To the NW People..We like you But
Sep 10, 2009, 7:04 pm
#31
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 238
Employee Point of View
As an employee...orig NW and Now DL...I feel the brunt of all of the anger from both sides every day when you guys call us....We are not any happier with all the changes either...I get the feeling that no matter what way things change, We will never please anyone....Unfortunately, I think the higher ups get this too....I have watched alot of the back and forth here, and some of it is very entertaining....Everyone has an opinion, myself included....If I could make 1 suggestion, it would be this... And it goes for me as well...I think everyone should sit back, let this thing play out and see where we stand in 1st qtr 2010.....By then, the cutover will be done, everyone will be on a single op platform, and then if you still feel you got the shaft...Let them know!
Sep 10, 2009, 7:04 pm
#32
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EP, AA AC
Posts: 4,268
Oh and one other thing gang much more serious, I actually find this debate even as nasty as it is amusing. I don't need to remind everyone that today is 9-10-09 and you know what tomorrow is 
The fact that we can be so worked up about the relative merits of an airline and/or an FFP speak volumes as to where we were and how far we have come.
Be Well FT'ers!
GT
The fact that we can be so worked up about the relative merits of an airline and/or an FFP speak volumes as to where we were and how far we have come.Be Well FT'ers!
GT
Sep 10, 2009, 7:05 pm
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: Formaldehyde Medallion DL DieMiles
Posts: 12,646
Since you mentioned it....here is a sweet little thread from way back in 2003 - back when we WorldPerks sheep were grazing quietly in our pastures with only an occasional contented "BAA" emerging. (I started the thread, so I may be biased.)
It may bring a tear to your eye as you remember the good old days...
IS THERE VALIUM IN THE WATER HERE?
It may bring a tear to your eye as you remember the good old days...
IS THERE VALIUM IN THE WATER HERE?
I like this first one, since it includes (5 years ago) the warning that FT might lose credibility with DL if the amount of complaining in posts isn't reduced. Quote: "This thread provides a good explanation as to why DL management ignores this board and the people on it. " How many times have we seen that assertion posted in the last 6 months?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...?highlight=SSM
I like this second one, since it includes (5 years ago) the sarcastic use of "enhancements" (complete with the quotation marks). Quote: "The latest "enhancements" are too little, too late."
Looks like the recent suggestion to ban the use of "enhancements" was five years too late.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...?highlight=SSM
If you don't study history, you are bound to repeat it.
Will I get accused of "thinking too much" again?
Sep 10, 2009, 7:13 pm
#34
Join Date: Nov 2004
Programs: D E L T A Diamond, AA EXP, Marriott Lifetime Titanium Elite
Posts: 211
I just don't get it. Rather than gripe about how bad it is, why not just leave and go fly the "better" one? If all these negative words turned into action you could be top tier at the "better" airline by the end of the year.
Sep 10, 2009, 7:19 pm
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: check swarm
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, SPG/Bonvoid LT Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, $tarbucks Titanium
Posts: 14,404
I think the major point is this.
NW frequent flyer program > DL FFP
NW elite handling > DL elite handling
NW IFE < DL IFE
NW crew < DL crew
NW planes on average < DL planes on average
The overall outcome:
NW + DL = average results of the programs. no best in class changes.
NW's domestic planes are an industry leader... in sucking. But they seem to forget that. NW's FFP was an industry leader... in quality. It's getting downgraded.
LOTS of members on both sides were expecting the best of both programs and airlines but it seems some areas the best was discarded FFP - (whether it be for tech or other issues).
NW frequent flyer program > DL FFP
NW elite handling > DL elite handling
NW IFE < DL IFE
NW crew < DL crew
NW planes on average < DL planes on average
The overall outcome:
NW + DL = average results of the programs. no best in class changes.
NW's domestic planes are an industry leader... in sucking. But they seem to forget that. NW's FFP was an industry leader... in quality. It's getting downgraded.
LOTS of members on both sides were expecting the best of both programs and airlines but it seems some areas the best was discarded FFP - (whether it be for tech or other issues).
NW web & mobile technology > DL web & mobile
NW WorldClubs > DL SkyClubs
NW Scoop > RealDLInsider or SkyMilesInsider
If the changes remained the same, but DL had engaged, did some outreach, better communication, even forewarned NW elites about the coming changes, there would be a lot less moaning. Basic communication & hearing customers out goes a long way. The intergration is not over yet, but Jeff has already failed big time in that area.
