Merger experience - flying NWA first time on Delta codeshare
Apr 25, 2009, 8:03 am
#46
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NWA front line workers are union. The pissy attitude is part of the deal.
Apr 25, 2009, 12:54 pm
#47
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I find it also pretty interesting that the vast majority of onboard complaints seem to involve the DL-operated-by-NW flights. Is this something for which DL should be blamed, or is this something that indicates laziness and a refusal to change on the part of the native NW crews?
If a NW crew member "refuses" to welcome people to the "New Delta" (or whatever they're supposed to say), or insists on executing the NW style of service (i.e. no pdb, no water, no hot towels, etc), he/she has no business being there. They should stop whining. They are lucky to have a job.
If a NW crew member "refuses" to welcome people to the "New Delta" (or whatever they're supposed to say), or insists on executing the NW style of service (i.e. no pdb, no water, no hot towels, etc), he/she has no business being there. They should stop whining. They are lucky to have a job.
The difference in service is simply confusing to customers, which is the bottom line here. That's why it needs to be fixed. It seems March 30 was the date for the uniform switch and an optional implentation of inflight changes.
Apr 25, 2009, 5:24 pm
#48
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,884
You can really only deny that if you're looking through a pair of widget-shaped glasses.
I find it also pretty interesting that the vast majority of onboard complaints seem to involve the DL-operated-by-NW flights. Is this something for which DL should be blamed, or is this something that indicates laziness and a refusal to change on the part of the native NW crews?
If a NW crew member "refuses" to welcome people to the "New Delta" (or whatever they're supposed to say), or insists on executing the NW style of service (i.e. no pdb, no water, no hot towels, etc), he/she has no business being there. They should stop whining. They are lucky to have a job.
Apparently part of the deal with customers, too.
Apr 26, 2009, 6:14 am
#49
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And if they dont have time or desire to offer preflight beverages, the gate agent should be notified so that pax can be told before boarding (this is the standard for this service irregularity).
Every tiny difference in service normality is noted by the customer (who doesnt care about the merger excuse). I would think DL/NW would hate to lose even ONE customer who is paying full fare because they notice a confusion or irregularity in service delivery. And in routes where schedule is the same, service delivery becomes the defining factor for premium fare pax.
Apr 26, 2009, 7:03 am
#50
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 334
The integreation of NW flight attendants and NW metal in DL operations, not to dismiss the pro-union rant and rhetoric of the NW flight attendants, is (in my opinion) bad.
I think the integrated route structure is good (although I have no interest in visiting DET or MSP), and I suspect there are other elements of NW that are good too.
We flew last week on what was ticketed as a DL flight, and learned after ticketing that the flight would be hijakacked by NW metal and crew. The aircraft were worn and dirty (more so than any DL equipment I have ever flown on), and the flight attendants bode a mix of US Postal Service, Internal Revenue Service and JFK Lost and Found customer service skills.
Let's hope DL gets their arms around this quickly. My first priority would be to implode the NW flight attendant's union. From personal experience, we took the past year at my place of employment to weed out the bad apples, and in doing so, restored the original pro-customer, non-tainted culture of the company to the one that it once enjoyed (before the accumulation of dead wood and bad apples).
Could DL's new (NW) leadership have made promises to the NW flight attendants that their Union would be safe and sustained at DL, in an attempt to make the deal happen?
Let's hope good things for the future of Delta and Delta people.
I think the integrated route structure is good (although I have no interest in visiting DET or MSP), and I suspect there are other elements of NW that are good too.
We flew last week on what was ticketed as a DL flight, and learned after ticketing that the flight would be hijakacked by NW metal and crew. The aircraft were worn and dirty (more so than any DL equipment I have ever flown on), and the flight attendants bode a mix of US Postal Service, Internal Revenue Service and JFK Lost and Found customer service skills.
