And some Internet heroes who feel safe and smug doling out insults towards strangers while cowering behind the anonymity of a computer.

I love tipping. Paying for performance. The competent & energetic get rewarded. The clueless & disinterested get punished. Not everyone has the personality for the service industry. The good ones make $$. The others do not & eventually figure out that they had better do something else for a living.

Well, there's no such thing as a free lunch, anywhere, so you're paying for staff wages one way or another, whether by tipping in the USA, or by higher menu prices in Australia to cover the fixed wages and evening and weekend penalty rates.

As many can attest, restaurant staff in the USA can do very well out of tips.

Funny how someone who refuses to give waiters (many of whom make $50K+ a year) 15-20% extra at the end of their meal is "cheap" and "misanthropic", but when we have a measure on the ballot to raise sales tax by 0.25% so that our schools can increase salaries of teachers who are getting paid $40K, it gets soundly defeated.

I hate the tipping system, and I make it known both on the internet and in real life. I don't hesitate to share my views with servers and managers when appropriate. Usually I just tip the standard 15%, but I adjust it in either direction as appropriate. And before anyone calls me cheap, I would wager that I donate a higher percentage of my income to charity than the average American, but I donate it to people based on their needs and not on social pressure.

As a non American, I think its very confusing when we should tip or not. When I first visited America, I messed it up several times by firstly undertipping then overcompensated later so as not to offend.

I got a cab, the fare was about 9.20 USD and gave him 10 and said keep the change...he wasnt impressed, whereas thatd be fine in the UK. Hadnt realised id insulted him and called him again the next day and he kept us waiting 45 mins and drove past us twice and said "this time you'll give me a real tip"
Also, stayed in a cheap hotel and at breakfast on the menu said "breakfast is included, but the tip isn't" Had no idea how much to leave and had to ask.

Then theres the hotels, bars, restaurants, cruises etc and it takes time to learn who gets the tips and who doesn't. It can all be quite stressful for an overseas visitor who doesnt know the rules.

I can think of several other occasions when ive just been unsure who to tip and how much. I end up when changing money now asking at the exchange for some $1's just to be sure.

I actually enjoy tipping at home because its based on good service, not automatically received and expected.

I'm quite aware of that, and as I said I'm happy to pay my way - I've never asked for a free lunch in my life. But by using customers as de facto paymasters that's exactly what those foreign restaurant owners are doing.

Do you feel especially manly having defended the honor of cheap, misantropic FTers? :D

And who specifically are these "cheap, misantropic (sic) FTers"?

"Cheap" and "misanthropic" are subjective.

Who do you nominate?

Mrs. Fredd and I are now visiting South Africa and empathize with your confusion.

Realizing that many people here rely on tips for their income (as some do in the U.S.), we want to get it right and neither undertip nor overtip.

Yet various "authorities" differ greatly as to the appropriate amounts for some services. As one example, one site authoritatively states that an appropriate tip for hotel maids in a luxury property is the Rand equivalent of US $5-10 daily. :eek: Other sites say $1-2 so we'll go with that.

As to your other experiences, I sympathize as well. It's hard to tell with taxi drivers. Your tip seems adequate to me. If you had thrown an additional buck that suddenly becomes a very large % tip.

I wonder if it was something of a reaction to you as a foreigner (if your accent identified you as one) and trying to bully you into a larger tip, just as I notice sometimes in other countries when the taxi driver expects a large tip because I'm an American and my countrymen have set some unfortunate precedents. I've experienced the next thing to a snarl in a couple of European countries even when I know I've tipped fairly by local standards.

Still, that taxi driver might have given any American a hard time as well for the same tip.

Are you serious? How is giving an automatic 15% tip to everyone 'paying for performance'?
If I were a waiter and I received 15% for poor/ordinary service, and 15-20% for going out of my way to perform better.. I'd stick with the guaranteed 15% :)

For some reason you have no conception of what I meant. In the States I have the option of tipping or not. I have given well in excess of 100% tips and I've given zero with a note critiquing their service and my displeasure. Where did you get the automatic 15% thing from my post ? That's certainly not how it works in the US & especially with me.

Not according to my extensive experience, along with others in this thread. Ever try tipping 10% in Manhattan after bad service? I have, and I've been treated like crap at that particular restaurant ever since.

Do you think the majority of people in the US act like you when confronted with bad service?

In saner parts of the world terrible service is not an excuse to
(a) reduce one's tip to 15% down from the customary 20%
or
(b) reduce one's tip down to 0% and leave a note explaining your reasoning

it should be (c)
Call the manager over, tell him the service was rubbish, tell him why, tell him it's his responsibility, ask for recompense / discount, pay the bill and leave no tip

I love Japan
 

No tipping solicited or expected. Excellent service everywhere we have been also.

