Is this shortage still from the crop failure a while back, or are good ryes just so much in fashion? In Europe there's not much of a consumer demand for the higher end stuff, and there's literally a handful of stores which occasionally bring a bottle in but otherwise you're most likely to see it at an upmarket bar where they've been given a bottle or have brought it back from the US themselves.

The fairgrounds guys are good guys. I buy about 25% of my bourbon there... Pappy has rolled out here in MD. It's come and gone. I've been out of town so I for the most part missed it. Thankfully I've been buying booze from the same store since 1997 so they've saved me a 23 yo old.



Fdw

In the USA demand has skyrocketed and the supply that's been put in barrels way outstrips that demand. I mean the bourbon boom probably started here about 2010-2021... So back around the turn of the century their forecast wasn't so rosy. The way aged stuff is pretty much so rare. 23 years ago they didn't anticipate that Pappy would be so huge.

Fdw

My ability for picking winners in food and drinks seems to extend to whisky too. Having just talked about the tasting above, Sazerac 18 and Larue Weller have been awarded #2 and #3 whiskey in the world in the whisky bible:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddr...the-world.html

#1 went to the Sherry Cask version of the Yamazaki. I've not tried it, but the "house" whisky sitting on my shelf is the Yamazaki 12 which is lovely (18 and 30 are even better, but out of my budget for "drinking" spirits in the bar).

Found one of my new favorites this week, as one of our local finer restaurants just released their own Kansas City style bourbon. It's blended with a little bit of Sherry and balances the sweetness nicely. Yum.

Chris

While in Lexington recently I tried Pappy for the first time. I was skeptical that it could live up to the hype but it was hands down the best bourbon I've ever tasted.

I was back in London this weekend and it indeed has become the mecca of Bourbon. Check out these bar photos from the Rosewood hotel....

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/membe...hiskey-bar.jpg

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/membe...-some-more.jpg

How is it that this thread doesn't have a wiki? Of all the threads on FT, this deserves a wiki more than any other. Pictures, spreadsheets of results, pros and cons...

@:-)

Sounds like you just volunteered to create one. Thanks!

There's a pro for staying at the Rosewood.. what are they charging for a pour of PVW23? The bottle of Blanton's straight from the barrel is worth trying; isn't sold in the USA. Though if you're based overseas it's pretty easy to get...

FDW

Regrettably I'm nursing a cold and I didn't want to waste a glass of great bourbon when my taste buds aren't 100% ready for it. Next time I'm in London I'll head back to this bar. But as I think I've posted above, there are several other hotels and restaurants in London that serve these great whiskeys.

if some arent served (by glass) elsewhere, then price doesnt matter, but arent most prices for these kinds of things in london high?

From this thread it seems that it's actually cheaper in London than in the US. Any high end bar in London is going to be very expensive for drinks. At the Rosewood Scarfe's bar I paid 9 pounds for a Manhattan I don't even know what kind of bourbon they used. However if you look above there are some ridiculous prices being paid for RPV 23 in the US. If you can even find it!

The best bourbon I have experienced is the James E. Pepper 1776 15 Year. Great stuff. Actually an Indiana bourbon. James E. Pepper has four whiskeys (2 ryes, 2 bourbons) under the 1776 brand so make sure you are drinking the right one.

I'm sure you know you can't call it Bourbon. Thanks for the tip though.

I'm fond of bourbon, and can't stand adding water to it. Give me a glass of cold water on the side.

HERESY ALERT!

Trader Joe's brand isn't too bad for the price.

True. There's no such thing as Bourbon from Indiana!

I disagree.

True, you won't go to jail for labeling your Indiana whiskey Bourbon. But to a Bourbon purist it has to come from Kentucky, where they've been making it since the 1700's.

Courtesy of csufabel.

There are several bourbon distillers in Texas, the best of which is Garrison Brothers.

Wait, next you'll be saying that the Japanese aren't really producing scotch.

Japenese malt whisky, including some single malts, can be a very fine thing (and some of them downright bargains compared to Scotch) but I've never seen them referred to as "Scotch" except colloquially.

