The Definitive A Fare, P Fare, D Fare and I Fare Thread
Apr 8, 2005, 6:17 pm
#106
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atlanta & San Francisco
Programs: DL 2MM DM & My Wife is a DL 3MM DM
Posts: 2,784
Originally Posted by Robert Leach
No one would knowingly, but the trouble is that it may not be presented as available, depending on the booking method used (e.g., travel agent).
The situation would be so much better/cleaner/neater if the fares were actually coded as A fares (like some to Honolulu are), e.g., A14NR or something like that, rather than the infamous QUP-variety, coach-appearing fare basis that books into A. I suspect the reason the QUP thing sticks around is that many companies forbid paid first class travel as a matter of policy, so if a travel report came back showing an A14NR fare, for example, the employee might be criticized, whereas he never will if it shows QDLUP.
The situation would be so much better/cleaner/neater if the fares were actually coded as A fares (like some to Honolulu are), e.g., A14NR or something like that, rather than the infamous QUP-variety, coach-appearing fare basis that books into A. I suspect the reason the QUP thing sticks around is that many companies forbid paid first class travel as a matter of policy, so if a travel report came back showing an A14NR fare, for example, the employee might be criticized, whereas he never will if it shows QDLUP.
Apr 8, 2005, 6:41 pm
#107
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10
"The good news is, an IROP YUP/QUP passenger will be rebooked from F whenever available. I think it's very seldom that you will be put in Y. You can always ask to wait for the next available F seat."
Not based on my experience. Despite calling SMS, and being assured FC seats, they then rebooked us into coach...while continuing to process complimentary upgrades. The one agent actually paused to upgrade two people onto the flight WHILE we were trying to get her to book us on the flight. She then offered us coach.
"If you want to sit in First Class and pay the proper price for it, then you must specify that when you purchase."
What is the proper price? When booking, generally we paid at least 2-3x the amount of coach for the A fare. If that isn't the proper price, then Delta should explain that it isn't a first class ticket, and that they can revoke the seat at any time without compensation. How many people would buy that type of seat-lottery ticket? Maybe for 30% more, but not double or triple. I understand that our priority is lower than those who paid full freight first, but expect the airline to honor the reason why I forked over extra money. I have, in the past, bought incredibly cheap coach fares. Nobody said "that's not the proper price, so you're going to have to take the bus because of irreg ops." Similarly, I've paid for A fares, then they've sold upgrades at the gate, meaning that as Medallion members we would have upgraded free. Did I ask for a refund, and immediately buy a coach ticket? No, just figured that was the price I paid for a seat up front, rather than the chance to sit up front. After our experience, however, we haven't bothered to purchase an A fare--lost revenue.
"Getting a refund makes no sense; are you implying that if somebody bought a Y0BV fare in advance to be flexible, they should be entitled a refund to a lower fare when the actually fly?[/QUOTE]"
Absolutely not. That person made a choice, based on their desires, and paid the agreed upon cost. What we are implying is that Delta should not reap revenue based on an expectation, and then claim no responsibility. "Well, clearly you're naive enough to simply pay us a lot more to fly in coach." Okay, Massachusetts actually offers people the chance to be taxed at a HIGHER rate, completely voluntary, and there are some people who bite. So, I understand that Delta would find some people to willingly pay a premium without expectation of a first class seat. (If you are so inclined, please PM me, as I would like to do business with you).
Still, there are a number of simple solutions that would, as they say, get us to Yes. A few suggestions:
1) Offer to anybody in F a free "available at time of booking" upgrade in exchange for their F seat. If nobody is willing to accept, then the A fare person is told "I'm sorry for the inconvenience. Here is your coupon for a guaranteed upgrade from any fare at time of booking"--using the same bucket as YBM upgrades at time of booking. My anger at being bumped wasn't that I had to sit in the back, it was that I paid a huge premium to do so, and then got attitude of "well, maybe if you weren't such a cheapskate and were on a full fare...." No soup for you, thanks for the cash.
2) (Get ready to flame me) Process some complimentary upgrades as "provisional." As a lowly silver, if I received one of these, I could use the priority security line. If the upgrade gets yanked at the gate because of irreg ops passengers who paid 3x what I did for my ticket...well, not necessarily happy but seems fair to me. Got something for nothing (well, my loyalty to the airline), and then lost it.
