I hate tipping, how can we end it?
#241
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,573
Amen.
And on top of your bill, there is 13% tax - so really - you end up paying 25-30% premium on your bill.
Anyone ever tells me service is not included - they are getting zero tip.
Unlike some, I have no problems leaving zero tip, and at most rounding up to the nearest dollar.
It used to be "tip the tax" - but when tax went down from 15% to 13%, it somehow went up to - tip 20%.... 20%... I dont think so.
We had a group go out and got smacked with an 18% mandatory service charge - we counted out pennies for exact change on the bill. If they didnt have the charge, the tip would ve been likely larger.
And on top of your bill, there is 13% tax - so really - you end up paying 25-30% premium on your bill.
Anyone ever tells me service is not included - they are getting zero tip.
Unlike some, I have no problems leaving zero tip, and at most rounding up to the nearest dollar.
It used to be "tip the tax" - but when tax went down from 15% to 13%, it somehow went up to - tip 20%.... 20%... I dont think so.
We had a group go out and got smacked with an 18% mandatory service charge - we counted out pennies for exact change on the bill. If they didnt have the charge, the tip would ve been likely larger.
#242
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Yup, the whole 'tip the tax' thing used to be how I did it. But now with the mobile credit card machines they use, where you enter the tip %, if you notice, the % goes on the whole bill (including tax) which I am guessing most people don't entirely think about - my guess is servers end up better off with these machines as with paper, you tip your % on the base (as you see it in front of you) but on the machine the % key puts it on the whole thing (make sense?) So now I do often 'tip the tax' acknowledging that 13% post tax is pretty close to 15% pre tax.
The server doesn't see the % on the bill, just the tip amount.
But I agree its a bit misleading.
#243
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Aurora, CO
Programs: Statusless and proud
Posts: 7,582
For me, things being removed / cleared bit by bit as the server passes does drive me slowly nuts. I consider it polite to say thank you as my plates are cleared, and if I am having to do it every time a ramekin, a side plate, a breadbasket etc is removed it is disruptive. But equally I wouldn't ignore the server, so for me, clearing once per course is the ideal - anything else I find unnecessary.
And there I think that we come to the heart of the matter.
You are thinking in terms of efficiency, just as many people in North America say that they want to get 'in and out' and get upset in parts of the rest of the world if the server doesn't bring them the bill automatically.
For many people, going out to eat a meal isn't about efficiency. It is about the experience, and rushing the customer or making them feel that they need to hurry isn't a positive experience. (Unless of course it is 'fast' food)
It is a pet peeve of mine when the server comes and clears items or plates one by one, or a few at a time, rather than clearing the table at the end of the main course. And as already stated, it makes the last diner(s) with a plate in front of them feel that they must rush, and be uncomfortable.
I actually consider this method poor service, even knowing that it is an American habit. Usually I can make allowances for differences in how things are done, but why should the customer be made to feel rushed so that you can be more efficient?
But then again, if the server isn't making a salary (or a few dollars an hour) then they are more focussed on turning tables than on service, and again, it is the tipping culture which creates that scenario.
Question: do you as a server use the cutlery as an indicator of whether the customer is finished? ie crossed cutlery indicates 'still working on it' while cutlery laid at an angle side by side indicates 'I am finished'.
You are thinking in terms of efficiency, just as many people in North America say that they want to get 'in and out' and get upset in parts of the rest of the world if the server doesn't bring them the bill automatically.
For many people, going out to eat a meal isn't about efficiency. It is about the experience, and rushing the customer or making them feel that they need to hurry isn't a positive experience. (Unless of course it is 'fast' food)
It is a pet peeve of mine when the server comes and clears items or plates one by one, or a few at a time, rather than clearing the table at the end of the main course. And as already stated, it makes the last diner(s) with a plate in front of them feel that they must rush, and be uncomfortable.
I actually consider this method poor service, even knowing that it is an American habit. Usually I can make allowances for differences in how things are done, but why should the customer be made to feel rushed so that you can be more efficient?
But then again, if the server isn't making a salary (or a few dollars an hour) then they are more focussed on turning tables than on service, and again, it is the tipping culture which creates that scenario.
Question: do you as a server use the cutlery as an indicator of whether the customer is finished? ie crossed cutlery indicates 'still working on it' while cutlery laid at an angle side by side indicates 'I am finished'.
Concerning the "pre-bussing" (as it's known in the industry) of plates throughout the meal, I do my best to never make a special trip just to clear plates. I use some kind of segue (either checking on the meal or refilling a water) to eliminate interruptions to the best of my ability. It's not like I'm going to reach across the table to grab a Sweet N Low wrapper while someone is trying to reach a million dollar deal with a client. That said, even if I do clear plates at some point, I'm always going to do it completely silently to cause as little commotion as I can. Asking "are you still enjoying your plate" is as idiotic of a question as saying "Here's another Coke" when you set down a refill. Neither statement is required. If you're a smart server, you don't need to ask if someone is finished because you've either a) noticed the silverware in the "done" position, or b) been keeping an eye on the table so keenly that you know they haven't taken a bite in over ten minutes.
