waltinsocal

No one has answered the question.

Blank Sheet

Been answered many times, you just haven't taken the time to read the threads. DL has and will lose revenue from many former NWA elites who have/will switch. Good luck with conscience enforcement in what should still be a free medium.

thepointsguy

I think you are missing the point of their anger. The huge discontent with NW flyers is not the actual DL metal- its the FF program. They had a great one and now they have Skymiles, which is not as good, pretty much on all counts. On top of that, the way in which they were communicated to has been shoddy at best. I'd be pissed too. Telling people to not post or to fly other airlines is not in the spirit of FT IMO.

WBurcham

Please remember, rational discussion has yet to get us anywhere..... The more inflammatory you can make a post the more likely people are to respond, right?

WBurcham

I think the major point is this.

NW frequent flyer program > DL FFP
NW elite handling > DL elite handling

NW IFE < DL IFE
NW crew < DL crew
NW planes on average < DL planes on average

The overall outcome:
NW + DL = average results of the programs. no best in class changes.

NW's domestic planes are an industry leader... in sucking. But they seem to forget that. NW's FFP was an industry leader... in quality. It's getting downgraded.

LOTS of members on both sides were expecting the best of both programs and airlines but it seems some areas the best was discarded FFP - (whether it be for tech or other issues).

Sadly though, people prefer to ..... and moan far more than they prefer to praise the cahanges.

nwacked

I'm supposed to eventually start posting in this forum?!?

WBurcham

Unfortunately those before you have gotten the welcome mat quite dirty... now it's more like the "go away" mat. Hopefully civility can start to win out....

nwacked

>>>>>Unfortunately those before you have gotten the welcome mat quite dirty... now it's more like the "go away" mat. Hopefully civility can start to win out....


Okay. I'll go away.

WBurcham

Please stay.... it was meant as a tongue in cheek thought.

Generally, this board has been very welcoming (even to those with different viewpoints and new people). Just going through a rough patch.

socrates

Thanks waltinsocal we like you too...what we dont like is the fact that midyear we're loosing benefits...we were promised "best of both/best in class" by Richard and Ed...unfortunately a reduction in benefits in most a reasonable persons view isn't "best of both/best in class" but these are subjective terms so I guess we really can't say we were lied too but in generations past after a good F***ing people usually were offered a cig, DL only offered us 5,000 miles...bad form on their part (as I recall you DL folks here on FT took out an advertisement some years ago to save your SkyMiles program...how are our comments any different? Your aren't suggesting the protests of the FT'ers back then is somehow different are you?)

I can assure you the DL mod have always been more active than their counterparts in the NW forums (hey we never had a "mods guilty of..." thread)

While the individual items can be debated I think you're more right than wrong and your conclusion is spot on....we all were promised best in class, what we're getting is "easiest to impliment"

anotherATLelite

I have to agree. I have no experience of the NW FFP or Elite handling, but on the few times this spring/early-summer I was stuck on NW metal when DL started flying the NW A320s on the ATL-LGW route, my flight experience was considerably worse than on DL metal, even when that DL metal was an old 747 with no AVOD. Shabbier 'planes, worse food (in coach and IBE), and definitely crew who seemed not too happy to be in the job.

And in my experience DL's FFP isn't so bad! I've had some decent op-ups TATL as a plat, been able to use my miles or upgrade certs to book into Z relatively easily, and have almost always been comp'd drinks coupons at check-in at ATL if flying TATL in coach. And the crew is always knowledgeable, efficient, and delightful.

So please let's give credit where credit is due, to DL as the superior airline in terms of the airline product, not moan about these supposed losses in the FFP.

redtailshark

Really? But in post #1 of this thread that you started, you offer the partial ID of an FT member as one of the "problem people." It doesn't seem reasonable to make other FT members the subject of posts in that way. And the phrasing "..welcome, but..." reminds me of "...separate but equal..." Does this mean that some DL forum members complaints are legitimate, and others aren't? Some should be silenced?