I'd love to bow to your "extensive experience", but I've got a little bit of my own. I tended bar in SF for 20+ years and ended up owning a bar and 3 restaurants over the years. First of all, I don't think most people can differentiate between bad service, a kitchen problem, and a waiter buried with tables. In all my stores and just about every place I worked, any overt reaction to a bad tip was cause for dismissal. Most places will suspend you for a week, if they don't can your *ss. I've fired good waiters and good friends for this. When working for somebody else, I had a guy buy the house 6 rounds (400 + drinks) and stiff me. I kept my mouth shut. I've also had plenty of $100 tips on a couple drinks. The staff has to be taught that it all evens out. They always want to forget the great tips they got for doing absolutely nothing. I always tell 'em to worry about your tips by the week and save yourselves the aggravation. Maybe a dozen times I've stiffed a waiter due to indifference and each time I was absolutely furious. I'm easier on incompetents as long as they're trying.

That's great for you and your establishments, but as a customer I've gotten plenty of bad reactions. This thread, and just about any other tipping thread in FT, is full of such stories.

That's normal, not cheap.

You really can't win with taxis; unlike waitstaff, there's not nearly such a consistent rule, and IME urban driving it's a job that tends to turn people disagreeable.

I'm not sure where you were that you'd be calling an individual metered taxi (or where non-metered would be an odd rate like $9.20), or where taxis would be so scarce that you'd wait for 45 minutes rather than hailing another one or calling a different service.

I can't say I've gone anywhere in Manhattan regularly enough to worry about service the next time in about 20 years, but if I were a regular someplace (or thinking I'd be back regularly, although poor service on a first trip would be the sort of thing to disincline me from doing so!) I'd be inclined to speak to the manager over anything that required me to reduce my tip significantly.

Luckily, in most of the states 15% is still within the customary range.

Certainly.

In some cases, you can nip the bad service in the bud partway through the meal, get the manager to address it before the entire meal is ruined.

I'd like to say that these examples of tipping less got the message across quite effectively. Better then a comment card to the manager. The establishment can either be professional about it and try better or react negatively and risk getting tipped less or losing a customer. I wouldnt take bad reactions personally. I've tipped less at establishments I frequented but upon returning to good service, I would tip more.

It was in West Palm beach. Was a driver who''d we'd had the day before and who'd given us his personal number (before we'd paid). As I thought we'd gotten along well, we waited, plus we were on holiday there and didnt know any better.
My point is that as a tourist I want to tip normally for the place i'm at but often don't know how much that is and even not sure on all circumstances when its applicable.

Well, that tells you how much I get out to buffets. ;)

You're right, in most cases. In those cases, I seem to recall just leaving the tip in cash on the table.

Some buffets, though, especially those where the buffet is an option but ordering off the menu is also an option, are pay-at-the-end.

At buffets I tip the server what ever I deem necessary. I have never heard of this tipping at stations thing.

I think that I certainly would have given him a 'proper' tip second time around - nothing for that behaviour!

You've decided who is cheap and misanthropic, man up and come out with it.

The rule about tipping is really very simple.
I work for my money.If they don't work for theirs they don't get any of mine.
And anyone tipping anything more than 10-15% because they feel obliged to need their head examined.

I'd be glad to go through this thread and provide a list of those I think are cheap, misanthropic, or both. However, since that could be construed as a personal attack and violate the terms of use, I will not do so unless given a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card by the moderator.

I'll offer another option. I'll name names and if I get some sort of punishment, you will be subject to the same (terminated, suspended 30 days, slap on the wrist, etc.). If you're really that curious about what I think, you'd go for that.

If you're not that curious, knock it off with trying to get me to name names...it's pretty obvious reading the thread anyway.

NB: Since I have been dinged for misspelling "misanthropic" once, I will make another correction. I used the word "cheap" in a colloquial sense. "Stingy" is what I really mean.

Tipping in gambling meccas has different "rules"
 

Las Vegas (and other gambling meccas) are different from elsewhere (in the Universe:D). You are dealing with a different sort of person:p.
This is probably the reason why numerous publications (which are left by housekeeping in your room) have a "tip" page--the list is extensive.
Even these "tip happy" publications, still only list $2/person at buffets (up from $1 awhile ago). The "station" tipping (I noted in an earlier post), may be unique (except possibly for omelets) for LAS; but, at these you always find a few dollar bills (conspicuously) present in hands reach of the preparer.
Some tipping "rules" (per the publications noted above) would only apply to gambling locations: (1)if you are playing table games, it is suggested that you tip the employee regularly, based on your bet, (2) when you win a SLOT MACHINE jackpot, two people come to pay your prize, a security guard and a slot attendant, each of these are supposed to receive a tip--WHY?
[I once had a jackpot of $2000 (exactly), the attendant returned with 19 $100 bills, 4 $20's, 4 $5's--why not just 20 $100--the implication is that I tip some of the smaller bills.
[In another thread here on FT, a gambler noted that if he did well, he would tip his limo driver $100--the airport in LAS is about a 15 minute drive from most hotels.]

