slawecki

we are quite old, and neither of us eat half a 3 course meal. we request that the leftovrs be boxed. on most occasions, the leftover box has twice as much as we left.

chgoeditor

Really? I want to restate this just to ensure I'm reading correctly: The etiquette speaker said that you SHOULD ask for a doggy bag if you have leftovers at a business meal or the person you're dining with would think you're rude? I'd love to know the name of this etiquette expert. My guess is that he/she has never had a business dinner.

ETA: Not to put too fine of a point on it, but this "etiquette expert" is helping to perpetuate every bad stereotype that exists about attorneys.

For example, you're dining with a new client. You ask to take your leftovers home. The client thinks, "Great, I'm paying this guy $XXX an hour, buying him lunch AND buying him dinner, too?"

You're an associate and dining with a partner at your new firm. You ask to take home the leftovers. The partner thinks, "Gee, he must think we're not paying him enough..." or "Way to take advantage of my hospitality by ordering more than you could eat so you'd have leftovers."

You're taking a prospective client out and footing the bill. You ask to take home the leftovers. The prospective client thinks, "Hmm...this guy has questionable ethics. Ordering more than he could eat, charging it to the company and subsidizing his own dining budget. I'm sure I'll pay for a lot of this guy's meals if I end up hiring him!"

I'm not saying that people WILL always have these thoughts, but do you really want to run the risk that they do? It's one thing if it's a business meal with someone you know really well. It's another thing if you're making a first impression with someone you've never met before or someone who's just getting to know you. I think the etiquette expert would have been better served by offering this advice, "When you go out for a business meal, don't order more than you can eat in a single sitting."

Yahillwe

Wonder who taught that etiquette class.

KevinDTW

That is interesting. When I was in law school in the 1980's we were advised that meals with prospective employers (and later with clients) were to be navigated carefully. Your objective was not to order whatever you wanted and truly enjoy the meal, but rather to avoid any pitfalls that might embarrass you or make you stand out in a negative way. Don't over-order or order anything potentially messy or smelly, never order alcohol unless absolutely necessary (and then keep to a one drink max), don't order an app or dessert unless everyone else does, etc.

I would never leave a business meal carrying a doggie bag or container of leftovers, but maybe times have changed. In my personal life I do it all the time, but never with a client or prospective client (or employer, if that's the situation).

Perhaps slightly OT, but here's a related story you might find amusing/instructive. Years ago I was working at a major NYC firm and a few of us took a group of summer associates out to a well-known restaurant. One summer guy announced that he was currently in the "induction phase" of the Atkins diet and proceeded to order nothing but chicken with the skin on, which he ate with his hands. Anything really wrong with that? No, but you can be sure that he stood out, and not in a good way. From what I understand it's tough enough being a law student/baby lawyer these days, so you definitely want to avoid attracting that kind of attention.

chgoeditor

Yes! Making my point much more eloquently than I did.

Yahillwe

This is general manners for every day life. One never orders the most expensive item on the menu (or what they feel like eating) {follow your host}, no salad/ spinach (crunch noises and might get stuck in the teeth. No pasta and especially with tomato sauce.

You NEVER EVER start eating before your host/client, neither drink.

Maybe I should open an etiquette school.

I never take left overs, since I tend not to over order and don't like left overs.

CosmosHuman

Serving portions in the US are very large. I go to a local family type Italian place and order veal Parmesan, it comes with salad, side of pasta, and bread + olive oil dip. I can never finish the meal. It is just way too much. Taking home a to-go box is the norm. I don't call them doggie bags, as giving that to my Jack Russell would make him ill.

KevinDTW

You might be surprised how many otherwise intelligent law students could benefit from that! It would be much more useful and important to their future careers than much of what is taught at law school. Any law students out there who get an interview or summer gig at a firm -- remember that they already think you're smart enough to do the job, but now they want to see if you're the type of person with whom they want to spend their time. Don't be the guy with chicken grease on his hands and face.

Cloudship

I am not lawyer, but...

