regarding recompense for same.

But, Hell, these days, even cafeterias have "waitrons" wandering about refilling the ice tea ("Sweet?", Unsweet?) and cadging tips...

Actually, you don't have to tip on the tax and not tipping on the tax does not make you a tight .... Even an unscientific source such as the web, repeatedly offers sites that suggest tipping on the pre tax price. Same for wine and liquor - tipping 20% on a $40 bottle of wine is absurd - include a tip for the wine service, but not on the total bottle if costs much over $10 -15.

Just offering up a difference of opinion - but of course I'm always correct

That is correct.Waiter/ress has nothing to do with the tax-it is an auto add on and therfore tips should be calculated on the PRE tax amount.

As to the wine-well that is a touchy subject for me.I do not drink and if my guests order wine I really have no problem paying for a reasonable bottle(If there is such a thing)as they are my guests.Most folks see that I am not drinking and ask that the bottle be billed seperately ^.However-I do not tip full amount on an expensive bottle.$5-$10 is my average.

I already addressed this in my other thread. We're all allowed to have differences of opinion. It's not so much that I care to tell people how to treat their servers, but perhaps a discussion of what actually goes into the job might make people feel differently than they did before.

Your poetic license notwithstanding, I think you miss the point on my posts in this thread. If you tip about 20% for good service, less for bad service, and more for excellent service, then you are doing the exact same thing as I do when I dine out. I'm not sure what makes me a "naive waif". All I posted above is that the "auto-grat" isn't the choice of the server, and that if you would generally tip more than that amount, feel free to add to it.

I personally wish I never had to put the gratuity on any check. My tip percentage is generally higher than what I would get from the 18% gratuity. That being said, it's discriminatory for me to add the service charge to one group while not doing it to another, therefore my management made the policy that it's mandatory on six or more adults.

I certainly don't expect anyone to be the "guarantor of my performance". If I do a good job, treat me as such. If I don't, I haven't earned much. But those in this thread and others that disagree with the premise of tipping (which, quite frankly, sometimes I do myself), seem to be from the same group that would yell at a 16-year old kid for the return policy of a certain store. It's not the fault of that employee, and they shouldn't take it out on him. It's not my fault that society has deemed tipping the standard for server compensation, but stiffing me won't change anything except for my attitude.

Tip whatever you want. I'm tired of arguing with the select few that don't tip (much).


Chris

Chris-just so you know I am NOT a tightwad
My last dining check came to $63.I tipped the waiter $20 because he did an OUTSTANDING job under difficult circumstances-so that is what?35% of the pre tax(the amount you properly should tip on)bill.

Now-as to the auto 18% I think management does this to assure servers get a better than average(15%)tip because tables of six or more are more work and when a party split a check the server often gets shafted by one of the six=solved by the auto tip.

Of course you can tip more-you can always do that to reward excellent service-but you should call any shortcomings in the service to the managers attention and ask that the tip be adjusted.

Then this I wholeheartedly agree on. Like I expounded on elsewhere, if I had my choice, I'd never "grat" a table. Some people take offense; some have the audacity to say "if you wouldn't have put that on there, I would have left you more." That just seems outright rude on their part.

But mainly, I just generally get tipped more than 18% pretax. Why would I want to "force" a tip that's less than my average? That's like taking a voluntary pay cut.

Chris

Then why don't you ask management to do away with the auto gratuity? If you say nothing, they will take that as your tacit approval of the policy. While I have no way of knowing what your true feelings are, I would think that most servers like the insurance policy of a guaranteed 18% tip (which may cost them 2 - 7 % on average) over a non-guaranteed tip. Add me to the group that normally tips 20%+ but refuses to do so if an auto tip is included. If you really believe you would be better off without the auto tip, you should speak up. Perhaps not in your case, but the auto tip has to take away some of the motivation for some servers to provide good service.