The "Tip Included in the Bill" thread
#181
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: in the vicinity of SFO
Programs: AA 2MM (LT-PLT, PPro for this year)
Posts: 19,784
http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog...on-surcharges/
http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog...-to-offenders/
Interesting that they're able to crack down on it; I'd always figured it was as much as scam as YQ (fuel surcharge on airline tickets.)
#182

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: UK / India
Programs: SPG Gold, BA oik, TK pleb, EY Hoi Polloi
Posts: 87
I fail to see how it is my problem that waiting staff get screwed by their employer if I don't leave what I consider to be a completely optional service charge. If the employee has a grievance, then it should be with the employer, not me, and to accuse ME of stealing? sorry, what? I don't pay an optional fee, therefore I steal. How is that in the least bit logical in any other industry?
We, like most of the civilised world, have a minimum wage to ensure that workers are not slaves. If the US treats "tipping jobs" differently, then that is not my problem. What is worse, it is expected that I reward (pay) for someone if they provide a poor service. You may want me to cause a fuss to management, but when I pay for a meal, I expect a meal, in a reasonable state, in a reasonable time. nothing more, nothing less. I'm not paying to have an argument. I also fail to see why serving me an expensive dish is worth more to the person serving me than a cheap one. It's not like they're doing more work, is it? a plate is a plate, regardless of whether it has caviar-stuffed lobster or a big-mac on it. It's not my job to employ someone for a service when I've already paid for it. That's the restaurant's job.
If the US system is set up in a manner which requires irrational behaviour to function, "because that's the way it's always done", then that's not my problem. The only other times that "optional" charges are actually mandatory, are where you are involved in corruption and bribery to get things done.
All of the above said, when in the US, I pay the 15/17/18/20% is to avoid confrontation, and partially because the server is caught in the system and relatively powerless (but that doesn't stop them lobbying for a law change in a free country, does it), but that doesn't prevent me from begrudging the system in the first place. Besides, it gives me something to complain about in the pub when I get home
#183




Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: QFF Gold, Flying Blue, Enrich
Posts: 5,369
As an English person, in the UK by not leaving a tip, I am stating that the service was adequate, and not outstanding. If I complain, then the service is REALLY bad. If I PAY someone, it's because they've done something really personally wonderful.
I fail to see how it is my problem that waiting staff get screwed by their employer if I don't leave what I consider to be a completely optional service charge. If the employee has a grievance, then it should be with the employer, not me, and to accuse ME of stealing? sorry, what? I don't pay an optional fee, therefore I steal. How is that in the least bit logical in any other industry?
We, like most of the civilised world, have a minimum wage to ensure that workers are not slaves. If the US treats "tipping jobs" differently, then that is not my problem. What is worse, it is expected that I reward (pay) for someone if they provide a poor service. You may want me to cause a fuss to management, but when I pay for a meal, I expect a meal, in a reasonable state, in a reasonable time. nothing more, nothing less. I'm not paying to have an argument. I also fail to see why serving me an expensive dish is worth more to the person serving me than a cheap one. It's not like they're doing more work, is it? a plate is a plate, regardless of whether it has caviar-stuffed lobster or a big-mac on it. It's not my job to employ someone for a service when I've already paid for it. That's the restaurant's job.
If the US system is set up in a manner which requires irrational behaviour to function, "because that's the way it's always done", then that's not my problem. The only other times that "optional" charges are actually mandatory, are where you are involved in corruption and bribery to get things done.
All of the above said, when in the US, I pay the 15/17/18/20% is to avoid confrontation, and partially because the server is caught in the system and relatively powerless (but that doesn't stop them lobbying for a law change in a free country, does it), but that doesn't prevent me from begrudging the system in the first place. Besides, it gives me something to complain about in the pub when I get home
I fail to see how it is my problem that waiting staff get screwed by their employer if I don't leave what I consider to be a completely optional service charge. If the employee has a grievance, then it should be with the employer, not me, and to accuse ME of stealing? sorry, what? I don't pay an optional fee, therefore I steal. How is that in the least bit logical in any other industry?
We, like most of the civilised world, have a minimum wage to ensure that workers are not slaves. If the US treats "tipping jobs" differently, then that is not my problem. What is worse, it is expected that I reward (pay) for someone if they provide a poor service. You may want me to cause a fuss to management, but when I pay for a meal, I expect a meal, in a reasonable state, in a reasonable time. nothing more, nothing less. I'm not paying to have an argument. I also fail to see why serving me an expensive dish is worth more to the person serving me than a cheap one. It's not like they're doing more work, is it? a plate is a plate, regardless of whether it has caviar-stuffed lobster or a big-mac on it. It's not my job to employ someone for a service when I've already paid for it. That's the restaurant's job.
If the US system is set up in a manner which requires irrational behaviour to function, "because that's the way it's always done", then that's not my problem. The only other times that "optional" charges are actually mandatory, are where you are involved in corruption and bribery to get things done.
All of the above said, when in the US, I pay the 15/17/18/20% is to avoid confrontation, and partially because the server is caught in the system and relatively powerless (but that doesn't stop them lobbying for a law change in a free country, does it), but that doesn't prevent me from begrudging the system in the first place. Besides, it gives me something to complain about in the pub when I get home