3) Computers. Seems fairly easy to program, so that when you buy an A fare, it captures the median coach fare at time of purchase, and you know what your refund would be if you lost your seat. Of course, this is not attractive because it puts it in your face, spurring the question: "Do I really want to shell out an extra $1200 for us to sit in F for a few hours."
If Delta (or FTers) engaged in lateral thinking for fifteen minutes, a reasonable solution could be reached. After a beer, I'm not in that kind of form....
Not based on my experience. Despite calling SMS, and being assured FC seats, they then rebooked us into coach...while continuing to process complimentary upgrades. The one agent actually paused to upgrade two people onto the flight WHILE we were trying to get her to book us on the flight. She then offered us coach.
"If you want to sit in First Class and pay the proper price for it, then you must specify that when you purchase."
What is the proper price? When booking, generally we paid at least 2-3x the amount of coach for the A fare. If that isn't the proper price, then Delta should explain that it isn't a first class ticket, and that they can revoke the seat at any time without compensation. How many people would buy that type of seat-lottery ticket? Maybe for 30% more, but not double or triple. I understand that our priority is lower than those who paid full freight first, but expect the airline to honor the reason why I forked over extra money. I have, in the past, bought incredibly cheap coach fares. Nobody said "that's not the proper price, so you're going to have to take the bus because of irreg ops." Similarly, I've paid for A fares, then they've sold upgrades at the gate, meaning that as Medallion members we would have upgraded free. Did I ask for a refund, and immediately buy a coach ticket? No, just figured that was the price I paid for a seat up front, rather than the chance to sit up front. After our experience, however, we haven't bothered to purchase an A fare--lost revenue.
"Getting a refund makes no sense; are you implying that if somebody bought a Y0BV fare in advance to be flexible, they should be entitled a refund to a lower fare when the actually fly?[/QUOTE]"
Absolutely not. That person made a choice, based on their desires, and paid the agreed upon cost. What we are implying is that Delta should not reap revenue based on an expectation, and then claim no responsibility. "Well, clearly you're naive enough to simply pay us a lot more to fly in coach." Okay, Massachusetts actually offers people the chance to be taxed at a HIGHER rate, completely voluntary, and there are some people who bite. So, I understand that Delta would find some people to willingly pay a premium without expectation of a first class seat. (If you are so inclined, please PM me, as I would like to do business with you).
Still, there are a number of simple solutions that would, as they say, get us to Yes. A few suggestions:
1) Offer to anybody in F a free "available at time of booking" upgrade in exchange for their F seat. If nobody is willing to accept, then the A fare person is told "I'm sorry for the inconvenience. Here is your coupon for a guaranteed upgrade from any fare at time of booking"--using the same bucket as YBM upgrades at time of booking. My anger at being bumped wasn't that I had to sit in the back, it was that I paid a huge premium to do so, and then got attitude of "well, maybe if you weren't such a cheapskate and were on a full fare...." No soup for you, thanks for the cash.
2) (Get ready to flame me) Process some complimentary upgrades as "provisional." As a lowly silver, if I received one of these, I could use the priority security line. If the upgrade gets yanked at the gate because of irreg ops passengers who paid 3x what I did for my ticket...well, not necessarily happy but seems fair to me. Got something for nothing (well, my loyalty to the airline), and then lost it.
3) Computers. Seems fairly easy to program, so that when you buy an A fare, it captures the median coach fare at time of purchase, and you know what your refund would be if you lost your seat. Of course, this is not attractive because it puts it in your face, spurring the question: "Do I really want to shell out an extra $1200 for us to sit in F for a few hours."
If Delta (or FTers) engaged in lateral thinking for fifteen minutes, a reasonable solution could be reached. After a beer, I'm not in that kind of form....
Apr 9, 2005, 11:52 am
#108
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NC
Programs: AAConciergeKey/1MM, DL DM/2 MM, UA Gold,Hilton Diamond, IHG Plat, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 11,995
Right on about treating customers as if they are cheapskates for not paying an F fare (when they're not even offered). Any experience getting refunds?? Should I just let it go. This is the second time this has happened and both times I was put in Y (I dont care about that, but I do care about paying F and sitting in Y).
