I believe your explanation, although technically accurate, is not a viable argument.

Let's take your example and use it else where

You say that if you get stiffed all night, you make negative money.

If a hotel has bookings and they all no show, they will make negative money, paying staff, electric while receiving no revenue... but the hotel has few no-shows and they do make money

If an airline has bookings and the pax all don't show, the flight loses money. But only some passengers no show and the flight goes on.

If a bank suddenly has everyone with drawl all their money, they wouldn't have enough to operate. But if only a few people withdraw, they still operate and make money.

IF ALL YOUR CUSTOMERS LEFT NO TIP, I agree you would lose money for that day. But how many times has that happened. I'd think it's just as the examples above. Some customers leave nothing, no show for hotels and airplanes, withdraw from the bank. But, I'm willing to bet you make umpteen times more than you've ever lost. On the average, I'd say a waiter makes more than most people would believe.

I am posting this because I have not heard a reply from anyone about
what the minimum wages are for a service worker.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/programs/whd/...d.htm#Illinois

I would think the state law trumps federal law, but I am guessing.

Very interesting numbers. Thank you, happytravelling.

You know, JayhawkCO, if I were you, I think I would move out of Kansas and find a job in California, Oregon or Washinton.

Just out of curiosity, do you folks think we should tip less in states that do not allow tip credits against the minimum wage?

Actually, that sounds more like a drunk. I wouldn't want to have people like that driving to and from a restaurant -- they'd be well over the legal limit.

Portions of the post that previously appeared in this space has been deleted. I would provide you with a reason why, but doing so would likely be against the TOS.

While I don't know that I would label such a person a "drunk"belive me when I tell you that I know more about food and restaurant service than 80% (or more)than than the customers JayhawkCO is idolizing for the amount of alcohol they are consuming.

Its not a cop out all all. And you don't need to educate the "amateur" diners.

The reality is that there aren't many formal qualifications to be waiter. You need to have a decent personality, the ability to multitask, and be willing to work nights. As with most jobs that don't require a lot experience, education, or "up front work", the supply of people willing to do the job outstrips the number of jobs available. The jobs are demanding, so the turnover is high.

Being a doctor or dentist requires years of schooling and hard work before you get to pay those greens fees. Being a CEO in most cases requires 4 to 6 years of college (undergrad and graduate degrees), and years of "working your way up" in a company.

Anyone can go be a waiter in an Applebees or a Denny's tomorrow. And I imagine that after a few years they could gain enough experience (or contacts) to get a chance at a higher salary by waiting at a more upscale restaurant. The same applies to a UPS or FedEx employee working years in a distribution center sorting boxes before getting the chance at earning that higher salary driving the truck.

So, please, accept the fact that you're in a job where the supply of people willing to do the job outstrips the number of jobs available, accept the fact that you don't need to spend years in school to qualify for your job, accept the fact that you're working "on spec" (you can hit a home run one night and get screwed the next).

But don't whine about a "flawed system."

You clearly have no sense of humor about a quote from a funny movie about the serving industry.

FWIW - there was a court case last year in New York state about mandatory tipping. A guy was arrested when he refused to pay the mandatory tip added to the bill for his large group. The judge threw it out because tips can't be mandatory.

OTOH - when with a group I like it when they auto-add it. Especially if there's more than one person paying.

Telling me to beware that the server might f*** with my food if I do not give a good tip is not funny at all. I didn't recognize the "quote" and don't know what movie he was talking about, but it sounded like a threat. What movie is he quoting from?

Actually, I was a server in Seattle too. It's true that you get paid $7.63 an hour before your tips. But instead of tipping out 3% of my sales as I do in KS, it was closer to 10%. It all equals out.

If having three drinks makes you a drunk, you should see some of the teetotalers that come in my restaurant. A party of two might have a martini before dinner, share a bottle of wine, and then have a glass of port after dinner. Scandalous, I know.