I detest the practice of tipping, however in the days when I used to travel to the US I would tip in restaurants because, well, that's what you do. Like most residents of civilised countries I find the US disease of tipping anything that moves to be a mystery, so if anything I would overtip to avoid embarrassment.
If the tip was included in the bill, and this was clear before I dined, then so be it; I would pay exactly what was on the bill, not a cent more no matter how good the service was. I don't recall ever coming across this.
If I received a lecture about the necessity for tipping I would probably thank the lecturer, explain that I understand how the system works and then leave. Again, this had never happened to me.
I find it hard to believe that anyone who traveled to the US wouldn't know about tipping, particularly in restaurants. They mightn't know why, but they know that it needs to be done.
#184




Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,773
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/working/bens-...ps-bonuses.htm
#185
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Programs: AAdvantage Executive Platinum, Delta Silver Medallion, Marriott Gold, United Silver, IHG Platinum
Posts: 16,446
The tip included in the bill is really only in exceptional circumstances: large parties (usually six or more) and on holidays -- Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's Eve -- when restaurants typically serve from a limited, price fixe menu and include a tip of 18-20% in the bill, something which is clearly stated when you make your reservation and on the menu itself.
This has never bothered me. It seems to me that if a server is willing to take the time and energy to work with a larger party (never an easy task) or to work a holiday (ugh!), then the restaurant management should set up the infrastructure to make life a little easier.
This has never bothered me. It seems to me that if a server is willing to take the time and energy to work with a larger party (never an easy task) or to work a holiday (ugh!), then the restaurant management should set up the infrastructure to make life a little easier.
#186




Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SE England
Programs: Amex Cent and all that comes with it
Posts: 345
Conceptually the same in the UK, and doubtless elsewhere as well. Waiters are taxed on notional tipping amounts here as well.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/working/bens-...ps-bonuses.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/working/bens-...ps-bonuses.htm
"Sometimes tips are pooled and then shared out between all the staff. This is known as a tronc and the person who shares out the tips is called a 'troncmaster'."
Just imagine asking for the 'troncmaster' 
Adey
#187
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: CLT
Programs: Choice Hotels/FFOCUS
Posts: 7,259
The tip included in the bill is really only in exceptional circumstances: large parties (usually six or more) and on holidays -- Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's Eve -- when restaurants typically serve from a limited, price fixe menu and include a tip of 18-20% in the bill, something which is clearly stated when you make your reservation and on the menu itself.
This has never bothered me. It seems to me that if a server is willing to take the time and energy to work with a larger party (never an easy task) or to work a holiday (ugh!), then the restaurant management should set up the infrastructure to make life a little easier.
This has never bothered me. It seems to me that if a server is willing to take the time and energy to work with a larger party (never an easy task) or to work a holiday (ugh!), then the restaurant management should set up the infrastructure to make life a little easier.