Apr 11, 2005, 12:44 pm
#109
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 2,587
Can I take this a slightly different way...what are the considerations in upgrading a high coach fare into the A class?
Do you pay the $50 plus the fare difference, or just the fare difference?
The consideration: ATL-EWR...the coach fare is roughly $222, the A fare is roughly $262. Supposedly the $222 fare is refundable...
JL
Do you pay the $50 plus the fare difference, or just the fare difference?
The consideration: ATL-EWR...the coach fare is roughly $222, the A fare is roughly $262. Supposedly the $222 fare is refundable...
JL
Apr 11, 2005, 2:18 pm
#110
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: DL 3 MM/DM, Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, National Exec Elite
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by jamiel
Can I take this a slightly different way...what are the considerations in upgrading a high coach fare into the A class?
Do you pay the $50 plus the fare difference, or just the fare difference?
The consideration: ATL-EWR...the coach fare is roughly $222, the A fare is roughly $262. Supposedly the $222 fare is refundable...
JL
Do you pay the $50 plus the fare difference, or just the fare difference?
The consideration: ATL-EWR...the coach fare is roughly $222, the A fare is roughly $262. Supposedly the $222 fare is refundable...
JL
If the $222 fare is refundable, then no change fee would be involved. They should be able to exchange it without a fee. If they were to strangely require one, you could simply cancel and refund the $222 ticket, then buy the A fare as a separate transaction.
Jun 10, 2006, 2:17 pm
#112
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Orleans (for now)
Programs: DL PM, WN, SC, various other programs of lowly status
Posts: 1,673
Need a quick answer on A fare rules
For the life of me I can't discern if this A fare has a cancellation fee or change fee. Can somebody plow through this for me? I highlighed the only reference I could find to cancellations.
APPLICATION RULE
NORMAL FARES
APPLICATION
CLASS OF SERVICE
THESE FARES APPLY FOR FIRST/BUSINESS/COACH CLASS
SERVICE.
TYPES OF TRANSPORTATION
THIS RULE ALSO APPLIES TO JOINT TRANSPORTATION.
CAPACITY LIMITATIONS
VIA OTHER THAN F-/C-/Y- TYPE FARES SEATS ARE
LIMITED.
ADVANCE RES/TKTG
RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED FOR ALL SECTORS.
WAITLIST NOT PERMITTED.
TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED BY MIDNIGHT 1 DAY AFTER
RESERVATIONS ARE MADE.
NOTE -
STANDBY IS NOT PERMITTED.
SAME DAY CONFIRM/SDC -
PASSENGERS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND
TICKETS MAY CONFIRM EARLIER/LATER SAME DAY
FLIGHTS BETWEEN SAME ORIGIN/DESTINATION/
STOPOVER POINTS. NEW ITINERARY MAY NOT BE
CONFIRMED MORE THAN 3 HOURS PRIOR TO
DEPARTURE TIME OF NEW OUTBOUND FLIGHT. THE
NEW ITINERARY MUST BE VALID FOR ORIGINAL FARE
PURCHASED.
SEE PENALTIES/VOLUNTARY CHANGES FOR COMPLETE
RULES AND RESTRICTIONS.
CHILD DISCOUNT
GENERAL RULES TEXT
1ST INFANT UNDER 2 WITHOUT A SEAT - NO CHARGE
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITH A SEAT - CHARGE 50 PERCENT OF THE
FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - IN50.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME
COMPARTMENT BY ADULT.
SURCHARGES
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL VIA HOU
OR
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL VIA MEM
A SURCHARGE OF USD 4.19 WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE
FARE FOR TRAVEL.
FLIGHT APPLIC
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
DL FLIGHTS 1 THROUGH 1904
DL FLIGHTS 2100 THROUGH 5616
DL FLIGHTS 5619 THROUGH 6492
DL FLIGHTS 6493 THROUGH 7779
DL FLIGHTS 7780 THROUGH 9399
DL FLIGHTS 9400 THROUGH 9999
IN COMBINATION WITH
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY DL FLIGHT.