Let's hope DL gets their arms around this quickly. My first priority would be to implode the NW flight attendant's union. From personal experience, we took the past year at my place of employment to weed out the bad apples, and in doing so, restored the original pro-customer, non-tainted culture of the company to the one that it once enjoyed (before the accumulation of dead wood and bad apples).
Could DL's new (NW) leadership have made promises to the NW flight attendants that their Union would be safe and sustained at DL, in an attempt to make the deal happen?
Let's hope good things for the future of Delta and Delta people.
Apr 26, 2009, 7:10 am
#51
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,884
Youre exactly right, and thanks for a fair and balanced response. I do think, however, that it is NW crew's responsibility to apologize to the customer and say, Im sorry, we cant offer a bottle of water at seat upon arrival and hot towels in the air to guarantee consistency.
And if they dont have time or desire to offer preflight beverages, the gate agent should be notified so that pax can be told before boarding (this is the standard for this service irregularity).
Every tiny difference in service normality is noted by the customer (who doesnt care about the merger excuse). I would think DL/NW would hate to lose even ONE customer who is paying full fare because they notice a confusion or irregularity in service delivery. And in routes where schedule is the same, service delivery becomes the defining factor for premium fare pax.
And if they dont have time or desire to offer preflight beverages, the gate agent should be notified so that pax can be told before boarding (this is the standard for this service irregularity).
Every tiny difference in service normality is noted by the customer (who doesnt care about the merger excuse). I would think DL/NW would hate to lose even ONE customer who is paying full fare because they notice a confusion or irregularity in service delivery. And in routes where schedule is the same, service delivery becomes the defining factor for premium fare pax.
As for "losing even ONE customer", I think those concerns by top management were tossed out the window with the revamped SkyMiles program and surgical dismantling of the WorldPerks program. But that's just me.
The rest of the post...so off-base that it's not worth responding to, sorry.
Apr 26, 2009, 7:45 am
#52
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SchmutzigMSP has fairly well hit the nail on the head.
I really do not understand the Delta loyalist's complaints about service that is NW tinged. If you actually do fly a lot, you have become familiar with the cultures of all of the companies and when you board equipment that is NW originated, you should be prepared for the NW experience. It is clear one of these posters is a relatively novice flyer when he/she complains that "the flight would be hijakacked by NW metal and crew." The regulars around here know exactly what they are buying when they press the button and exactly how they are going to handle each element of their trip, right down to what they are going to do in the case of IRROPS. To be surprised and state that there has been a "highjacking" is the kind of statement that belongs on Trip Advisor rather than on FlyerTalk.
I have never found the NW experience to be unpleasant and in more than thirty years of business flying and hundreds of NW flights I have always found the NW crews to be accommodating and pleasant (except for the occasional grump who is having personal problems and whom you can find on any airline). Nevertheless, I do prefer the Delta service as can be witnessed by my current procedure of selecting the PBI-LGA flights which still use our beloved Mad Dogs instead of the quite comfortable NW 319s which have been put on the FLL service. And I certainly am not one who would be happy with my industry adopting a union labor mentality.
You cannot expect a culture to change overnight and it will be a matter of time before the NW crews are truly familiar with the DL routines. A bit of patience is required and some further investigation as to what you are buying if you actually will be in bad spirits when you do not get the full "Delta Experience."
I really do not understand the Delta loyalist's complaints about service that is NW tinged. If you actually do fly a lot, you have become familiar with the cultures of all of the companies and when you board equipment that is NW originated, you should be prepared for the NW experience. It is clear one of these posters is a relatively novice flyer when he/she complains that "the flight would be hijakacked by NW metal and crew." The regulars around here know exactly what they are buying when they press the button and exactly how they are going to handle each element of their trip, right down to what they are going to do in the case of IRROPS. To be surprised and state that there has been a "highjacking" is the kind of statement that belongs on Trip Advisor rather than on FlyerTalk.
