Doyle Dane Bernbach was right 60+ years ago, when he took a modest blended Scotch, put it in a new bottle, added a fancy label and box, then doubled the price and told his affluent US audience that Chivas was the Scotch to drink. They did, thus proving that folks will pay more for a pig with lipstick.

I must admit that about half the posters here are overcome with their own affluence, certain that the Bourbons for which they are willing to pay several times the shelf prices of "good" whiskies are immeasurably (or price-justifiably) better. I recall being invited a few years to watch a panel of "Whiskey experts" make a series of entirely incorrect IDs, and pick some modest bottlings over super premiums.

You would have thought they were wine freaks.....

Isn't Chivas like $20-25/bottle? Must have been super cheap before!

Overnight, the price jumped 30%, and sales skyrocketed. Back then, $20 whisky was a premium product. DDB performed a similar miracle for VW.

I blame Robert Parker. Before he wrote about the van winkles (or "pappy") in 2009 or 2010 the stuff used to just sit on the shelves. I could buy the 10 year expression pretty much year round. And the 23 would just sit, because nobody in their right mind would pay $200 for a bottle of American whisky. Then Parker wrote it up in wine spectator and now you can't find the stuff, and it's extended to other bourbons as well. The secondary market is absolutely nuts. But there are some real gems emerging now. Four roses is absolutely killing it right now. Their small batch whisky is the best value around. All of the American whiskeys are really stepping their game up. It's a good time to be a whiskey drinker because there's a lot of excellent stuff out there.

Fdw

You are right, the small batch distillery model is following in the footsteps of the craft brewing business. I don't feel like I can drink it fast enough to keep up. I think there is a market for smaller bottles (375 ml ?) of small batch bourbon, rye and single malt whiskies.

As an update, I tried Rebel Yell as per the Trader Joe's recommendation above -- never again! Just now, I've cracked open a bottle of W. H. Harrison, which is smooth enough that I don't feel the need for their premium product at twice the price.

Sorry for multi-responses, but I just today, while sipping a couple of bourbons, realized, "Hey, there must be a DiningBuzz thread on bourbon!" :D


There sure seems to be. In some ways, it's a good thing: I can justify spending $35-40 on a 375 which I've never tried but which gets good reviews, when I can't quite do the same for a $85 750. In others, it's a bad thing: I'm seeing a lot of $50 375s these days!


I remain hopeful that the majority of the American whiskeys will remain undiscovered outside the US; it's already tough enough (and expensive enough) to find some of my favorites without having to compete with a robust market overseas gobbling it up. It is indeed a great time in the US to be a whiskey drinker, though.


Wasn't that the model used by several luxury watch makers? "We're not selling very well despite having a good product at a great price... well, add a zero to the price! Wow, look at how we're selling now!"


Studies do show that price has an impact on the perception of quality in a product. IIRC, there was one done on wines which showed even the experts tended to give higher scores to wines which they were told were pricier. That said, in blind tastings, I have typically found that I gravitate toward the pricier stuff even when I have no clue what a given spirit costs.


Hey, I rather like some of the High West stuff, for example, and they don't distill much (if any) of their spirits yet. But I'm drinking their American Prairie Reserve right now, which is one of my favorite whiskeys, and I love their Midwinter's Dram rye, too.


I prefer the 20, personally, but I've only seen it once in store, and for $1200 at that. Sorry, as great as it is, I'd pay no more than $300. :eek:

Best in my cellar... hmm, that's a good question. If I limit to bourbons, I love the Filibuster triple cask sherry-finished (untraditional, yes, but so rich in flavor), and one of the Abraham Bowman's I've got is quite nice. Noah's Mill is probably my favorite Kentucky bourbon in my collection at the moment.


When I was in college, Bowman's anything (including bourbon) was rotgut. They now produce only craft-style stuff in bourbons. (I don't even know if it's the same distillery, but it seems likely they were.)

I have a bottle of Balcones Baby Blue corn whiskey at the moment which I can barely drink neat. I love some of their other whiskeys, but there's something funky about that one--and it was $50 or so, so not exactly college student rotgut, either.


Larceny is a good deal in VA for ~$25. I'm tempted to pick up a bottle to try steeping a vanilla bean in (as we do with decent rum); it's not so expensive that I'd be worried about ruining it, but it's also something I'd drink on its own anyway.

Sorry, too late. As I've posted above, you can find the best bourbons in most any high end London bar. And I recently saw the small batch Four Roses in a supermarket in Andorra of all places.

The difference is that high west doesn't try to concot some sort of cockamamie bull story about where their whiskey comes from. Templeton was the worst offenders. High west is very upfront about their sourcing. Yes most rye comes LDIbut at least high west is doing something interesting with the rye they get, whether blending or finishing it. They just re released their Bourye (bourbon rye blend) they I would recommend getting. I just had the good fortune of trying their Rocky Mountain 21 yo rye a couple weeks ago. It was quite good. And I do believe they are aging some of their own product.