With all of these different rules floating around, a book could be published to the principals, logic and range of tips. When I was in Europe, where tipping lower was the norm, the establishments still try to get tourists to tip more than the norm. I felt out of place, but I tipped less and tried to keep my ear to the ground for the norm. Generally, I don't deviate much, although I don't know how much to tip if say we were on a tour and the guide at the end had a box for tips. How much do you tip then. 15% of the entire tour cost seems much to me, but is this the norm, or is a lower amount acceptable?

The American "slide rule and calculator" approach is not necessary in Europe. Just give whatever seems reasonable at the time. If you've only got €1.65 in loose change give that. If you want to give €5, give that. It's all good. If your pockets are empty , give nothing. The only arbiter of what amount is "acceptable" is you.

The tours in Europe were confusing to say the least. We crammed 6 tours in six days and its true, that money and loose change to follow the principals you are talking about.

Just recently did a Kauai Na Pali coast Catamaran tour on Captain Andy's Southern Star. I was able to post the tip on credit card at the desk. In this case what would be the appropriate amount to tip on a $550 tour? I figure the food portion is worth $120. Tipping in tours are so difficult to figure out. That's an $85 tip if I go by the 17% rule.

what if the "suggested tip" is completely wrong?
 

just a few days ago, i encountered a receipt that included "suggested tips" with 15% and 20%. but whatever the numbers were, they weren't 15% or 20%. i could not find any permutation of the total (pre-tax or post-tax, with or without drinks, and randomly excluding an item) that would make a total that matched the suggested 15% tip.

has anyone else encountered this before - where the precalculated "helpful" tip amounts are not the percentages they claim to be?

Could it be that the net amount (suggested) included a 15% tip on the tip amount?:D:D:D
[If the price were say $50, the tip @15% would be $7.50, so the "suggested" amount would be $50 + $7.50 + $1.13 (this last number (rounded) is 15% of $7.50)--in the world of tipping anything is possible (even probable:p).

A multiday catamaran tour sounds like a cruise, and cruise tips are their own crooked world entirely.

I'm not a big package-tour guy, but my father-in law used them a ton, and his MO was to slip their guide a $20 note (or the local equivalent) at the end of a multi-day tour. Seems about right.

Received a bill the other night at Blue Dragon on big island and the suggested tip did not make sense in the least. I ignored and tipped based on my usual method if calculation. I hope the servers aren't used to receiving the suggested tip amount. I don't think suggested tip calculations on bill receipt helps anyone.

Nkedel.. Makes sense and I didn't tip the crew the admissions price based on the meal method amount. Seems a bit much as a lot of the fees paid goes into capitalized costs of the boat and operations of the company and equipment. So in my mind I saw what the meal was worth and service received throughout the tour and I tipped on that.

In some limited cases it does.

I have seen some restaurants calculate 15%, 18%, and 20% of the pre-tax total and print those at the bottom of the reciept; since these are the most common percentages that people in the US use for calculating tips, having the numbers there, already calculated, makes it simple for folks like me who, despite what I like to flatter myself is a fairly normal intellectual capacity in most respects, have trouble doing simple mathmatics in our heads. I've used them myself a few times, and seen other folks among my family and coworkers use them, as well.

So long as these calculated percentages are accurate, I have no objection to them being printed on the bottom of the reciept, especially if multiple commonly used percentaged are calculated, allowing the diner the option of quickly selecting one that they feel is appropriate to the level of service they received, or manually calculating their own if they so choose.

Must be a pilot.

I ran across this over on Foxnews.com and immediately thought about this thread. If the restaurant owner's claims are accurate and it can be replicated, I think it would be beneficial long term.

That's not abolishing tipping, that's setting a mandatory tip.

(Or service charge, or whatever you want to call it.)

Abolishing tipping would be if he raised the price of each thing on the menu by 18%.

Eh, there are mandatory service charges in a lot of countries that don't "require tips."

By US standards, it is bordering on false advertising, unless it's very well marked.

Unless it's voluntary, it's also probably subject to sales tax as a service charge rather than a gratuity. I wonder whether the owner is correctly charging tax on it.

Exactly. I don't how one can say that they serve no useful function; they are a calculation.

What type of places were these? I can only imagine the most ticky tacky tourist places where locals do not visit, and those geared mainly towards Americans such as Hard Rock Cafe, etc perhaps pressuring people to tip outside the norm. I've never experienced that in Europe and the UK. (On the flip side, I've seen people from the UK being pressured to tip by American servers who assume that that due to their accent they don't understand US tipping norms, which I think is incredibly rude)

As to a guidebook, they exist. However, many are as useless at the FT thread on tipping. It was woefully incorrect, and even with the recent addition of the wiki, much of the information is not accurate. And that doesn't address the people (mostly North Americans) who simply refuse to abide by norms and insist on tipping in an inappropriate fashion. I'm embarrassed for those people; they apparently know the norms, but believe that their way of doing things is superior, and even when the tip is politely declined insist, often physically shoving at the recipient.