I have never found the NW experience to be unpleasant and in more than thirty years of business flying and hundreds of NW flights I have always found the NW crews to be accommodating and pleasant (except for the occasional grump who is having personal problems and whom you can find on any airline). Nevertheless, I do prefer the Delta service as can be witnessed by my current procedure of selecting the PBI-LGA flights which still use our beloved Mad Dogs instead of the quite comfortable NW 319s which have been put on the FLL service. And I certainly am not one who would be happy with my industry adopting a union labor mentality.
You cannot expect a culture to change overnight and it will be a matter of time before the NW crews are truly familiar with the DL routines. A bit of patience is required and some further investigation as to what you are buying if you actually will be in bad spirits when you do not get the full "Delta Experience."
Apr 26, 2009, 11:29 am
#53
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It must just be me, but the little bottle of water thing at the the seat can be a real pain. I watch them get knocked over, roll around the cabin, stuffed three deep in the back of seat pockets---just about everything but drunk. If you do not want a bottle of water what are you to do?
I recently asked a DL FA for ice water. She told me I had a bottle of water. I replyed, yes, but there is no ice. She went to the front, brought back the ice and said I was getting special treatment. Special Treatment? Ice water?
I had to pour the water from the bottle. Now I had a big glass, a bottle of water and another bottle stuck inside the seat in front (left over from the previous flight?) My seat mate in 2A acted anoyed as I jockeyed all this around the seat trying to keep any of it from falling over on him.
I for one vote to scrap the bottles of water. They just get in my way. And, from what I observed, many people do not drink them. Are they passed out again--or tossed?
I recently asked a DL FA for ice water. She told me I had a bottle of water. I replyed, yes, but there is no ice. She went to the front, brought back the ice and said I was getting special treatment. Special Treatment? Ice water?
I had to pour the water from the bottle. Now I had a big glass, a bottle of water and another bottle stuck inside the seat in front (left over from the previous flight?) My seat mate in 2A acted anoyed as I jockeyed all this around the seat trying to keep any of it from falling over on him.
I for one vote to scrap the bottles of water. They just get in my way. And, from what I observed, many people do not drink them. Are they passed out again--or tossed?
Apr 26, 2009, 1:55 pm
#54
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The integreation of NW flight attendants and NW metal in DL operations, not to dismiss the pro-union rant and rhetoric of the NW flight attendants, is (in my opinion) bad.
I think the integrated route structure is good (although I have no interest in visiting DET or MSP), and I suspect there are other elements of NW that are good too.
We flew last week on what was ticketed as a DL flight, and learned after ticketing that the flight would be hijakacked by NW metal and crew. The aircraft were worn and dirty (more so than any DL equipment I have ever flown on), and the flight attendants bode a mix of US Postal Service, Internal Revenue Service and JFK Lost and Found customer service skills.
Let's hope DL gets their arms around this quickly. My first priority would be to implode the NW flight attendant's union. From personal experience, we took the past year at my place of employment to weed out the bad apples, and in doing so, restored the original pro-customer, non-tainted culture of the company to the one that it once enjoyed (before the accumulation of dead wood and bad apples).
Could DL's new (NW) leadership have made promises to the NW flight attendants that their Union would be safe and sustained at DL, in an attempt to make the deal happen?
Let's hope good things for the future of Delta and Delta people.
I think the integrated route structure is good (although I have no interest in visiting DET or MSP), and I suspect there are other elements of NW that are good too.
We flew last week on what was ticketed as a DL flight, and learned after ticketing that the flight would be hijakacked by NW metal and crew. The aircraft were worn and dirty (more so than any DL equipment I have ever flown on), and the flight attendants bode a mix of US Postal Service, Internal Revenue Service and JFK Lost and Found customer service skills.
Let's hope DL gets their arms around this quickly. My first priority would be to implode the NW flight attendant's union. From personal experience, we took the past year at my place of employment to weed out the bad apples, and in doing so, restored the original pro-customer, non-tainted culture of the company to the one that it once enjoyed (before the accumulation of dead wood and bad apples).