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
DL FLIGHTS 1 THROUGH 1904
DL FLIGHTS 2100 THROUGH 5616
DL FLIGHTS 5619 THROUGH 6492
DL FLIGHTS 6493 THROUGH 7779
DL FLIGHTS 7780 THROUGH 9399
DL FLIGHTS 9400 THROUGH 9999.
TRANSFERS
UNLIMITED TRANSFERS PERMITTED - A MAXIMUM OF 2 OUTBOUND OR
A MAXIMUM OF 2 INBOUND
ONLINE ON THE PUBLISHING CARRIER.
SALE RESTRICTION
NOTE -
EXTENSION OF TICKET VALIDITY PERMITTED UNDER
GUIDELINES SET FORTH BY CARRIER. CONTACT
CARRIER FOR DETAILS.
PENALTIES
NOTE -
-CHANGES ARE PERMITTED ANYTIME
-ALL TKTS MUST BE REISSUED
-CHANGES RESULTING IN A HIGHER FARE MUST BE ADD
COLLECTED AT THE TIME OF REISSUE
-IF THE CHANGE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE THE
DIFFERENCE MAY BE REFUNDED TO THE ORIGINAL FORM
OF PAYMENT WITHOUT PENALTY
EFFECTIVE 01MAR03
SAME DAY CONFIRM/SDC
PSGRS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND TKTS
MAY CONFIRM TRAVEL FOR AN EARLIER/LATER
SAME DAY DL NONSTOP AND/OR CONNECTING FLIGHT/S
BETWEEN THE SAME ORIGIN AND DESTINATION AIRPORTS
AT NO CHARGE.
NOTE -
A. SEAT INVENTORY MUST BE AVAILABLE IN THE
CABIN APPLICABLE TO THE FARE CHARGED.
B. CHANGES PERMITTED TO OUTBOUND OR CONTINUING/
RETURN FLIGHTS
C. FLIGHTS/S AND ROUTING MUST BE APPLICABLE FOR
THE FARE CHARGED
D. IF THE REQUESTED CHANGE IS NOT APPLICABLE
FOR THE FARE PURCHASED IE INVAILD ROUTING/
AIRPORT/FLIGHT NUMBER/DEPARTURE TIME/ETC-
THE CUSTOMER MAY UPGRADE TO A FARE THAT DOES
PERMIT THOSE CHANGES USING NORMAL REISSUE
PROCEDURES AND PAYING ANY FARE DIFFERENCE
E. IF THE CUSTOMER REQUESTS THE CHANGE MORE
THAN 3 HOURS PRIOR TO THE NEW FLIGHT DEPARTURE
TIME THE CUSTOMER CAN CONFIRM ON A DIFFERENT
FLIGHT ON THE SAME DAY OF TICKETED TRAVEL
PAYING ANY APPLICABLE FARE DIFFERENCE
TICKET REISSUE PROCEDURES
I.CHANGES TO OUTBOUND PORTION OF UNUSED TKTS
A. ISSUE A NEW TKT - CANCEL AND START OVER
B. MUST USE CURRENT FARES
C. VERIFY ALL RULES
D. VALUE OF ORIGINAL TICKET MAY BE APPLIED
TOWARDS PURCHASE OF A NEW TICKET
II.CHANGES TO CONTINUING/RETURN OF UNUSED TKTS
A.ATTEMPT TO KEEP THE FARES AS TICKETED
-CANNOT CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF ANY FARE
COMPONENT
-MUST BE ABLE TO KEEP THE ORIGINAL FARES AS
TICKETED FOR ALL FARE COMPONENTS
-USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF
THE ORIGINAL TKT ISSUE
-ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED
B. REPRICE KEEPING OUTBOUND FARES AND REPLACING
CONTINUING/RETURN FARE COMPONENTS USING
HISTORICAL FARES
-CANNOT CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF THE FIRST
FARE COMPONENT
-USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF
ORIGINAL TKT ISSUE
-ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED
INCLUDING FARE COMBINABILITY
C. ISSUE A NEW TKT - CANCEL AND START OVER
-MUST USE CURRENT FARES/VERIFY ALL RULES
-VALUE OF ORIGINAL TKT MAY BE APPLIED TOWARD
PURCHASE OF A NEW TICKET
III. CHANGES TO PARTIALLY USED TKTS
NOTE - MUST COMPLETE TRAVEL BY 1 YEAR FROM THE
ORIGINAL TKT ISSUE DATE
A.ATTEMPT TO KEEP THE FARES AS TICKETED