They aren't. It can't be called Scotch unless it's made in Scotland. They can, however, call it whisky every day of the week and twice on Sunday, if they wish. ;)

From that list, I don't see any Bourbon that I know and love from outside of KY. I see a couple of rye's, but those we know come from all over, and the rye itself mostly comes from Canada.

Well I learned something today. I thought it was illegal like calling Schramsberg sparkling wine - 'Champagne' or Yamazaki Whisky - 'Scotch'. BTW, Pritchard's, a great Tenn Whiskey, made a 'Single Malt' a few years back of barley & rye. It tasted more like Irish than Scotch & it was great. Then there's Glenora Distillery in Nova Scotia that won the right to use "Glen'. Their whiskey - meh.

Best & worst Bourbon?
 

AH hirsch 16 yo is delicious. I'm fortunate to have a bottle open and a bottle in reserve. One of the best bourbons ever (look it up). Oh and it's not from Kentucky. Distilled in PA.

Fdw

Fdw, what are you up to later on this afternoon? I can provide the cigars if you are so inclined :D

I had 2 or 3 bottles of Hirsch 20 in my bar a few years back and it was wretched. Most everybody sent it back. It was the only whiskey with age I've ever had that was undrinkable. I'm pretty sure I posted it here a million pages back. Good to hear that they've gotten their sh*t together.

I just tried jack Daniels for the first time the other night. I'm at my mother in law's for Xmas, and it's all she has in the house. It does have a sweet aftertaste...I thought it tasted like what I'd expect from a bottle labeled simply "whiskey". There's not much to it.

Unfortunately I was working.. maybe we should have a little mini Baltimore whiskey DO. I know LM225 is also a whiskey fan....

The Hirsch 20 is nothing like the AH Hirsch 16. They are two completely different products. AH Hirsch 16 was last distilled in 1974 at the old Michters Distillery in PA. Todays Hirsch and todays Michters are in no way related to the old stuff. I know it's confusing but think of it as the old Pan Am related to the attempted revivals over the years. There's an excellent book by CHuck Cowdery which does a solid job exploring the history of this amazing product...

FDW

My local store has a full line up for Pappy but no way am I buying it at these prices.

http://www.empirewine.com/search/?s=pappy

Unfortunately you're seeing the effect of the secondary market.. there's a store near here that has pretty much done the same thing. I'm not a huge fan of the markup. But, there will be someone who will buy it. I work with a guy who has way too much money than he knows what to do with it so last year he bought a bottle of the 15, 20, and 23 for $2300....

The rye is the hardest bottle to get right now. The state of PA got 15 bottles total.... I think it's closer to 19 yrs old...

FDW

Wow. You could fly business class to London and drink PVW in a number of bars for less than $2300. It's not like a rare Burgundy or aged Champagne that is priced like that anywhere in the world. It's just artificially high in the US. But if you can afford it, why not?

I haven't posted on this thread before, so forgive me if I'm a tad redundant.

That said, my favorite bourbon (Assuming we're talking about those in a reasonable price range) is Bookers - of the Jim Beam Small Batch family. For everyday house bourbon - Woodford Reserve - currently on sale here in Alaska's Interior for just 32.00 per bottle.

Bookers is good stuff. Have a bottle open at the moment. I also enjoy Rock Hill Farms as one my go to house bourbons.

Thanks for weighing in Seat 2A. Always a big fan of your trip reports. Bookers is great; high proof which I love. If you're ever in Baltimore let me know and I've got a couple of high proof pours that I think you'll enjoy...

FDW

Marketed as "whiskey", but wanted to mention that I bought a 375 ml (half-fifth) bottle of Port Finish (finished in port casks) Wheat Whiskey from Dry Fly distillery of Spokane. Pricey, but I had come into a bit of extra cash, and wanted to try something a bit ... upscale. DAMN - that stuff is smooth!

FTR, it is marketed as a whiskey because it is whiskey. Scotch and Bourbon are protected terms, whiskey is not. Dry Fly also makes a bourbon, too.

I didn't see any Dry Fly bourbon amongst the offerings, although they did have an extra-alcohol whiskey (60 proof).

I had brought along a bottle of Angels Envy for use after a pheasant hunt a couple of weeks ago. The table had a # of single malts & bourbons our group brought. Angels Envy was the one folks went to for additional drinks. I very much enjoyed it as well.