Could DL's new (NW) leadership have made promises to the NW flight attendants that their Union would be safe and sustained at DL, in an attempt to make the deal happen?
Let's hope good things for the future of Delta and Delta people.
Apr 26, 2009, 4:41 pm
#55
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Recent NWA experiences
I flew NWA LAX-LAS RT last weekend and LAX-TPA on my way to New Orleans Tuesday. On all three flights I was disappointed in NWA crew and metal. I now planes can dirty easily, but the NWA planes seemed especially grimy and fabric on seats in first was definitely worn and tearing. On one flight the FA couldn't get the first class bathroom cabinets to close.
I expected the FAs to be jazzed about the new in flight offerings and honestly thought the new uniforms would put them in a good mood, but I was wrong on all three flights. No pre departure drinks and no one muttered a "hello" or "welcome aboard" on any of the flights. I ordered a mojito on the LAX-LAS leg and literally had to repeat myself four times to the FA who then replied, "Oh that's the Delta drink, right? I don't know what that is. No one has ever ordered one. I'll have to get some help." I watched her remake the drink twice before finally calling the FA from the back to help her.
On my redeye LAX-TPA leg I was in 1C and the FA kept the main light at the front of the plane on the entire flight, making it impossible to sleep. She also held court with the other FAs in the galley by my seat and their chatter woke up the woman next to me. The crew complained about the merger several times and the FA reading the safety instructions told her coworker that she didn't like the Delta language and wasn't going to read all of it. She then fumbled through the few pieces she did read. I did note that her announcements only mentioned DL once and she even told passengers to sign up for WorldPerks miles and to book future flights at nwa.com.
Two other quick notes: I was happy to see Twix and fresh fruit offered during the first class snack service, but am still annoyed that I keep having to exit some terminals and go through security twice when flying DL codeshares operated by NWA and connecting to another DL flight.
I expected the FAs to be jazzed about the new in flight offerings and honestly thought the new uniforms would put them in a good mood, but I was wrong on all three flights. No pre departure drinks and no one muttered a "hello" or "welcome aboard" on any of the flights. I ordered a mojito on the LAX-LAS leg and literally had to repeat myself four times to the FA who then replied, "Oh that's the Delta drink, right? I don't know what that is. No one has ever ordered one. I'll have to get some help." I watched her remake the drink twice before finally calling the FA from the back to help her.
On my redeye LAX-TPA leg I was in 1C and the FA kept the main light at the front of the plane on the entire flight, making it impossible to sleep. She also held court with the other FAs in the galley by my seat and their chatter woke up the woman next to me. The crew complained about the merger several times and the FA reading the safety instructions told her coworker that she didn't like the Delta language and wasn't going to read all of it. She then fumbled through the few pieces she did read. I did note that her announcements only mentioned DL once and she even told passengers to sign up for WorldPerks miles and to book future flights at nwa.com.
Two other quick notes: I was happy to see Twix and fresh fruit offered during the first class snack service, but am still annoyed that I keep having to exit some terminals and go through security twice when flying DL codeshares operated by NWA and connecting to another DL flight.
Apr 26, 2009, 8:08 pm
#56
Join Date: Mar 2006
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This past week I flew SAN-MSP-DFW-MSP-SAN, all on NW metal or Mesaba all in F. A few comments:
1) The A320s seems very VERY tired, dirty, and the overhead bins looked like they came from a greyhound bus. Needs a major refurb.
2) I really miss the GIDS at each gate.
3) I was surprised to get a cold breakfast on the DFW-MSP leg, which was a CRJ900.
4) It was nice to see fruit in the snack basket, although I liked the DL snack basket more.
5) Serving meals from a cart didn't really sit well with me, as I think it cheapens the experience.