-CANNOT CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF ANY FARE
COMPONENT
-MUST BE ABLE TO KEEP THE ORIGINAL FARES AS
TICKETED FOR ALL FARE COMPONENTS
-USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF
THE ORIGINAL TKT ISSUE
-ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED INCLUDING
FARE COMBINABILITY
B. REPRICE KEEPING FARES FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS
AND REPLACE UNFLOWN FARE COMPONENTS USING
HISTORICAL FARES
-MAY CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF ANY FARE
COMPONENT EXCEPT FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS
-USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF
THE ORIGINAL TKT ISSUE
-ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED INCLUDING
FARE COMBINABILITY
C.REPRICE REPLACING FARES FOR FLOWN FARE
COMPONENTS WITH HISTORICAL FARE/S IN AN EQUAL OR
HIGHER BOOKING CLASS AND REPLACE UNFLOWN FARE
COMPONENTS USING HISTORICAL FARES
-MAY CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF ANY FARE
COMPONENT EXCEPT FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS
-USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF
THE ORIGINAL TKT ISSUE
-ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED INCLUDING
FARE COMBINABILITY
-REPLACEMENT FARES FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS
MUST BE OF EQUAL OR HIGHER VALUE AND BOOKING
CLASS THAN THE ORIGINAL TKTD FARE
-USE BOOKING CLASS HIERARCHY WHEN REPLACING FARES
FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS
THE HIERARCHY IS
ECONOMY CLASS - Y B M H Q K L U T
BUSINESS CLASS - J C D I
FIRST CLASS - F A
D. ISSUE A NEW TICKET
-ORIGINAL TICKET HAS NO RESIDUAL VALUE
-CALCULATE NEW TICKET USING CURRENT FARES
-VALIDATE ALL RULES
CANCELLATIONS
PER TICKET CHARGE USD 100.00 FOR LOST TICKET.
NOTE -
NO SERVICE CHARGE WILL BE IMPOSED FOR MILITARY
PASSENGERS WHEN TRANSPORTATION IS PAID WITH A U.S.
GOVERNMENT TRANSPORTATION REQUEST FORM NO. 1169.
COMBINABILITY
ADD-ONS NOT PERMITTED.
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS WITH ANY
FARE FOR ANY CARRIER IN ANY RULE AND TARIFF TO FORM
SINGLE/DOUBLE OPEN JAWS/2-COMPONENT ROUND TRIPS/MULTI-
COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS.
END-ON-END PERMITTED. VALIDATE ALL FARE COMPONENTS.
TRAVEL MUST BE VIA POINT OF COMBINATION.
TRAVEL MUST BE VIA POINT OF COMBINATION.
NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT-
BWI-WAS FLL-MIA LAX-ONT LAX-BUR LAX-SNA ONT-BUR
ONT-SNA BUR-SNA NYC-EWR OAK-SFO OAK-SJC SFO-SJC
ROUTING 501 *** TRAVEL MUST BE DIRECT ***
501 FROM-TO MSY-DL-ATL*
APPLICATION RULE
NORMAL FARES
APPLICATION
CLASS OF SERVICE
THESE FARES APPLY FOR FIRST/BUSINESS/COACH CLASS
SERVICE.
TYPES OF TRANSPORTATION
THIS RULE ALSO APPLIES TO JOINT TRANSPORTATION.
CAPACITY LIMITATIONS
VIA OTHER THAN F-/C-/Y- TYPE FARES SEATS ARE
LIMITED.
ADVANCE RES/TKTG
RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED FOR ALL SECTORS.
WAITLIST NOT PERMITTED.
TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED BY MIDNIGHT 1 DAY AFTER
RESERVATIONS ARE MADE.
NOTE -
STANDBY IS NOT PERMITTED.
