The "Tip Included in the Bill" thread
#31


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No. This gets me fired up. It's a brutal way of bashing waitstaff, who are hapless.
The tipping custom exists because it's a custom (inertia - in the U.S.) and is based in the philosophy that if it's separate, better service results. Win for the customer, win for the restaurant, supposedly a win for the waitstaff.
Putting the waitstaff's benefits out on the cuff is just cruel. It's in the vein of The Powers That Be in the auto industry floating the idea in the media - talk radio etc. - that $1,500 ($3,500?) of every car sold goes to employee health care. There the game and dynamics might be different -- e.g., it's part of negotiation leverage between management and the union. But college student restaurant servers?
Give.Me.A.Break.
The tipping custom exists because it's a custom (inertia - in the U.S.) and is based in the philosophy that if it's separate, better service results. Win for the customer, win for the restaurant, supposedly a win for the waitstaff.
Putting the waitstaff's benefits out on the cuff is just cruel. It's in the vein of The Powers That Be in the auto industry floating the idea in the media - talk radio etc. - that $1,500 ($3,500?) of every car sold goes to employee health care. There the game and dynamics might be different -- e.g., it's part of negotiation leverage between management and the union. But college student restaurant servers?
Give.Me.A.Break.
#32
Join Date: Feb 2002
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They get health care benefits now. This is a major victory for them versus in any other city.
You have to look at the REALLY big picture. There's a reason I kept mentioning only small businesses and not specifically restaurants in general. Large corp restaurants likely already offer benefits or could absorb the cost of providing it. It's the small mom and pops that can't. Also, there's rent control in this City. This means newer businesses are at a severe disadvantage compared to older ones. It's not so simple as seeing all the cheap/bad ones go out of business and having good ones who incorporate higher prices and benefits moving in. The new ones still have to compete with the prices of the older stores, yet have dramatically higher costs. I know a few families who started businesses in SF and what the owners ended up taking home was scarily small in many cases. The risks and hurdles of running a restaurant in SF are much higher than in many other cities. When they fail, sorry, but ALL the employees lose their jobs too. They can't all be fancy places with high prices providing larger profit margins.
I'm not sure how many members on this board can see that. Majority seem to be frequent flyers which I'm gonna assume means they're not running small mom & pop retail establishments.
You have to look at the REALLY big picture. There's a reason I kept mentioning only small businesses and not specifically restaurants in general. Large corp restaurants likely already offer benefits or could absorb the cost of providing it. It's the small mom and pops that can't. Also, there's rent control in this City. This means newer businesses are at a severe disadvantage compared to older ones. It's not so simple as seeing all the cheap/bad ones go out of business and having good ones who incorporate higher prices and benefits moving in. The new ones still have to compete with the prices of the older stores, yet have dramatically higher costs. I know a few families who started businesses in SF and what the owners ended up taking home was scarily small in many cases. The risks and hurdles of running a restaurant in SF are much higher than in many other cities. When they fail, sorry, but ALL the employees lose their jobs too. They can't all be fancy places with high prices providing larger profit margins.
I'm not sure how many members on this board can see that. Majority seem to be frequent flyers which I'm gonna assume means they're not running small mom & pop retail establishments.
#33




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And now off to OMNI...
#34


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I don't have a dog in that fight, but, if anything, it would seem that every check showing the charge is a dig against the mayor if he instituted the health benefits for employees (as well as against the health benefits).
#37
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#38
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Was it a large group? Many restaurants do this for parties of, for example, six or more. It should be stated on the menu if this is the practice. Otherwise, you can insist that it be taken off the bill and tip as you consider appropriate.
#39


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There are a very few places in the U.S. where it's not uncommon for restaurants to automatically add the tip to the bill, independently of the number of diners. I've had this happen in Miami Beach, too, so it's possible that this is one of those places.
#40
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1. Most restaurants which cater to groups add a gratuity at a specific size such as 6 or 8 people. It's generally made clear at the time the reservation is made and is noted on the menu. This leaves people who don't like it, free to dine elsewhere. Same sort of things with split checks (one check per party, up to the host to pay or collect).
2. Rarely and typically only in locations which cater largely to people from countries where it's the custom to include "service" in the final bill, have I seen restaurants do it to all checks. Miami is one of those areas. It's not that the visitors are cheap, it's just that they are used to service being included, so they leave a very small tip for great service and that leaves the staff screw*d.
2. Rarely and typically only in locations which cater largely to people from countries where it's the custom to include "service" in the final bill, have I seen restaurants do it to all checks. Miami is one of those areas. It's not that the visitors are cheap, it's just that they are used to service being included, so they leave a very small tip for great service and that leaves the staff screw*d.
#41
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Without turning this into another tipping thread, it's bad enough that in the states we have the tipping culture but it's downright insulting when they choose the amount an include the tip on the bill (I understand when it's a big party though) I always tell them to take it off and often will mention to a manager if I see one that the concept is insulting to both their customers and their staff, because if their staff is any good they'll likely receive the same or bigger tip.
#42
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Restaurants in Miami Beach do this frequently because they get a lot of visitors who don't tip - having said that, you can ask the manager to reduce or remove the tip if you feel the service didn't warrant 18% (I can only think of ONE restaurant in Miami Beach where 18% would be appropriate) - and if it was not disclosed on the menu ahead of time, you are under no legal obligation to pay it.
Since you mentioned Miami Beach, I want to remind folks to be wary of a scam that many restaurants in that area like to pull - they either add additional items to your bill, modify the prices or sometimes substitute a "shill" bill (someone else's bill with the same number of entrees but higher prices or a dessert/appetizer added).
Always check your bill carefully when eating in Miami Beach (this probably holds true for most tourist destinations worldwide) and don't hesitate to threaten to call the police if they make a stink over the wrong bill (insisting you ordered something you did not) or refusing to reduce the tip amount.
Since you mentioned Miami Beach, I want to remind folks to be wary of a scam that many restaurants in that area like to pull - they either add additional items to your bill, modify the prices or sometimes substitute a "shill" bill (someone else's bill with the same number of entrees but higher prices or a dessert/appetizer added).
Always check your bill carefully when eating in Miami Beach (this probably holds true for most tourist destinations worldwide) and don't hesitate to threaten to call the police if they make a stink over the wrong bill (insisting you ordered something you did not) or refusing to reduce the tip amount.
#43
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You can also make a fuss with American Express.
I've also seen places add the tip but deny it when asked, in hopes of your tipping again.
I've also seen places add the tip but deny it when asked, in hopes of your tipping again.
#44


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I'm a US citizen with a British accent. In all my years living in the States I can recall two occasions in which a server chose to pad my bill with an 18% tip before giving it to me. Regardless of the quality of service received, both walked away with a zero tip and a clear explanation as to why this was the case. I normally tip like any other American would, but regard this particular practice as dishonest 'sleight of hand' at best, and attempted theft at worst - and I will not tolerate it under any circumstances.

