DL considering increasing F capacity to 75% (survey email)
Aug 5, 2020, 2:58 pm
#16
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I agree with everything you’re saying and think it’s fair criticism of my thoughts. The egregious part to me comes from the other end - it’s that Delta would be breaking the promise they made to existing F passengers, and I guess my initial gut reaction is that it “feels” worse if they are compromising your safety just to restore an optional elite benefit and not even getting any additional revenue for it.
Although that doesn’t really stand up to even a cursory examination, because upgrading Y passengers frees up coach seats they can then go ahead and sell, so it affects revenue too.
It’s really just optics, and I think front line employees will have to cope with a fair amount of “you mean I paid to get my own row for distancing and now you’re going to upgrade someone into it?!” frustration, even though that’s not objectively any worse than “you mean now you’re going to sell that seat?”; it feels to the F passenger like their purchase is valued less by the company than a random elite’s loyalty, even if the underlying rationale is purely economic.
Although that doesn’t really stand up to even a cursory examination, because upgrading Y passengers frees up coach seats they can then go ahead and sell, so it affects revenue too.
It’s really just optics, and I think front line employees will have to cope with a fair amount of “you mean I paid to get my own row for distancing and now you’re going to upgrade someone into it?!” frustration, even though that’s not objectively any worse than “you mean now you’re going to sell that seat?”; it feels to the F passenger like their purchase is valued less by the company than a random elite’s loyalty, even if the underlying rationale is purely economic.
Aug 5, 2020, 3:00 pm
#17
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 163
I disagree on the business model because there are plenty of diamonds getting complimentary upgrades to First Class although it is certainly route dependent. Is it 50%? Probably not, but business travel is still down, and I feel that is where much of the F cabin comes from.
Aug 5, 2020, 3:00 pm
#18
Formerly known as scootr29
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PS I just took a business trip on Delta and they are hurting bad. ATL is still an absolute ghost town and Delta can't survive if this goes into 2021.
PS2 My brother is a furloughed pilot for AA and rumor has it they are about to offer a buyout/early retirement to every pilot no matter age...5 years at 50 hours pay plus 5 years medical to leave the company.
PS2 My brother is a furloughed pilot for AA and rumor has it they are about to offer a buyout/early retirement to every pilot no matter age...5 years at 50 hours pay plus 5 years medical to leave the company.
Last edited by ryandc99; Aug 5, 2020 at 5:53 pm Reason: mod note - removed inflammatory language
Aug 5, 2020, 3:02 pm
#19
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I'm not really sure what the difference between 75% and 100% would be in F. Either way some people are going to be sitting next to one another.
With that said, until actual F service returns to F, I have no intention of paying for it. I'd much rather sit in a C+ exit row with the middle blocked.
With that said, until actual F service returns to F, I have no intention of paying for it. I'd much rather sit in a C+ exit row with the middle blocked.
Aug 5, 2020, 3:29 pm
#20
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Aug 5, 2020, 3:46 pm
#21
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The percentage should depend on the seating configuration and people traveling together should be exceptions to the rule. For example, the CRJ-900/CRJ-700 can start by filling all 6 or 8 window seats and add people in aisle seats if they're traveling together, up to 9 or 12 in FC. If there are four or five rows of 2-2 in the FC cabin, start with all window seats, so 8 or 10 (50%) and go up to 16 or 20 depending on how many are are traveling alone.
For D1 suites, there's no reason not to do 100%. Even D1 on wide bodies without suites can go to 100% since the center section has the retractable walls (IIRC on all 767s and A330s, while all 350s and 777s have suites) to separate seats if people aren't together.
For D1 suites, there's no reason not to do 100%. Even D1 on wide bodies without suites can go to 100% since the center section has the retractable walls (IIRC on all 767s and A330s, while all 350s and 777s have suites) to separate seats if people aren't together.