SAME DAY CONFIRM/SDC -
PASSENGERS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND
TICKETS MAY CONFIRM EARLIER/LATER SAME DAY
FLIGHTS BETWEEN SAME ORIGIN/DESTINATION/
STOPOVER POINTS. NEW ITINERARY MAY NOT BE
CONFIRMED MORE THAN 3 HOURS PRIOR TO
DEPARTURE TIME OF NEW OUTBOUND FLIGHT. THE
NEW ITINERARY MUST BE VALID FOR ORIGINAL FARE
PURCHASED.
SEE PENALTIES/VOLUNTARY CHANGES FOR COMPLETE
RULES AND RESTRICTIONS.
CHILD DISCOUNT
GENERAL RULES TEXT
1ST INFANT UNDER 2 WITHOUT A SEAT - NO CHARGE
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITH A SEAT - CHARGE 50 PERCENT OF THE
FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - IN50.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME
COMPARTMENT BY ADULT.
SURCHARGES
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL VIA HOU
OR
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL VIA MEM
A SURCHARGE OF USD 4.19 WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE
FARE FOR TRAVEL.
FLIGHT APPLIC
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
DL FLIGHTS 1 THROUGH 1904
DL FLIGHTS 2100 THROUGH 5616
DL FLIGHTS 5619 THROUGH 6492
DL FLIGHTS 6493 THROUGH 7779
DL FLIGHTS 7780 THROUGH 9399
DL FLIGHTS 9400 THROUGH 9999
IN COMBINATION WITH
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY DL FLIGHT.
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
DL FLIGHTS 1 THROUGH 1904
DL FLIGHTS 2100 THROUGH 5616
DL FLIGHTS 5619 THROUGH 6492
DL FLIGHTS 6493 THROUGH 7779
DL FLIGHTS 7780 THROUGH 9399
DL FLIGHTS 9400 THROUGH 9999.
TRANSFERS
UNLIMITED TRANSFERS PERMITTED - A MAXIMUM OF 2 OUTBOUND OR
A MAXIMUM OF 2 INBOUND
ONLINE ON THE PUBLISHING CARRIER.
SALE RESTRICTION
NOTE -
EXTENSION OF TICKET VALIDITY PERMITTED UNDER
GUIDELINES SET FORTH BY CARRIER. CONTACT
CARRIER FOR DETAILS.
PENALTIES
NOTE -
-CHANGES ARE PERMITTED ANYTIME
-ALL TKTS MUST BE REISSUED
-CHANGES RESULTING IN A HIGHER FARE MUST BE ADD
COLLECTED AT THE TIME OF REISSUE
-IF THE CHANGE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE THE
DIFFERENCE MAY BE REFUNDED TO THE ORIGINAL FORM
OF PAYMENT WITHOUT PENALTY
EFFECTIVE 01MAR03
SAME DAY CONFIRM/SDC
PSGRS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND TKTS
MAY CONFIRM TRAVEL FOR AN EARLIER/LATER
SAME DAY DL NONSTOP AND/OR CONNECTING FLIGHT/S
BETWEEN THE SAME ORIGIN AND DESTINATION AIRPORTS
AT NO CHARGE.
NOTE -
A. SEAT INVENTORY MUST BE AVAILABLE IN THE
CABIN APPLICABLE TO THE FARE CHARGED.