Sep 10, 2009, 7:21 pm
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: check swarm
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, SPG/Bonvoid LT Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, $tarbucks Titanium
Posts: 14,404
I hope everyone here understands that I am not complaining about anyone in particular. All is I am asking, is that, prior to posting, people ask if their post contributes to a better DL. If it doesn't, why post? Slam all you want, but it doesn't help DL become better if you don't follow it up with a written (not email) to DL.
Sep 10, 2009, 7:25 pm
#37
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DCA
Posts: 3,395
Argh... people trying to restrict debate have always been one of my pet peeves. Flyertalk is an open forum with a handful of simple rules to follow enacted by the board to maintain order, as such, people have the right to say whatever they want assuming it does not violate the terms of service.
Sep 10, 2009, 7:27 pm
#38
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Verdi, NV, SFO & Olympic (aka Squaw )Valley.
Programs: Ikon Pass Full + AS Gold + Marriott Titanium + Hilton Gold. Recovering UA Plat. LT lounge AA+DL+UA
Posts: 3,823
As a CO-loyalist who earned most of his miles on NW but will be ex-communicated next month:
NW=better FFP
DL=better airline
CO= better airline than DL and almost as good FFP as NW
My only problem is that I will hit lifetime Plat on AA well before I next earn status on DL or CO. So sad.
I rate the airlines:
VA>WN (even though I love 'em)>CO>AS>DL>B6>AA>UA>F9>US
BTW, I'm a lifetime member of the lounge programs of CO, DL and AA which does bias my opinions.
NW=better FFP
DL=better airline
CO= better airline than DL and almost as good FFP as NW
My only problem is that I will hit lifetime Plat on AA well before I next earn status on DL or CO. So sad.
I rate the airlines:
VA>WN (even though I love 'em)>CO>AS>DL>B6>AA>UA>F9>US
BTW, I'm a lifetime member of the lounge programs of CO, DL and AA which does bias my opinions.
Sep 10, 2009, 8:45 pm
#39
Join Date: May 2005
Location: FLL
Programs: DL ♦M MM|HH♦|Marr Slvr|CO UA AA US|Pri Cub Plat|SPG|Avis 1st|Htz 5*
Posts: 5,044
Thanks waltinsocal we like you too...what we dont like is the fact that midyear we're loosing benefits...we were promised "best of both/best in class" by Richard and Ed...unfortunately a reduction in benefits in most a reasonable persons view isn't "best of both/best in class" but these are subjective terms so I guess we really can't say we were lied too but in generations past after a good F***ing people usually were offered a cig, DL only offered us 5,000 miles...bad form on their part 
(as I recall you DL folks here on FT took out an advertisement some years ago to save your SkyMiles program...how are our comments any different? Your aren't suggesting the protests of the FT'ers back then is somehow different are you?)
(as I recall you DL folks here on FT took out an advertisement some years ago to save your SkyMiles program...how are our comments any different? Your aren't suggesting the protests of the FT'ers back then is somehow different are you?)"Best" is subjective and applies to POV. Of course we as customers wanted DL to cherry pick the things from both programs that favored the customer. An outsider with no bias as a flyer or airline employee might indeed deem the new SM program the "best".... best for both the customer AND the company.
My definition of best is $99 R/T coast-to-coast in FC with steak and lobster. Add to that two free R/T TATL in BE. But that would hardly be best for Delta.
What amazes me is how much FTers have latched on to the words "best in class". Ever stayed at a Best Western? or tasted Best Brands mayo? Are they both "the best"? I can't see getting worked up over this phrase when there are many more wildly misleading advertising practices going on at all airlines (phantom fares, "directs" with a stopover and change of equipment
, "we're the biggest", etc). Another surprise is the number of folks here that criticize the legacy business model and then go apesh!t when a legacy changes that model.
And for the record. DL lets me choose my seat when I book. I have a BE TATL multi-city itin over the new year. On the DL segs I selected my seat, on the CO segments I was able to go to continental.com and select my seat, but on the NW and KLM portions I have to wait until 90 days out. If we have to hear about all the negatives (repeatedly) I want at least one positive to be spoken.
