No, that would be I-95 through New Jersey(*)

(* or pick any other large interstate in a neighboring state you like to pick on.)

oops should have read Root - posted late at night. I prefer your answer though

To 4444
Really interesting Post
Obviously the subtlety of my post was
Lost on you, although I thought I was using a sledgehammer.
Let's move on

Au contraire

Hi, Chris. I have two adult children and on SIL who work in restaurants. One is as a chef, one as a server, and the SIL as a bartender. All in very fine food restaurants in a San Francisco.

The notion that you "lose" money when people do not tip you to a standard that you expect, to me, betrays a very high sense of entitlement. If you end your shift with more in your pocket than when you started, you have made money. Period.

Gosh, if I expect to earn X dollars in my business, but earn only 95% of x, have I "lost" money? Nope. I have just earned less than I hoped for.

Next, I am very familiar with front of the house back of the house differences in POV. Still, when I see how hard the people in the kitchen work and what kind of skill they must have, I find the whining of the servers when someone disappoints them by leaving only 18% on pre-tax tab to be rather self-involved. When servers can live on 3 shifts and take home much more than line cooks working five shifts, when servers can earn as much as many sous chefs, something is wrong.

Servers are the face of the restaurant. They have to - or at least should - know a lot about the food that others cook - and often carry to the table for them. They need to be pleasant and to create and evening out atmosphere rather than "here's your food, eat and go", and so on.

But I really cannot get over servers who cannot get over themselves while living off the underpaid labor of those in the kitchen.
.

I agree! They are basically the front line employees (in addition to the greeters if applicable) of the business.

Excellent post Teacher49!

I've had a few complaints about this thread, but I think the topic still has further conversation value... so I'll leave it open.

However, lets keep the FT TOS in mind, play nice, and use the Report Bad Post icon rather than fanning flames.

Peace Out

MissyD

I will never, ever, tip more than the auto-grat. As far as I'm concerned, if the server wanted to be tipped appropriately, he would have left it off and commented to me that he/she did so. If I can't be trusted to tip appropriately, then I won't.

When was it ever 10% in the USA? When I was a kid in the 1960s, it was certainly 15%...20 years ago (1988) it was also 15% (as a standard tip).

I've been tipping 15%(minimum)-20% my whole life (even when I was a kid in the third grade, and had to grab lunch at a counter once in a while).

I never tip over and above autograt. If you've taken the decision away from me, you lose the upside as well as the downside.

It's cruel to leave less than the customary amount when service is adequate. However, I resist lobbying by service people to inflate the customary amount. A 15% tip on the food portion of the bill is customary, with some extra thrown in if alcohol is ordered, but certainly not 15% of an expensive bottle of wine.

I tend to leave about 20% of the total bill including alcohol, but I cap it at around $30/person. I consider that overtipping, but I have the means to overtip and I dine out frequently and have relationships with the staff. Only once have I heard a complaint about a $120 tip left on a dinner for four that came to about $1100 with expensive wine. I never returned to that restaurant, but I suggest that the waiter involved seek a new career, perhaps neurosurgery.

QL

The ones the servers love are, indeed, the ones who tip at 20% including the expensive bottles of wine. Common, too.

I've heard the reference @ tax as well... but doesn't work so well in my state (for the server at least)

I was actually stunned when I first started traveling outside of Alaska... since sales tax up here is a foreign concept- No State Sales/Income tax ; ANC- none; other places 3-6%...

I am very frugal though, being on a limited income & dealing with sales tax. I tend to go to inexpensive restaurants, and depending on service the tip is between 10-15%... I have yet to experience the 'extraordinary' service described, but would increase that amount if warranted...

I believe the concept of "double the tax" is a NYC thing since its 8.125% (or so).
There is a ton of debate about tipping on a $300 bottle of wine, as compared to a $75 bottle....is the service any different to warrant tipping on difference? Obviously from the server's point of view, s/he would wish the tip to be based on the total check, but from the diner's frame of reference, the tip is based on service, so does it take any more effort to uncork and pour the $300 bottle?

I was a tipped employee during college, so I know how it feels to be stiffed.