B. CHANGES PERMITTED TO OUTBOUND OR CONTINUING/
RETURN FLIGHTS
C. FLIGHTS/S AND ROUTING MUST BE APPLICABLE FOR
THE FARE CHARGED
D. IF THE REQUESTED CHANGE IS NOT APPLICABLE
FOR THE FARE PURCHASED IE INVAILD ROUTING/
AIRPORT/FLIGHT NUMBER/DEPARTURE TIME/ETC-
THE CUSTOMER MAY UPGRADE TO A FARE THAT DOES
PERMIT THOSE CHANGES USING NORMAL REISSUE
PROCEDURES AND PAYING ANY FARE DIFFERENCE
E. IF THE CUSTOMER REQUESTS THE CHANGE MORE
THAN 3 HOURS PRIOR TO THE NEW FLIGHT DEPARTURE
TIME THE CUSTOMER CAN CONFIRM ON A DIFFERENT
FLIGHT ON THE SAME DAY OF TICKETED TRAVEL
PAYING ANY APPLICABLE FARE DIFFERENCE
TICKET REISSUE PROCEDURES
I.CHANGES TO OUTBOUND PORTION OF UNUSED TKTS
A. ISSUE A NEW TKT - CANCEL AND START OVER
B. MUST USE CURRENT FARES
C. VERIFY ALL RULES
D. VALUE OF ORIGINAL TICKET MAY BE APPLIED
TOWARDS PURCHASE OF A NEW TICKET
II.CHANGES TO CONTINUING/RETURN OF UNUSED TKTS
A.ATTEMPT TO KEEP THE FARES AS TICKETED
-CANNOT CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF ANY FARE
COMPONENT
-MUST BE ABLE TO KEEP THE ORIGINAL FARES AS
TICKETED FOR ALL FARE COMPONENTS
-USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF
THE ORIGINAL TKT ISSUE
-ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED
B. REPRICE KEEPING OUTBOUND FARES AND REPLACING
CONTINUING/RETURN FARE COMPONENTS USING
HISTORICAL FARES
-CANNOT CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF THE FIRST
FARE COMPONENT
-USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF
ORIGINAL TKT ISSUE
-ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED
INCLUDING FARE COMBINABILITY
C. ISSUE A NEW TKT - CANCEL AND START OVER
-MUST USE CURRENT FARES/VERIFY ALL RULES
-VALUE OF ORIGINAL TKT MAY BE APPLIED TOWARD
PURCHASE OF A NEW TICKET
III. CHANGES TO PARTIALLY USED TKTS
NOTE - MUST COMPLETE TRAVEL BY 1 YEAR FROM THE
ORIGINAL TKT ISSUE DATE
A.ATTEMPT TO KEEP THE FARES AS TICKETED
-CANNOT CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF ANY FARE
COMPONENT
-MUST BE ABLE TO KEEP THE ORIGINAL FARES AS
TICKETED FOR ALL FARE COMPONENTS
-USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF
THE ORIGINAL TKT ISSUE
-ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED INCLUDING
FARE COMBINABILITY
B. REPRICE KEEPING FARES FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS
AND REPLACE UNFLOWN FARE COMPONENTS USING
HISTORICAL FARES
-MAY CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF ANY FARE
COMPONENT EXCEPT FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS
-USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF
THE ORIGINAL TKT ISSUE
-ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED INCLUDING
FARE COMBINABILITY
C.REPRICE REPLACING FARES FOR FLOWN FARE
COMPONENTS WITH HISTORICAL FARE/S IN AN EQUAL OR
HIGHER BOOKING CLASS AND REPLACE UNFLOWN FARE
COMPONENTS USING HISTORICAL FARES
-MAY CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF ANY FARE
COMPONENT EXCEPT FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS
-USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF
THE ORIGINAL TKT ISSUE
-ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED INCLUDING
FARE COMBINABILITY
-REPLACEMENT FARES FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS
MUST BE OF EQUAL OR HIGHER VALUE AND BOOKING
CLASS THAN THE ORIGINAL TKTD FARE
-USE BOOKING CLASS HIERARCHY WHEN REPLACING FARES
FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS
THE HIERARCHY IS
ECONOMY CLASS - Y B M H Q K L U T
BUSINESS CLASS - J C D I
FIRST CLASS - F A
D. ISSUE A NEW TICKET
-ORIGINAL TICKET HAS NO RESIDUAL VALUE
-CALCULATE NEW TICKET USING CURRENT FARES
-VALIDATE ALL RULES
CANCELLATIONS
PER TICKET CHARGE USD 100.00 FOR LOST TICKET.
NOTE -
NO SERVICE CHARGE WILL BE IMPOSED FOR MILITARY
PASSENGERS WHEN TRANSPORTATION IS PAID WITH A U.S.
GOVERNMENT TRANSPORTATION REQUEST FORM NO. 1169.
COMBINABILITY
ADD-ONS NOT PERMITTED.
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS WITH ANY
FARE FOR ANY CARRIER IN ANY RULE AND TARIFF TO FORM
SINGLE/DOUBLE OPEN JAWS/2-COMPONENT ROUND TRIPS/MULTI-
COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS.
END-ON-END PERMITTED. VALIDATE ALL FARE COMPONENTS.
TRAVEL MUST BE VIA POINT OF COMBINATION.