I don't think you need to say "ideally" you would never leave only one person with an entree plate, that should never happen. You're in control of the plates; they don't take themselves to the kitchen.
I appreciate the efficiency argument, and Americans tend to be used to having things taken away quickly, but the reason you shouldn't take away dinner plates until everyone is done eating is for the comfort of the diners, especially the last diner to finish.
People eat at different speeds for various reasons. When you're the only one eating and the server has taken every other item off the table, down to the salt and pepper shakers, and you're still sitting there eating it makes you feel awkward and uncomfortable, and suggests that you need to rush to finish up quickly. That's not a nice note to end a meal on.
Particularly when I'm dining with only one other person, even if my plate is completely empty I'll say "no" if they ask if I'm finished with it if the other person is still eating. It would be better if the didn't even attempt to take it away in the first place.
I appreciate the efficiency argument, and Americans tend to be used to having things taken away quickly, but the reason you shouldn't take away dinner plates until everyone is done eating is for the comfort of the diners, especially the last diner to finish.
People eat at different speeds for various reasons. When you're the only one eating and the server has taken every other item off the table, down to the salt and pepper shakers, and you're still sitting there eating it makes you feel awkward and uncomfortable, and suggests that you need to rush to finish up quickly. That's not a nice note to end a meal on.
Particularly when I'm dining with only one other person, even if my plate is completely empty I'll say "no" if they ask if I'm finished with it if the other person is still eating. It would be better if the didn't even attempt to take it away in the first place.
Chris
#244
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
Question for you (or others) regarding tipping at buffets or limited service places:
What is the norm for a tip at a buffet in America, whether low end or high end? Working buffets was actually something which required a lot of attention as it was important to remove the plate as soon as a diner stood up to return to the buffet. It may not have required as much physical work ie carrying loaded plates, but required a lot of care and attention. Yet often it is perceived as the 'easiest' type of service. And often in European restaurants which have a buffet breakfast I am brought a hard boiled egg which has to be specially ordered, cooked, and brought from the kitchen, so there is service involved beyond serving myself.
The other scenario is a limited service place. Take for example a chain of conveyor belt sushi restaurants popular in Hawaii. I think that I 'over-tipped' recently because the extent of the service was filling a water glass, bringing a pot of tea, and tallying plates. Payment was at the counter at the exit.
So, what would be the 'acceptable' percentage of tip in these types of restaurants in America?
I said earlier that I was enjoying the discussion with Chris and some others about 'service'. But since you are concerned about your budget, and didn't seem to understand variances in tipping, I suggested that you read the thread about that specific topic, in an effort to be helpful. Apologies for trying to assist.
#245
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: LAX
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This is why I like restaurants in Japan.
They offer great service that puts most waiters and waitresses in the US and Europe to shame and they don't ask for tip; instead they even consider tipping as an insult. ^
Why can't the US be more like this?
They offer great service that puts most waiters and waitresses in the US and Europe to shame and they don't ask for tip; instead they even consider tipping as an insult. ^
Why can't the US be more like this?
#246
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
But I am curious to hear advice on what to tip in future there.
#247
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: K+K
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Posts: 4,882
That was part of my tipping dilemma the other day. I was in a Japanese restaurant, with Japanese staff, and it wasn't considered 'full service' but it was in the US so I was really confused as to what to tip. If the restaurant had been in Japan no issue. If had been a full service restaurant in America, no issue.
But I am curious to hear advice on what to tip in future there.
But I am curious to hear advice on what to tip in future there.
#248
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: LAX
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#249
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
Do you still tip 18-20% in this case?
This was a conveyor belt sushi/hot item place and the only service was water glasses and tea brought once. I tipped more than 20% by the way. But what is the recommended norm in America for this?
#250
Join Date: Jul 2006
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But what percentage? See my question about buffets and not quite full service restaurants above.
Do you still tip 18-20% in this case?
This was a conveyor belt sushi/hot item place and the only service was water glasses and tea brought once. I tipped more than 20% by the way. But what is the recommended norm in America for this?
Do you still tip 18-20% in this case?
This was a conveyor belt sushi/hot item place and the only service was water glasses and tea brought once. I tipped more than 20% by the way. But what is the recommended norm in America for this?
As for calculating tax, just download a Tip calculator app onto your iPhone or Android device. I pretty much just enter the tab, set the tip rate, round off to the nearest dollar and I'm out of there.
#251
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Aurora, CO
Programs: Statusless and proud
Posts: 7,582
Alas, I don't remember the last time I ate at a buffet, so I can't comment specifically on the norm in the US. I'd say dropping your normal percentage by 5% is probably good. (So for most people, 10-15% tip)
Chris
Chris
#253
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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I generally tip at least 20% unless the service is lousy, but at buffets where server only delivers drinks, removes a few plates, and delivers the check, it's usually about $1/person.
#255
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Santa Cruz, CA USA
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Your total cost would be the same. The "capitalist incentive" that is so engrained in American society would be removed from servers and their performance, and until the US develops a different ethic, wherein people do their best even if they are not working for a tip, things will not change.