6) FAs seemed OK, didn't sense any attitude but neither were they overly warm or friendly. Hit and miss on DL too, sometimes.
7) Really missed the IFE, but had my laptop with several ripped DVDs so I kept myself entertained.
8) MSP is very confusing and poorly laid out. Give me ATL any day!
9) At MSP they had a luggage elevator part way down the jetway to drop off large bags for CRJs. Very nice, so you didn't have to stand by an open door and freeze while waiting to get your bags.
10) On both A320s my FC tray had a severe list to one side and made working on my laptop harder than it needed to be.
11) No seat power in FC.
Overall it was an OK experience, but I missed the DL FAs and better equipment.
1) The A320s seems very VERY tired, dirty, and the overhead bins looked like they came from a greyhound bus. Needs a major refurb.
2) I really miss the GIDS at each gate.
3) I was surprised to get a cold breakfast on the DFW-MSP leg, which was a CRJ900.
4) It was nice to see fruit in the snack basket, although I liked the DL snack basket more.
5) Serving meals from a cart didn't really sit well with me, as I think it cheapens the experience.
6) FAs seemed OK, didn't sense any attitude but neither were they overly warm or friendly. Hit and miss on DL too, sometimes.
7) Really missed the IFE, but had my laptop with several ripped DVDs so I kept myself entertained.
8) MSP is very confusing and poorly laid out. Give me ATL any day!
9) At MSP they had a luggage elevator part way down the jetway to drop off large bags for CRJs. Very nice, so you didn't have to stand by an open door and freeze while waiting to get your bags.
10) On both A320s my FC tray had a severe list to one side and made working on my laptop harder than it needed to be.
11) No seat power in FC.
Overall it was an OK experience, but I missed the DL FAs and better equipment.
Apr 27, 2009, 8:29 am
#57
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hopefully on a plane...
Posts: 6,580
SchmutzigMSP has fairly well hit the nail on the head.
I really do not understand the Delta loyalist's complaints about service that is NW tinged. If you actually do fly a lot, you have become familiar with the cultures of all of the companies and when you board equipment that is NW originated, you should be prepared for the NW experience. It is clear one of these posters is a relatively novice flyer when he/she complains that "the flight would be hijakacked by NW metal and crew." The regulars around here know exactly what they are buying when they press the button and exactly how they are going to handle each element of their trip, right down to what they are going to do in the case of IRROPS. To be surprised and state that there has been a "highjacking" is the kind of statement that belongs on Trip Advisor rather than on FlyerTalk.
I have never found the NW experience to be unpleasant and in more than thirty years of business flying and hundreds of NW flights I have always found the NW crews to be accommodating and pleasant (except for the occasional grump who is having personal problems and whom you can find on any airline). Nevertheless, I do prefer the Delta service as can be witnessed by my current procedure of selecting the PBI-LGA flights which still use our beloved Mad Dogs instead of the quite comfortable NW 319s which have been put on the FLL service. And I certainly am not one who would be happy with my industry adopting a union labor mentality.
You cannot expect a culture to change overnight and it will be a matter of time before the NW crews are truly familiar with the DL routines. A bit of patience is required and some further investigation as to what you are buying if you actually will be in bad spirits when you do not get the full "Delta Experience."
I really do not understand the Delta loyalist's complaints about service that is NW tinged. If you actually do fly a lot, you have become familiar with the cultures of all of the companies and when you board equipment that is NW originated, you should be prepared for the NW experience. It is clear one of these posters is a relatively novice flyer when he/she complains that "the flight would be hijakacked by NW metal and crew." The regulars around here know exactly what they are buying when they press the button and exactly how they are going to handle each element of their trip, right down to what they are going to do in the case of IRROPS. To be surprised and state that there has been a "highjacking" is the kind of statement that belongs on Trip Advisor rather than on FlyerTalk.