Another bottler/distiller to look at is smooth ambler out of WV. Also sourcing a lot of stuff, both bourbon and rye but upfront about it. And it's good stuff at a reasonable price point. They got their own product that I think is three years young right now. It's aging quite nicely.

Fdw

I've only tried their Scout 7 year bourbon, which is good. They, too, are up front about their sourcing (that's why they call it "Scout" after all). I've been tempted to try some of their other bourbons and even ryes; what I need to do is look for it in WV when I visit family instead of picking up a 10 year of theirs in CA...

I tried a sample of High West's bourbon/rye/scotch the other day - not as far out as it sounds. Bought a shot of Basil Hayden, now I know to give that one a pass in future.

That's their Campfire Blend, right? I like it, though not as much as their American Prairie (bourbon) or Midwinter's Night Dram (rye). I'm still debating their Bourye & Son of Bourye (bourbon & rye blends); they're good, but I'm not sure they're at the top of my list.

I believe so, yes. The server at a local bourbon-centric cafe was kind enough to give me a sample, rather than try to explain the flavor. I wouldn't buy it again, but the idea sounds ... harsh, and it really isn't.

I agree with you exerda. Every time I hear somebody say "I wish I could find _____ in _____" I cringe a little. As soon as you can start finding these things around the world, around the world will start gobbling them. The double-barrel-edged sword cuts the bourbon both ways.

It would be nice if I could have my cake and eat it too, without anyone else finding out how yummy the cake is and eating it too. :D

I picked up several on a trip to Nebraska this past weekend. One was an Cedar Ridge Iowa Bourbon, which at ~$32 is decent. I'm tempted to try to track down one of their Reserve Bourbons to see what the extra age yields. Would it be in my top 10, or even 20? No. I'd probably say it's good at a $20-$25 price point, but needs more age, and higher-proof bottling would probably help as well.

Another was the Soldier Valley True American Bourbon, which I picked up primarily for the novelty of the bottle (which is shaped like a WW2-era canteen). However, I'd definitely say it's drinkable. I want to give it another chance tonight to refine my thoughts; I think it's pricey and a novelty purchase that just happens to be decent in taste but nothing special, but again, drinking a dram out of a hotel paper cup isn't a good enough test. :)

Finally, there was a Old Weller Antique 107, which though not local to the region was a good pick-up at $22-ish, given how hard it is to find in Virginia. I like almost everything about that one, particularly the price.


Exactly. I have seen a wider variety of bourbons available in stores in Asia and Europe than in the past, but still even the good stuff is mostly from the larger labels. Yes, some bars are carrying a broader range, too (including more of the small-batch & craft bourbons)... but it's still relatively easy for me to find anything but one or two bourbons in the US--and those can be had at a cost, of course.

Three bottles of Pappy 23 coming to our local liquor monopoly.

Price of $350 (CAN)

May have to buy one!

If you can buy, then give it a whirl. I prefer the 20 but won't turn down the 23. It's a little oaky for my taste.

Fdw

The ongoing saga of the former chief at Balcones continues, the full tale making for good reading of the travails of legal whisk(e)y making.

I continue to be enthralled by the thread, especially having tried some of the whisk(e)y thanks to a spirits-crazed friend with a stuffed wallet and awesome curiosity. Personally, I'd jump at a chance to find "Old Weller 107" for $22, a bargain for a high quality product. Remembering "Four Roses" from my youth, a truly mediocre cheap booze, it's hard to leap at the name.

Meanwhile, day in and day out, I'll stick with the bottling which has carried me long and far in a land of bad whiskey, bad water and dirty-legged women, Dickel's White Label (the Black Label being drinkable, but the hopefully short-lived Red Label lacking body).

Returning from the 3 hour drive from Houston last evening as the sun settled below the yardarm toward the spanker boom, that heavy Waterford tumbler, a few cubes of "hard" ice and 3 ounces of Dickel removed the traffic tension and settled my weary bones.

I'll have to give the White Label a shot. I do like their Barrel Select quite a bit.

I'm not exactly sure where the truth lies at Balcones and Chip Tate but I know one thing: Chip Tate worked hard at crafting a product that he could be proud of. That philosophy can clash with investors who focus on the bottom line. I think he left enough of a legacy at Balcones that they'll still put out good stuff....

Old Weller 107 is one of the best bargains in whiskey. Same mash bill as Pappy at a fraction of the price. Weller 12 also ranks up there. I bought a case of Old Weller for gifts and have plowed through it sadly; leaving me with only 1 bottle left... I would really urge you to try Four Roses again. Not the Yellow Label but the Single Barrel or Small Batch. For years Four Roses sent their best stuff to Japan but they reveresed that trend in recent year (probably starting in 2008). Jim Rutledge is a master distiller and they are really killing it recently. Probably some of my favorite stuff. They do a lot of private barrels for stores that are also nice to look for.