I don't agree. I really don't want to live in a society like that. Free speech means...free speech. Especially when you don't agree with the content or mode of that speech.

I refuse to personalize this with DL members. I don't and won't call on your opinions to be silenced, or moderated, or controlled, simply because you had a great DL flight or think SM is better than OP, or WP, or FB. And I've had great DL flights, too, from time to time.

And I agree completely with your key phrase "contribute to a better DL."

That's precisely what I'm doing when I call out, for example:

hypocrisy with respect to the loudly-touted "best in class" program.
worst in class performance from DL.COM and SM, in various respects.
features that other programs offer that SM doesn't.
official communications from major airlines about their FFP that set a different tone and are received differently by the members etc.

I also agree that simply moaning won't accomplish much.

I point to the hard evidence regarding, for instance, several award redemptions that I've wanted to make recently, including quantitative data researched from the respective airline's websites. If those who would contest my findings would provide similar hard data on how those redemptions are less expensive on DL than others, that'd be great.

As for contacting DL/NW, you may not be aware of this but - for example - I posted a five page open letter to Mr. Anderson on my concerns as an NW WP member during transition, here, and I sent it to DL HQ. I inform DL and other airlines of what shortcomings, and above the call of duty service, I experience with them using formal channels. Others that I know have done similar. Because these representations are not visible to DL members, or that DL members haven't found them, doesn't mean that they haven't been made.

As others have said many times, DL's own members have shown they can rise up in revolt when conditions are poor, e.g. SSM and so on. NW had nothing to do with that. It's disingenuous to say or infer that DL people haven't contested issues strongly with SM management before disaffected NW elites appeared here.

On point, to be constructive, it's incontestable that a better award booking tool would benefits us all. And rescission of the hated IOS would benefit some of us - maybe not all, but it doesn't hurt those who don't make use of it. So why do members accept those things the way they are? Acquiescing gives SM management the green light for their depradations, which are not best in class.

muntz73

Sounds like we all would be happier if NW just liquidated. There would be no discussion on which FFP was better because WP would be WORTHLESS. All of us loyal DL folks would be competing with less Medallions for upgrades.

I view this entire thing like a football game and a sore loser. Someone in the deal had to lose. It was NWA. I think DL did a lot more than they had to do to satisfy passengers and employees from a PR move. Now, the losing team is mad and they are going to bad mouth every single thing the winning team did.

NWA patrons - don't forget that a very large % of DL's new management team came from NWA.

avidflyer

Unfortunately NW has a very large % of high mileage flyers because of the NW Orient connection and reputation in Asia. It would be better for you if we all just went away in terms of upgrades for sure. There are quite a few NW Diamonds now....

Do you hear what you are saying? There is no more NW. WE are all DL. YOU may not like that some of your DL brethren are not as happy as you but half the problem is the Us/Them crap I read. The only Us/Them is: US = the customer paying money to a company for a service Them = The folks making money from US by providing a service. If the folks on this board, and indeed the Mods themselves, do not get that DL does not pay for this forum then we have lost sight of why it is here. It is here to discuss the good and (god forbid) the bad not to protect a VERY large and capable company from individuals who want to find a place to applaud (I have done this several times) and bash (Done that as well) based on REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES that nobody here has the right to minimize. If you don't like the thread WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU KEEP IT ROLLING WITH YOUR OWN POSTS? I think the reason is simple: You know that the thread will keep rolling without you if it has merit and for some, VERY odd reason, you feel like you owe it to DL to "protect" them from posters on a PUBLIC message board.

I have probably sat next to you in my 50 or so DL domestic flights this year and I am guessing you can't tell the difference between DL and NW customers. I know DL CAN tell and surprisingly they are calling me "sir" and giving me all kinds of free stuff to stay so you may want to ask your DL if they want you telling NW customers to beat it.

GTITAN

You know when I get called "sir" on flights it is normally followed by "You're making a scene". Go figure ..... Seriously, Y"all where's the love? Group SM-NW Hug and please leave all daggers at security!^

Safe Travels!