Sep 10, 2009, 8:52 pm
#40
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hopefully on a plane...
Posts: 6,580
I would disagree about the WC's. The food may have been a bit better but I prefer the mixed drinks AND the computers. Often leave my computer behind but I was hopeful to meet new DL/NW Scoop....
Sep 10, 2009, 9:04 pm
#41
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,677
Walt did you learn your lesson today?
Sep 10, 2009, 9:08 pm
#42
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
Programs: DL PM, HH Diamond, Fairmont Prem, SPG Gold, Priority Club Plat/IC Amb, AmEx Plat
Posts: 10,839
Excellent summary, to which I'll add:
NW web & mobile technology > DL web & mobile
NW WorldClubs > DL SkyClubs
NW Scoop > RealDLInsider or SkyMilesInsider
If the changes remained the same, but DL had engaged, did some outreach, better communication, even forewarned NW elites about the coming changes, there would be a lot less moaning. Basic communication & hearing customers out goes a long way. The intergration is not over yet, but Jeff has already failed big time in that area.
NW web & mobile technology > DL web & mobile
NW WorldClubs > DL SkyClubs
NW Scoop > RealDLInsider or SkyMilesInsider
If the changes remained the same, but DL had engaged, did some outreach, better communication, even forewarned NW elites about the coming changes, there would be a lot less moaning. Basic communication & hearing customers out goes a long way. The intergration is not over yet, but Jeff has already failed big time in that area.
Sep 10, 2009, 9:13 pm
#43
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,866
I have regularly slept with all the majors, except for only 3 flights on UA since 1969. I watch the DL, NW, CO and US boards as I have miles on all and will switch if my upgrade chances improve by switching, unless the service is real bad like it was on US.
NW provided the best use of my CO and NW miles. But we are suck with DL.
I think it is OK to complain and whine, but if you have a real concern write a letter to DL and/or file a complaint for each problem that arises with the US Department of Transportation. A goal of FlyerTalk should be a medium to exchange information and improve airline service.
Just try to keep a civil tone as we are all in this together whether we like it or not.
I like to complain about all my "partners" former and current.
NW provided the best use of my CO and NW miles. But we are suck with DL.
I think it is OK to complain and whine, but if you have a real concern write a letter to DL and/or file a complaint for each problem that arises with the US Department of Transportation. A goal of FlyerTalk should be a medium to exchange information and improve airline service.
Just try to keep a civil tone as we are all in this together whether we like it or not.
I like to complain about all my "partners" former and current.
Last edited by BF263533; Sep 10, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Sep 10, 2009, 9:23 pm
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: check swarm
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, SPG/Bonvoid LT Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, $tarbucks Titanium
Posts: 14,404
Sep 10, 2009, 9:25 pm
#45
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DFW
Programs: Marriott Life Titanium, Hilton Diamond, United Silver, DL, IHG Plat, etc.
Posts: 2,888
I can only guess here because I have a feeling that I may have lost my objectivity in all this. Heck I know I lack objectivity. So with that in mind I'd like to ask what it looks like from the 'other side'.
Have DL FF's lost much in the wake of the merger and/or the various 'revisions' that have occurred in the DL program?
I'm guessing the loss experienced by a DL FF is little to none by comparison with what a NW FF has percieved.
Even so I'm continually baffled by the acceptance of the way things are in the DL FF community. You guys are the legends who organized SOS and scored a huge retreat a few years ago when DL's benefit cuts went way too far. Even then you didn't get it all back but your victory was remarkable. Still I'm baffled - when DL promised a 'best in class' and delivered what it did -where did the spirit of SOS go?
Have DL FF's lost much in the wake of the merger and/or the various 'revisions' that have occurred in the DL program?
I'm guessing the loss experienced by a DL FF is little to none by comparison with what a NW FF has percieved.
Even so I'm continually baffled by the acceptance of the way things are in the DL FF community. You guys are the legends who organized SOS and scored a huge retreat a few years ago when DL's benefit cuts went way too far. Even then you didn't get it all back but your victory was remarkable. Still I'm baffled - when DL promised a 'best in class' and delivered what it did -where did the spirit of SOS go?
Last edited by pmaddock; Sep 10, 2009 at 9:42 pm