Certainly not. You have to understand there is a difference between eating and dining. Eating is grabbing a sandwich and a coke. Dining is taking the time to make the dinner itself part of the entertainment. Some restaurants (Chili's, Applebee's, T.G.I.F., etc.) cater towards "eaters". High-volume, quick entrees (often fried). Other restaurants (Capital Grille, Morton's, Ruth's, etc.) cater toward "diners". People are going to come out to dinner and take their time to enjoy themselves. No one hops over to Morton's to quick "grab a filet", but people certainly do pop over to Applebee's to "grab a burger". I didn't mean to sound insulting when I used the term "amateur diner", but if you work at a restaurant where people come in and "dine", and instead have someone coming in just to "eat", you would see where there would be a distinction made.

I don't idolize people for their alcohol consumption. If that were the case I'd hang out at the local college campus far more often, so please don't put words in my mouth. And you may very well know more about the industry than those people I referred to as "professional diners". But, if you know as much about the industry as you claim, you would know that tipping 15% before tax is no longer the "industry standard" for good service.

Again, I am making no claims whether or not the current tipping system is flawed, perfect, or otherwise. If I couldn't accept the risks and rewards of the job I would probably actually be using my degree. The fact remains I make more money at my current job than I would make at an entry level position with my B.A. If I actually knew what direction I wanted to head with my career, I would be in that field. Unfortunately I don't, so I might as well be making money at a job with a flexible schedule in the meantime. (Allows me to make those MRs )

The only thing I'm trying to do in this thread is to educate those that think we're a) getting paid tons of money in addition to tips (we're not, actually none) and b) think that not tipping on some portion of a meal is indifferent to their server (it actually makes him/her lose money).

Chris

You have forced me to look into this and I have learned what the minimum wages are for service persons, which I did not know before. The discussions have been most interesting and although there has been a lot of posturing, I have learned something and will give more thought to tipping (but not 20-25%). You have educated some of us and given me a new perspective, so thank you.

Not 3 drinks -- 2 drinks and 1/2 bottle of wine. That's a lot of booze. I'm not a "teetotaler", but even when I'm in Las Vegas and the casino is picking up the whole meal (and I'm not driving anywhere), I don't drink that much with a meal (by the way, I --not the casino pay the tip, usually 20-25% or more). It's either the pre-dinner drink or wine (although I prefer water with meals).

Now that you mention Ruth's Chris Steak House, it reminded me that that was the location of the worst food and the worst service that I have ever experienced. I know that folks who don't eat red meat should probably steer clear of steak houses, but I was going there to dine with friends. I paid the same price as those folks who ordered steaks and was given a plate with six disgusting looking blobs of over cooked vegetables.

We were a large group and a number of folks in our group did not show. We were happy to pitch in and pay for those uneaten meals, but when we asked if we could have those steaks, the wait staff became totally indignant and refused to even consider the possibility that we should be allowed to take that food we paid for.

That experience soured me so completely that I have refused to step foot in Ruth's Chris ever since.

Now that I think about it, every "famous" expensive steak house in which I have ever eaten, with the exception of the Metropolitan Grill in Seattle (which is fantastic no matter what one orders), has been a huge disappointment.

"But, if you know as much about the industry as you claim, you would know that tipping 15% before tax is no longer the "industry standard" for good service."
Might I kindly offer a kind word? Bu@@S##t
The standard has not changed my friend.Things have gotten more expensive-so that 15% might not have the purchasing power that it once did.But food in most places has gone up also-so it is a wash.

And again 15% is a standard for standard service.Not my problem if your employer is greedy and makes you pay his labor cost.And you can always increase your tip by giving me great service.

"The only thing I'm trying to do in this thread is to educate those that think we're a) getting paid tons of money in addition to tips (we're not, actually none) and b) think that not tipping on some portion of a meal is indifferent to their server (it actually makes him/her lose money)."
Some might feel that there is another motive in this-but that might be considered cynical.