Hmmmm, yeah, ok...

Try Per Se, TFL, Eleven Madison Park, and literally hundreds (if not thousands) of places across the US.

If you really want great service - the exception being if one is a raging a-hole/DYKWIA type - it's simply not that hard to find.

Thanks, just wondering. I've found lots of places with great service in Europe at all ends of the pricing spectrum, the earlier poster got me wondering if it does exist in the US.

A few weeks ago we went to South Beach and pretty much every restaurant was adding a tip of 17-18%. Some mad mention of it on the menu or on the bill and a few didnt. Pretty much all of them had "Additional tip" instead of tip/gratuity.

I believe I share the majority view of members here in that I do not mind tipping on a voluntary basis. Just when did it become automatic ?

Both my sons waited on table during University years before moving on to other professions. They went out of their way to treat everyone as special guests, especially foreign travellers, and it paid dividends. In Europe it is actually a full time profession, more so than other countries, and we respect that fact.

Large groups may trigger an automatic 18 % tip inclusion in North America, but I would counter that the meal, wine, and service should reasonably meet my full expectation. A friendly and accomodating staff, a good table location, clean tableware, good wines, and the meal " As described and As expected " certainly merits at least a 20 % tip.

Conversely, poor seating or accomodation, noise, filthy conditions, unprofessional, sullen behaviour from the staff, " off " wines, and a less than acceptable meal would never justify 18% tip inclusion, even in North America.

If you wish to return to our table every 5 minutes without prompting, interupting us by shouting " IS EVERYTHING OK ? " then please, at least try and look me in the eye, attempting to sound sincere, rather than bothered. Just like smoking in front of the customer, it is not actually OK, as it ruins the evening. And that may impact and thus diminish your gratuity.

Otherwise, the automatic gratuity becomes an unearned expectation, similar to what we used to experience in the former dreary and dismal East Germany. Nothng more.

I recall recently that some well-known celebrity names were furthering the damage regarding tipping expectations, by misappropriating gratuities from the staff that had actually earned it, into their own pockets. Perhaps these are the same restaurants mentioned in this post. That action qualifies as the lowest of lows, or stealing from employees. I have the right of choice, and keep track of these " celebrity restaurants " which as a result will never see my credit card, cash, my guests, or my shoe print on the carpet inside. Ever.

No restaurant anywhere deserves tips automatically. One tips as a sign of respect for good, earned service.

This is the first of your issues

You do realize the points I've bolded have absolutely nothing to do with the efforts and attitude of your server, right?

If you do not like your proffered table, the time to correct this is when first being seated -- something most often done by the Maitre d' or a Host/ess. Just ask; I did this just this evening and was moved to a much more pleasant location.

"Off" wines would only in the rarest of occasions be attributable to your server; the sommelier or GM would be the one to address this.

And as for a "less than acceptable meal", why would you hold a server responsible for the efforts of the kitchen?

I don't mean to direct these at you in particular, Swissaire, yours was just the most recent post.

In the context of the original post regarding inclusive gratuity, we don't agree. Your good experience this evening just does not apply to all cases.

The server is an extension, or representative of the restaurant, good or bad. I do not suggest punishing the server for a bad meal: In fact, it is my point to avoid that by negating automatic gratuities in a bill. Allow me to explain.

By your logic, the "automatic tip" included in the receipt would be sustained and thus paid without comment, if the evening was good or bad. Furthering that logic, that gratuity automatically goes to the " house " or restaurant, and not specifically to the serving staff.

You cannot dispute an automatic gratuity inclusion by discourse with the Maitre d', then the Sommelier, then the Executive Chef, right down to the dishwasher. Monty Python comes to mind. I just doesn't work.

In many instances, the server actually is the Hostess, Bartender, and Sommelier.

In ideal circumstances, one could ask for another table ahead of ordering. However I can recall many instances of being seated by a hostess only to find 30 minutes later a unwanted distraction immediately nearby.

I saw that this year in North America at a Birthday celebration for two elderly people in their '90's in a party of 20. Although other joined tables were 50 % unnoccupied, the server when informed of the loud music versus the party, quietly walked away. ( Yellow card ).