Finally, last week I experienced a first....an autogratuity of 20% for a party of 8 or more.....up to now, this topped out at 18%.

I certainly understand your point Teacher49, but what you're alluding to here is more a case of semantics than anything else. It's very true I don't lose money assuming that I get tipped above 3% (the amount we tip out), but shall I rephrase and say miss out on money that I might have earned otherwise. Granted my income is variable on a night to night basis. I understand that when I go into work, I might walk home with $50, or I might walk home with $200. That's part of the job, and we, as servers, accept that.

And again, I apologize if my tone on earlier posts seemed "whiny" because I'm not complaining if people don't tip more than 18% pre-tax. When I receive that, I'm perfectly content. The main point I tried to convey throughout this thread, much to seemingly everyone else's disdain, is that there are people out there, who, on a $100 tab, would leave their server $20. Those same people, when dining out with some of their friends at a large party, would get a $200 tab, with, let's say a $30 gratuity attached, wouldn't tip anything more than the gratuity. I think if the service in the first case warranted (note: warranted not just was entitled to) 20%, and in the second case, the service was just as good, why should the guest perhaps not "bump" the gratuity $10? Again, this is for great service.

It seems (from my experience as a server) that on the auto-gratuity issue people fall into three camps:

• 15% will leave an additional tip to add up to 20%-ish for good service
• 75% say "Oh, the tips already on there? OK great" and then sign the slip
• 10% get insulted and don't leave anything more because they feel the server is doing them an injustice

I'm obviously fine with the first two groups, but the third is where I take issue. I will repeat the same mantra I've been echoing the entire thread. It is not left up to our discretion if we "grat you". I'm sorry, but my boss doesn't allow me to not put the gratuity on any table of six or more adults. As I've repeated elsewhere in this thread, if I had my choice, and it wasn't discriminatory to pick and choose who I wanted to "grat", I would only "grat" maybe 5% of my large tables. Otherwise, I would like to think I'm a good enough server that 95% of my other tables would leave me >= the 18% pre-tax total. But, alas, I am not allowed to pick and choose, so I'm completely content with the 18%. But, insinuating that I, as the server, am insulting a guest by adding the gratuity is silly. It's a restaurant policy, not mine. So, if you take issue with that, talk to the manager; don't get upset at your server.

I have nothing but respect for the back of the house. Those ladies and gentleman work hard under duress for long hours, and true, often getting paid less than some of the servers. That said, the servers that do make more money than the back of the house better damn well know the food as well as the back of the house. I know I've jumped on the line before during the slower time of the day when most of the line cooks were working on their prep work. If I can't reproduce most of the dishes, I'm not worth my salt as a server. I might not have the same skill and technique as the people who prepare the dishes every day, but I do know all the ingredients that go into our dishes.

Our training is 7 days long, and trainees must learn the major (and some of the minor) ingredients in everything that we serve before ever being put in front of a table. Part of being a good server is being confident knowing the menu inside and out. Guests can sense that. The restaurant I worked at in Seattle had so many minor allergens in its recipes (shrimp paste, candlenuts, etc.) that every server had to memorize an allergy list.

The one way I "justify" what servers make in comparison to others in the restaurant is that servers have to know everyone else's job. We have to know the bartender's job because we are just as responsible for knowing how to make and garnish every drink we serve. We have to know the line cook's job because we are just as responsible for knowing how every dish is prepared. We have to know the host/maitre d's job because we should understand how and why certain tables get sat at what point. Often, we have to also know our manager's job, because we have to deal with problem customers, we have to use discretion in administering policies, and often times we have to take part in scheduling/inventory/paperwork matters.

On top of all that, we have to know our job: how to ring things in, how to most efficiently manage our multiple tables, learning about all the wine, including pairings, all while bringing a pleasant demeanor to our tables. I'm not saying being a server is "tough", but it does take a bit more knowledge and talent than people recognize.

Hopefully I've kept this all pretty level-headed, because I actually like the discussion, and hope people (i.e. one poster trying to stick up for the servers and probably doing more harm than good to the thread) will keep it on topic so that the discussion can continue. I await comments.

Your humble server,
Chris