The Fews vary quite a bit between batches FWIW. The one I picked up--selected from Ace Spirits when I ordered a Kavalan--was nice and not too young tasting.

Finally tracked down some Old Forester BiB while in GA over the weekend. I've had some of their 1870 Original Batch expression before and liked it, but I think the BiB is much nicer. The flavor profile is deeper, the bourbon a bit "rounder" and softer around the edges. I decided not to additionally grab a bottle of their single barrel expression as I think I can find it more easily.

I found bottles of OWA on the shelf here, not even a place on the shelf for WL Weller 12.

I checked a couple places too.

While not my favorite, my "go to" bourbon is the Elijah Craig 12. The 18 is overaged, but the 12 is something wonderful.

Elijah Craig 12 is the Unofficial Bourbon of Flyertalk.

I've never tried it, nor heard of it until I saw it in this thread. And I've been drinking Bourbon since the mid-80's.

W.L. Weller 12
 

I've been able to secure a couple bottles of W.L. Weller 12 year old bourbon. Has to be the hardest to find $27 bourbon in existence. I've enjoyed the WLW 12 in restaurants and bars before but it will be nice to have a ready supply of "Baby Pappy" at home now.

Do any of you bourbon fiends on this thread regularly flip bourbon? It seems like there is a fairly robust secondary market for a lot of bourbons and anyone with access to sought-after bourbons at retail pricing can fairly easily triple their money by reselling on ebay or Craigslist.

Any bourbon flippers out there? Any reason I shouldn't consider buying for resale? (Obviously I would always hold back a bottle or two for my personal stock)


[Edited to add]
Should have read further up this thread for previous discussion on W.L. Weller 12. It does NOT grow on trees here in Texas. It's difficult, but far from impossible, to find here in DFW. Many liquor stores are sold out of it, others do have a few bottles left but keep it in the back and only sell it on request, one bottle at a time.

I have never tried Old Weller Antique. Should I? There is actually a liquor store here in DFW that has 1.5L bottles and bottles of the OWA just sitting around gathering dust.

How does the OWA compare to the WLW12?


Must be the very VERY UNofficial bourbon of Flyertalk. I've been to practically every Flyertalk Horse and Bourbon DO and don't remember ever hearing anything special about Elijah Craig 12, let alone drinking it. Is Elijah Craig now a Heaven Hill product? I know it's a venerable brand.

Hopefully some of the bourbon fiends on this thread will join us at the next FT Horse & Bourbon DO in Kentucky (in April during the Keeneland spring meet, exact dates TBD).

Elijah Craig 12 is probably the super secret, Un-Official Bourbon then. Seems to come up quite a bit in this thread. At least, I seem to think it does.

OWA is worth a try. Should be available.

Anyways, as for "flipping" bourbon, anything you would suggest? I considered doing this with duty-free liquor exclusives but I'd be too tempted to just keep the Scotch/Bourbon for myself. :)

Considering the Horse and Bourbon DO in Kentucky. I'm guessing it's close to Lexington?

As for tonight's Bourbon selection, trying out the Costco Kirkland Signature 7 year old Bourbon. I'm told it is from the Jim Beam distillery and *speculation here* the same mash bill that is Jim Beam Black but this is bottled younger and stronger. So, who knows?

It's not cool and I certainly wouldn't do it. Creates further scarcity and deprives others of the opportunity to try something. Flippers are part of the reason why stores are increasingly keeping their supplies of the good stuff off the shelves.

I generally drink everything I buy. That said, I do have a few bottles (most of them Japanese whisky or Scotch whisky) that I have not opened. The Scotch I would consider "flipping" at some point, I suppose (JW Explorer's Club selections I picked up at Duty Free), but the rest I intend to consume myself.

On the one hand, I understand keeping aside a 2nd bottle with the thought, "That way I can enjoy one, and maybe sell the other some day." On the other hand, the speculators and flippers are despicable scum who have driven up the prices of everything and made it very hard for real enthusiasts to obtain some of the better bourbons out there for their own consumption.

I love having a real "find" when you come across something special in some hole-in-the-wall store, snatch it up, and enjoy it at home.

There needs to be an equitable system of some sort to deal with the reality of scarcity of many products. For VA, I'd love to see them replace their waiting lists (which they no longer allow people to join, and which one doubts the stores even really honored to begin with) with a lottery, where you put down 50% deposits toward the boozes you're interested in, and can win at most 2 bottles of any given spirit and 10 bottles in any given year. Or something--our system in VA is completely broken even accounting for the fact they're state-owned ABC stores.