TRAVEL MUST BE VIA POINT OF COMBINATION.
NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT-
BWI-WAS FLL-MIA LAX-ONT LAX-BUR LAX-SNA ONT-BUR
ONT-SNA BUR-SNA NYC-EWR OAK-SFO OAK-SJC SFO-SJC
ROUTING 501 *** TRAVEL MUST BE DIRECT ***
501 FROM-TO MSY-DL-ATL*
Jun 10, 2006, 2:19 pm
#113
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Programs: AA Platinum Pro, AC *S, Marriott Gold Elite, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 9,692
I'm pretty sure that changes are free by this:
If there is a fee, it would say something like:
Cheers
PENALTIES
NOTE -
-CHANGES ARE PERMITTED ANYTIME
NOTE -
-CHANGES ARE PERMITTED ANYTIME
PENALTIES
NOTE -
-CHANGES ARE PERMITTED ANYTIME CAD50
NOTE -
-CHANGES ARE PERMITTED ANYTIME CAD50
Jun 10, 2006, 2:41 pm
#116
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 2,583
Full cancellations or exchanges are easy. Cancel - get your money back; exchange
-CHANGES RESULTING IN A HIGHER FARE MUST BE ADD
COLLECTED AT THE TIME OF REISSUE
-IF THE CHANGE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE THE
DIFFERENCE MAY BE REFUNDED TO THE ORIGINAL FORM
OF PAYMENT WITHOUT PENALTY
Use outgoing portion and then try an exchange on the return can be more difficult. At least it was for me the only time I tried it.
-CHANGES RESULTING IN A HIGHER FARE MUST BE ADD
COLLECTED AT THE TIME OF REISSUE
-IF THE CHANGE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE THE
DIFFERENCE MAY BE REFUNDED TO THE ORIGINAL FORM
OF PAYMENT WITHOUT PENALTY
Use outgoing portion and then try an exchange on the return can be more difficult. At least it was for me the only time I tried it.
Jun 10, 2006, 4:50 pm
#118
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP / LT PLT / 3MM, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 35,446
Is that really true? Or just a technical reading of the quoted rules?
I've seen many cases where fully refundable fares make no specific reference to refundability in the fare rules, instead just referring to cancellations without penalty.
I've seen many cases where fully refundable fares make no specific reference to refundability in the fare rules, instead just referring to cancellations without penalty.
Jun 10, 2006, 5:07 pm
#119
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Programs: AA Platinum Pro, AC *S, Marriott Gold Elite, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 9,692
Originally Posted by vasantn
Is that really true? Or just a technical reading of the quoted rules?
I've seen many cases where fully refundable fares make no specific reference to refundability in the fare rules, instead just referring to cancellations without penalty.
I've seen many cases where fully refundable fares make no specific reference to refundability in the fare rules, instead just referring to cancellations without penalty.
Cheers
Jun 10, 2006, 5:22 pm
#120
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: DL 3 MM/DM, Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, National Exec Elite
Posts: 4,005
This is a very irritating subject to me, because frankly all of the legacy airlines do a horrible job writing these fare rules.
Surely to goodness, there should be a simple entry somewhere that says Refundable or Non-refundable.
As others have noted, this fare is refundable. But for the life of me I don't understand how someone who doesn't read fare rules very often would be able to tell.
Basically, if it doesn't say "non-refundable" somewhere, it is probably refundable. The other key word in that fare rule above is that at the top of the rules, it says -- in the second line -- "NORMAL FARE". I have found that to be a common thing with refundable fares (harkening back to the good old days of regulation
when "normal" fares were all refundable, and only abnormal fares carried restrictions such as non-refundability).
Surely to goodness, there should be a simple entry somewhere that says Refundable or Non-refundable.
As others have noted, this fare is refundable. But for the life of me I don't understand how someone who doesn't read fare rules very often would be able to tell.
Basically, if it doesn't say "non-refundable" somewhere, it is probably refundable. The other key word in that fare rule above is that at the top of the rules, it says -- in the second line -- "NORMAL FARE". I have found that to be a common thing with refundable fares (harkening back to the good old days of regulation
when "normal" fares were all refundable, and only abnormal fares carried restrictions such as non-refundability).