Wile I agree the best option would be to order just enough that you will eat everything, personally I would think less of a Lawyer if I watched him order something, eat half of it, and just wave off the rest. If he is going to throw away the rest of his meal, how is he going to treat my money? I would rather see frugality than waste. But that is from someone who rarely gets to eat in fancy places.

KevinDTW

I completely agree -- perception is everything in these situations; that's why I included "don't over-order" in my post.

Yahillwe

When I get invited to either friends houses (whom I know are bad cooks) or to a restaurant with friends, I normally have a small bite to eat before hand, no matter what, crackers etc. This way, I don't stay hungry or over order, and can have a small plate and finish it. One doesn't need to order those big plates. Sometimes a couple of "appetizers" are more than enough. Or skip that, or ask for the veal without the pasta but with a small salad. There is a hundred ways to skin a cat and not look bad.

I taught my kids that they NEVER EVER EVER, no matter how much the host insists on ordering, they should always should order the most moderately priced dish.

cubbie

Illinois is one of the states that has only recently enacted a "wine doggie bag" law. It is a good thing, I think, in that it removes the inhibition against ordering a bottle of wine (which is cheaper than wine by the glass) in a restaurant. There are some specifics about how the bottle must be sealed in a plastic bag by the restaurant. It is such a new thing here that neither restaurants nor patrons seem very accustomed to the idea, and I wonder how accustomed cops are to the idea. I think if I took the remainder of a bottle of wine home from a restaurant, I'd put it in the trunk rather than in the back seat of the car. Yes, supposedly it's legal, but if he's already stopped you for something, why give him something else to hassle you about? Have you met Chicago cops?

It's probably the lingering influence of my Depresssion-era parents, but I wash and reuse Ziplock bags too, at least once, anyway -- *unless* they have have had raw meat in them. If a Ziplock bag seems possibly not suitable for food storage any more, I can still find non-food things to use it for around the house: batteries, hardware bits, electronics, change, pencils, little bottles of travel shampoo and conditioner, etc.

I agree with Cloudship that sometimes in the US, saying you will take the rest of your food home has an element of politeness about it. The nonconfrontational among us (like me) take that route, rather than say no, I didn't care for it.

My dad used to moonlight as a bartender at a country club and would sometimes bring home really nice leftovers (steak or lobster) that a patron had forgotten and left on the table, even though the kitchen staff had packaged them very attractively in an aluminum foil version of a swan, for example. Oh now, if you're freaking out about my dad bringing home someone else's leftovers, I'll just say he was lower on the list than the younger, immigrant kitchen staff, and he did have nine mouths to feed.

darthbimmer

I boggle at that advice. While taking home leftovers from a dinner with family or friends is commonplace in the US, doing so at a business dinner is fairly taboo.

The difference may seem arbitrary at first glance but consider it for just a moment.... When dining out with friends or family you are normally spending your own money. Taking home the leftovers says, "I don't waste my money." Maybe you knew you ordered more than you could eat. But it's your money. When dining out in a business environment you are typically spending someone else's money-- your employer's, your client's, your customer's, etc. Taking home leftovers there generally says, "I am greedy and I am trying to get from you everything I can." It's especially true if you over ordered. That really smacks of taking advantage of the person paying.

CMK10

You know, I love this forum, it's one of my favorites on Flyertalk for many reasons. Great comments on the etiquette point.

I used to be in outside sales so I've dined with my fair share of clients and I thought the leftovers advice was really weird. I used to always order something I knew I wouldn't spill on myself and that I wouldn't have to worry about having lefotvers with (can't go wrong with an entree salad) and I think he should have suggested something like this.

cbn42

I think this is quite reasonable. If you don't ask for a doggy bag without a good reason, then it indicates that you either didn't like the meal or are a wasteful person. I wouldn't want to hire someone who wasted half a plate of food in front of me. Is he going to waste project supplies as well? Is he going to be a responsible employee?

There was a time when wasting food and other products was a sign of status because it showed that you had money to spare. That era is long gone, at least in the western world.