How has it been? I've seen very mixed reviews... I'd love to see it tasted blind, as I do believe there's an effect of knowing what you're drinking and what it cost.

A friend of mine who has just dropped off one of my children gave me a bottle of Jim Beam Devil's Cut 90 proof, telling me that doesn't like spirits but thought I might like it. I think he won it in some school charity raffle. Not so sure about this one but I might give it a try tonight.

I've just tried the JB Devil's Cut 90 proof. Not really my thing. Harsh and hot. Definitely one to save for the sorts of visitors who want whisk(e)y type spirits mixed with something fizzy. I've placed it next to the truly disgusting JB Apple which I stupidly bought at duty free when someone convinced me would go well with plenty of ice and tonic. Not.

There's a very flattering review of the Devil's Crap here:

http://jason-scotchreviews.blogspot....-kentucky.html

But I'll disagree...it's no Elijah Craig, with whom it shares a price point, and much less a Woodford Reserve, which to me is just fantastic value for money.

Actually getting the stuff at retail is, of course, the challenge. But it seems that there is a robust secondary market in not just Pappy and Weller but anything from the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection, Old Forester Birthday Bourbon. (The latter being one I've never tried) Really anything in limited release and perceived quality...

Hope you can join us. There's already a thread in CommunityBuzz soliciting input for preferred dates for the next edition in Spring 2015 which will coinicide with Keeneland's spring horse racing meet. Lexington is always the headquarters and we fan out from there to go to the track, hit different horse farms, craft breweries and, of course, bourbon distilleries.

I believe that (almost?) every bourbon distilled at the Jim Beam distillery shares the same mashbill. I stopped by Clermont a couple weeks ago on my way to Lexington and asked the Jim Beam tour guide that question. He said he thought that all Beam bourbons including their small batch line, with ONE possible exception, all share the same mashbill.

FWIW, I've always liked most Beam product. Basil Hayden's is my go-to summer bourbon when I want a refreshing light-bodied whiskey. Knob Creek never disappoints. Tried Baker's and Booker's recently for the first time and enjoyed both of them.

Even the mid-shelf Jim Beam that used to show up on AA (AA used to serve Beam Black and Devil's Cut) was drinkable. Nothing great. Nothing I'd buy in a liquor store. But certainly not offensive (I'm looking at you, Wild Turkey).



I understand that us bourbon lovers want to have unlimited access to great bourbons at great prices but since no one seems to throw wine investors under the bus I guess I wonder why I shouldn't take an "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" approach and buy bourbon for investment as well as consumption.

Again, wine investment (fine, call it speculation if you prefer) is an established concept. There are even hedge funds that treat investment in wine as a legitimate category of alternative investments. Why the double standard for bourbon?

In a way, price is truth. The fact that many bourbons appear to be trading at 2x-4x premia to their retail pricing indicates that these are undervalued assets.

Despicable scum seems pretty harsh. Do you feel the same way about people who invest in wine? Is it not possible to be both an enthusiastic consumer and intelligent investor in a product you enjoy?

If someone is going to exploit an arbitrage, why shouldn't it be me?

I have a fundamental problem with it because it isn't truly a free market. The market is distorted by states and/or distributors. If distilleries could bottle a product and sell directly to retail or consumers at a market-determined price, I'd have less of an issue.

I think your review is spot on. My main interaction with it has been on AA, always mixed with Coke Zero. In that scenario it performs just fine but in all other scenarios as you said I don't find it worth buying over others in the same price range.

Especially here in NC where the ABC stores sell Devil's Cut at roughly the same price as Elijah Craig and Buffalo Trace among others. If I want something to just mix with soda here might as well just grab it's cheaper cousins.

I've decide to make ribs tonight; that's where there JB Apple will get used up!

I find it to be drinkable. The very first thought I had when I tasted it was Jim Beam White Label.

I'd buy it again but for the most part, it's probably a mixer bourbon.

I am not even remotely figuring I will land a heavily-allocated release in VA. I picked up another plain-old Sazerac (VA ABCs apparently just got in more). I'm debating a Yellow Stone 7 Year bourbon ($105, pricey!) which a few ABCs have near me, and a Whistle Pig Old World Finish ($130-$140, in MD) right now.