I love having whisky at the end of a hard day... really brings life into focus!

FDW

I will look for the Weller and Four Roses too. Like TMOliver, I'm old enough to remember Four Roses as a bottom shelf brand so thanks to this thread, I am being reeducated.

I like a whiskey at the end of the day to make life a little fuzzier. No reason I shouldn't enjoy every sip though.

FDW speaks the truth. 4R has been crushing it - still great availability and reasonable prices. No reason not to keep a few bottles on your shelf.

The 4R small batch is $29.99 at the local Mega-ABC. That's a very attractive price point. I have guests due in a couple weeks and usually gift them with a bottle of something. I believe I now have a plan.

FIL Swede asked me to pick up two bottles of this...

https://blogofbourbon.wordpress.com/...single-barrel/

One he's keeping here, the other he's bringing back to Sweden.

Skip the small batch and go for the single barrel if they have it. Should be <$40.

FWIW, someone recommended to me blending the Old Weller 107 with the Weller 12 or Weller Special Reserve for imitation Pappy. I haven't tried it as I only have the 107 on hand. (This is the same someone who gifted me a small bottle of Pappy 20 for Christmas.)

I prefer the single barrel as well.. if you can find a store pick barrel that's barrel proof those are great... I love higher proof whiskey (usually 115-130 is the barrel proof) and Four Roses makes a good one...Also the geek in me loves the different recipes that Four Roses has... However, if you ever see the limited edition small batch please pick it up.... it's significantly more (~$80) but usually excellent. This years was good; the previous years amazing...


Ahh poor man's pappy...


I did a 40/60 mix of Weller 12/Weller 107... it's pretty good but honestly I prefer the products as a stand alone...

FDW

It was and I did. It was yesterday afternoon so you must have been sending the vibe prior to posting.

Elijah Craig's 18
 

Elijah Craig's 18, I like mixing it with Scofflaw cocktail.

Elijah Craig 18 was one of the best values in bourbon and my favorite. Too bad it's been off the market since 2012 I think. The 20+ yr releases they've been putting out are over Oakes and overpriced imo.
Fdw

VA ABC stores in this area just got in Stagg, Jr., at $50/bottle and a whopping 134.4 proof. I have to say it's not bad even neat and smoother-drinking than one would expect for such a high-test bourbon. It's going fast, though; stores which showed 5 in stock yesterday show 0 today, and I picked up the last bottle at one of the stores along my commute.

Pretty sure I just read that EC18 will be back on the market by the end of the year. Price will likely be significantly higher though ($100+).

It's awesome and a great way to singe off pesky unwanted nose hairs. I usually put a couple cubes in it to good effect.

interesting - stores around here have had it sitting for months. price is a bit higher though, I think closer to 70. I'd grab it at 50.

Figured this doesn't deserve its own thread and is just as likely to get an answer here: anyone have experience with willett 7yr rye? Found a place with some in stock and wondering if it's worth grabbing.

Sorry, no but I have tried their bourbon and found it above average, particularly at its low-ish price point. The bottle was so pretty, I was tempted to keep it.

Same here. Not a huge rye fan to begin with (though I do like Midwinters Night Dram), but Willet's bourbon is decent for the price, so I kind of expect the rye to be similar.

Yeah I've heard that as well.. which is a shame because it used to be $40 a bottle...
I'll probably buy a bottle for old times sake and then say something like it used to be so much better...

Love barrel proof bourbon... The Big daddy George T Stagg is so amazing. A good buy for barrel proof is also the Elijah Craig Barrel Proof.. should be <$60 a bottle...

It's okay; but a better 7 yr old rye is Smooth Ambler... cheaper and pretty much the same stuff.. most of the rye comes from the same place (LDI out of Indiana) and is just bottled. Wilett is starting to make their own product, but I think it's only been aged 3 yrs at this point.

Willet has two bourbon lines: the pot still (looks like a giant bong) and the Family Estate. The pot still is their non aged stated bourbon. For the most part it is a solid drinker. The Family Estate is where some interesting stuff happens. It's all single barrel; it's all aged to different vintage. none of it is their own production. So it's all different mash bills. Some is average, some is good, and some knocks your socks off... I tend to love it; I still dream about one bottle that I got years ago... It's only sold through their Gift shop and as private barrel picks from liquor stores (they have to buy the whole barrel and bottle it). If you ever run into it definitely give it a try...

FDW

Thanks for the tip - picked up the smooth rambler and also decided to give makers cask strength a try.

Picked up an Angel's Envy Rye yesterday (yeah, not bourbon, but do we even have a rye thread?). Pretty good--and it should be for the $70-ish it ran. Sweeter than most ryes I've tasted, with definite ginger and toffee notes.