I have never found the NW experience to be unpleasant and in more than thirty years of business flying and hundreds of NW flights I have always found the NW crews to be accommodating and pleasant (except for the occasional grump who is having personal problems and whom you can find on any airline). Nevertheless, I do prefer the Delta service as can be witnessed by my current procedure of selecting the PBI-LGA flights which still use our beloved Mad Dogs instead of the quite comfortable NW 319s which have been put on the FLL service. And I certainly am not one who would be happy with my industry adopting a union labor mentality.
You cannot expect a culture to change overnight and it will be a matter of time before the NW crews are truly familiar with the DL routines. A bit of patience is required and some further investigation as to what you are buying if you actually will be in bad spirits when you do not get the full "Delta Experience."
Thank you for the well thought out post, I would tend to agree with you that, though I prefer DL inflight service and the onboard experience, I respect what the redtail flyers got used to and understand that while changing to DL brings them some service positives, the standardization of the inflight experience also brings them some negatives (loss of hot meals on some routes). Though it's been a while since I flew NW, I also do understand why a passenger who is used to flying DL 757's would be disappointed by NW 757's. I purposefully avoid NW flights on longer trips (MCO- West Coast) because of the lack of IFE. Granted I have an iPod and magazines, I like to spend my time flying catching up on movies & tv that I don't have time to watch at home.
As for the complaints about the poor NW service, not too long ago I can remember many FT'ers and the flying populace referring to NW as "NorthWorst" with respect to the onboard experience. Many things have changed since then but the difference between the crews can be quite noticeable. Many of us are used to a sense of "Southern Hospitality" from the FA's and to be frank, IMHO most of the NW crews I have come across don't seem as personable. Then again the same could be said for some NY based DL crews.
Though there are some bad apples in each bunch (and some great ones) I think that, at the end of the day, we all need to understand that they are people with personalities, troubles and quirks just like each and every one of us.
Apr 27, 2009, 9:56 am
#58
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,884
That's not the kind of "Southern Hospitality" I look forward to on Delta. Sure, you're going to get some less than personable crews on NW and DL, but I've had great crews on NW and DL.
Regardless of what some on this forum keep trying to say, DL does not own the crown on FA attitudes. It's become trendy to pick on the NW FAs, but in my actual flying experience (with at or near 100k miles per year for the last 5 or 6 years), the NW FAs are getting a very bad rap by folks on the DL forum.
Apr 27, 2009, 12:02 pm
#59
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TPA-MKE-PHX
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I was once ordered by a DL FA to move seats because I had been seated next to a serviceman in uniform and he "deserved some extra space after the sacrifices he gave for our liberty and country" (or something worded very closely to that).
That's not the kind of "Southern Hospitality" I look forward to on Delta. Sure, you're going to get some less than personable crews on NW and DL, but I've had great crews on NW and DL.
Regardless of what some on this forum keep trying to say, DL does not own the crown on FA attitudes. It's become trendy to pick on the NW FAs, but in my actual flying experience (with at or near 100k miles per year for the last 5 or 6 years), the NW FAs are getting a very bad rap by folks on the DL forum.
That's not the kind of "Southern Hospitality" I look forward to on Delta. Sure, you're going to get some less than personable crews on NW and DL, but I've had great crews on NW and DL.
Regardless of what some on this forum keep trying to say, DL does not own the crown on FA attitudes. It's become trendy to pick on the NW FAs, but in my actual flying experience (with at or near 100k miles per year for the last 5 or 6 years), the NW FAs are getting a very bad rap by folks on the DL forum.
I am still waiting for this "southern hospitality" thing. Some are nice, so aren't. On average--in my experience--the crews are the same.
Apr 27, 2009, 1:46 pm
#60
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OMG - the above is just so funny...especially since today was my first time EVER setting foot in JFK...and here I thought the CO folks over at EWR had issues...wow....guess it's back to IAH/CLE/DTW/MSP for connections for me 
(at least until CO leaves....)
(at least until CO leaves....)