I'll be in Anne Arundel County, MD, this Saturday, and also in Montgomery County--anywhere in particular I should stop? My wife and I have a dog Halloween party in Colombia, MD, then are going to the zombie walk in Silver Spring later in the day. I always like to check MD liquor shops for the different selection when able... any favorites in either Colombia or Silver Spring, or along the way from VA?

I saw plenty of Four Roses Single Barrel and Four Roses Small Batch at the supermarket yesterday for 17 and 14 bucks respectively. Are these any good or just run of the mill bourbon?

Down that area Perfect Pour is solid. They have had barrel selects in the past but not sure about right now. If you want Pappy hit up Pine Orchard but be prepared to pay secondary prices. Silver spring is considered Montgomery county I think so availability is searchable online.

Fdw

Solid bourbon. Those are amazing prices. Typically 30-35 here in MD.

Fdw

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/membe...973-roses2.jpg

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/membe...972-roses1.jpg

Same here. I can't recall seeing it under $30.

Those are fantastic prices. The only places I've seen anything similar are Costcos with sale items (e.g. a Lagavulin 16 for ~$45, which is less than half what it goes for in VA ABC shops), and courtesy of a friend who shops at "Class 6" stores (e.g. at the military PX, where apparently it's tax-free).

I really like the single barrel Four Roses, but it usually sets me back $40.

Wait those are euro prices... and euro bottlings so only 70 cl bottles.. skip them.. just kidding... Amazing prices.. I can't even wrap my head around those prices.. they clearly had to ship the bottles across the ocean and yet are a huge magnitude cheaper than you can find within spitting distance of the distillery.... does that US system (distillery->distributor->retail) plus US alcohol taxes really add that much?????

FDW

I should have said those prices are duty-free. So the same bottle in French store or UK would have 20% sales tax. But even then it sounds like you guys are saying it's cheap.

Ahh, therein lies the rub.

It's that Euro conversion and the smaller bottle.

I'd still try it. And a bottle of John B. Stetson as well.

You refer to Euros as "bucks"?

Interesting.

Yes, it's a slang word that is not owned by the dollar. However as this is a US dominated thread I probably should have said "euro-bucks". Sorry. Maybe someone can do the full Euro-dollar conversion and 70 to 75cl or whatever it is.

No worries.

Still, it's a great deal on some great bourbon.

I believe that comes out to about $0.27/cl USD for the 70cl in Europe vs $0.40/cl USD for the 75cl in the US (assuming current exchange rate and $30 for bottle in US).

So a good deal and even better where prices are above $30 in the US

stimpy, can I ask where or what the River shop is where you are buying these?

Probably more like $0.53/cl for me. I re-checked my local shop and the going price for the single barrel is $39.99. $0.27 is an excellent deal.

Andorra is the place for buying alcohol and tobacco in Europe. Tax free and due to all of the commerce that goes on there they have huge supplies of both. For the more popular liquors you can buy 5 liter bottles. :) Pastis, Scotch, Spanish Brandy, etc. I just wish they could get some of the more rare Bourbon in. You can also buy a jug of 96% grain alcohol and make your own liquor. Limoncello, yum!

4 roses single barrel is a no brainer at that price - generally one of the best all-around values going these days

Ordered a few bottles of the Four Roses Small Batch Limited Edition 2015. This year's is a bit older than the 2014, and it's the last release made under Jim Rutledge's direction.

Did you order from a place that had them in stock...? it's a fairly hard find this year.. Ive heard it's better than last years but not quite as good as 2013....

FDW

Yes, they had them in stock. I've kind of given up walking door to door around the neighborhood looking for these special releases. 9 times they aren't in stock and the 10th the store is asking hundreds of dollars for them. I wish I could find a 2013...would love to do a '13, '14, '15 vertical tasting!

Thanks for the recommendations! ^

Stopped by Perfect Pour this morning and marveled at some of the Scotch available for far better prices than in VA (didn't buy any, though; I was there for bourbon). Picked up Orphan Barrel's Rhetoric 21-year expression--I'm not entirely sold on Orphan Barrel, but hey, it's not everyday you can find 21-year-old bourbon for $100 instead of 5x-10x that price. Also picked up a Filibuster blend of rye and bourbon I hadn't come across before.

Not sure if I'll stop this evening in Silver Spring or not; I think I've spent my budget on booze for the week already, and have trips out west coming up soon which means I'll be bringing back anything and everything I don't see around here.