When pressed again by the couple whom had reserved the affair, and thus were paying for the afternoon, both were told simply by the same server " Sorry: Either on the terrace, (where we already were) or in the Bar. " ( Red card ).

To everyone's credit, we remained and made the best of it. The loud music played on, 3 metres from our table. The hostess could have done her homework much better with the reservation by thinking things out, the server could have done a better job in repositioning the party, but no attempt was made that I observed. Zero.

But the automatic gratuity was included, and as far as I saw paid. But for good service and a memorable afternoon ? No.

Why bother ? There is no incentive to perform as a professional with an automatic gratuity added to the bill.

Ahhh, I see what you are saying. I don't know that we agree 100%, but I do believe our views are fairly closely aligned.

the practice of automatic 18% gratuities in SoBe is so prevalent, i have to wonder if the restaurants' owners/managers are getting a cut. any current or former SoBe servers who could shed some light on the subject? do they keep 100% of the gratuity? is there some other deal, like reduced wages that are made up for by the gratuity?

is this part of "it's a well known fact" package. speak for yourself, only.

the server in a reasonably large restaurant is responsible for the service. nothing else. corked wine(10%) is from the wholesaler. music usually cannot be touched by the server. the food is from the kitchen. yes, owners and managers steal from employees.

in italy there is an item on the bill "coperto" do you not pay that?

noise is frequently the choice of the investors. a decent new york style restaurant must have noise at a deafening level. breeds "excitement"

the worst theft i ever heard of, was a restaurant took the withholding moneys from the employees. since most were illegals, they could not go after the ex owners.

As we are discussing auto-tipping, and I remain completely on topic here, as before, can someone please describe how the default percentage in the US (and certainly for the auto-tip places) has crept ever upwards, from 10-15%, to 15% as standard, and in recent years has advanced to 18%. In Manhattan anything less than 20% now seems to invite sour comments (presumably this is all part of the "great service"). This is despite menu pricing advancing faster than inflation.

With all this money sloshing around unaudited, it is no surprise that those around the edges have muscled in on the action. Restaurant owners and managers skimming tips added to the check, sometimes considerably so. Backroom staff now wanting a cut. The supply of employees falling into the hands of those who expect a kickback. This is all obviously easier to do where the tip is automatically added. I have always had the practice of paying the main check on a credit card, then giving the tip in cash. This is a UK practice which appears to be very much appreciated in the US, I can assure you; you can't do it with auto-tipping.

In answer to the point above about poor table offerigs or poor food being nothing to do with the server and therefore not grounds for reducing the gratuity, now that in so many places the rest of the personnel expect a cut of the tips, including the host and the kitchen staff, then the tip represents all standards of the overall service.

As a S. Florida restaurant, and previous Miami Beach resident, I can assure you that most restaurants there do automatically include the 18% tip and most give minimal notice to the customer that this is being done. Every bill I was ever presented with still has the area for "gratuity" and if you're weren't paying attention, you would probably pay an additional tip.

As an aside, be VERY careful with credit cards there. I generally try and pay cash for everything on the beach as I have had my credit card information swiped 3 times now. (Fortunately, because I am so paranoid, it was my corporate card - I was on business). I did however find a creative way to dispute the charges on one... I arrived home one trip to see that Victoria's Secret had declined my order and needed to speak to me immediately... I sent them a picture of my shorts clad behind and assured them that I wouldn't fit into a size 0... I never heard another word.

I have heard people complain when a service charge is added automatically to the restaurant bill, but I prefer it. If I pay a restaurant bill where the tip is not included when it comes to submitting my expenses I get questioned about if I have "really paid that much tip", and I've even had 9 pence deducted from my reimbursement because the rounded up tip I gave was over 15% (enough said). I have no problems deleting the tip if the service was crap either, and I think it says way more if you deny someone a tip this way round.

Overall, my life is much simpler when the tip is automatically added. Am I alone in liking this? I've never met anyone else who prefers it this way.

I find it very presumptuous of the establishment to add it on, and it puts me in a bad mood.

It is extremely bad form.