Aug 5, 2020, 3:58 pm
#22
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 224
The percentage should depend on the seating configuration and people traveling together should be exceptions to the rule. For example, the CRJ-900/CRJ-700 can start by filling all 6 or 8 window seats and add people in aisle seats if they're traveling together, up to 9 or 12 in FC. If there are four or five rows of 2-2 in the FC cabin, start with all window seats, so 8 or 10 (50%) and go up to 16 or 20 depending on how many are are traveling alone.
For D1 suites, there's no reason not to do 100%. Even D1 on wide bodies without suites can go to 100% since the center section has the retractable walls (IIRC on all 767s and A330s, while all 350s and 777s have suites) to separate seats if people aren't together.
For D1 suites, there's no reason not to do 100%. Even D1 on wide bodies without suites can go to 100% since the center section has the retractable walls (IIRC on all 767s and A330s, while all 350s and 777s have suites) to separate seats if people aren't together.
Aug 5, 2020, 4:17 pm
#23
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Wow! I don't refresh the page for a couple hours, and look!!!
Gonna touch on a few commenters points, peripherally, per my own experience.
Taking a domestic family trip to CO for a week, and coming back home, decided to use Sky Pesos to bump to first, as a lark and for my son to experience up front...he's never done so.
Flying a 739ER. My wife and I will be in one row, he'll be window behind us. When I bumped last week, FC was empty, save for 1C/1D for FA. Looking this morning, the window across the aisle from me and Mrs. dtwlarry was now taken. Thus, the possibility of 75% utilization could occur, all the way up to 100%, per the concepts posited upstream in this thread.
YMMV, but this isn't a deal breaker at this time. And I doubt this gets implemented prior to 1OCT20, if not later than that.
Gonna touch on a few commenters points, peripherally, per my own experience.
Taking a domestic family trip to CO for a week, and coming back home, decided to use Sky Pesos to bump to first, as a lark and for my son to experience up front...he's never done so.
Flying a 739ER. My wife and I will be in one row, he'll be window behind us. When I bumped last week, FC was empty, save for 1C/1D for FA. Looking this morning, the window across the aisle from me and Mrs. dtwlarry was now taken. Thus, the possibility of 75% utilization could occur, all the way up to 100%, per the concepts posited upstream in this thread.
YMMV, but this isn't a deal breaker at this time. And I doubt this gets implemented prior to 1OCT20, if not later than that.
Aug 5, 2020, 4:20 pm
#24
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I agree. I’ve had “Full” FC cabins with empty rows because people are traveling together and sit together. I think it wouldn’t be harmful to guarantee you won’t be seated next to someone you aren’t traveling with but also increase the cap. The number of complaints I’ve gotten from people on the upgrade list that are seeing empty rows and wondering why they didn’t get it is growing each trip.
If Delta forces dual bookings to sit together in an attempt to pack more people into the cabin, it makes an F booking less valuable if you're traveling as a group.
I understand front line employees probably get a lot of complaints from elites who see empty rows and are frustrated at not getting an upgrade, but right now that's the entire value proposition of the F cabin.
Aug 5, 2020, 4:42 pm
#25
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See, this situation is precisely why I am willing to pay for F. If both my wife and I book, and we choose seats 1B and 2B, we would have two rows; we could then sit in 1A/1B once aloft and actually maintain multiple feet of separation in every direction throughout most of the flight.
If Delta forces dual bookings to sit together in an attempt to pack more people into the cabin, it makes an F booking less valuable if you're traveling as a group.
I understand front line employees probably get a lot of complaints from elites who see empty rows and are frustrated at not getting an upgrade, but right now that's the entire value proposition of the F cabin.
If Delta forces dual bookings to sit together in an attempt to pack more people into the cabin, it makes an F booking less valuable if you're traveling as a group.
I understand front line employees probably get a lot of complaints from elites who see empty rows and are frustrated at not getting an upgrade, but right now that's the entire value proposition of the F cabin.
Aug 5, 2020, 4:53 pm
#27
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Booked:
[PAX1][BLOCKED] aisle [BLOCKED][OTHERPAX]
[PAX2][BLOCKED] aisle [BLOCKED][OTHERPAX]
Aloft:
[PAX1][PAX2] aisle [BLOCKED][OTHERPAX]
[EMPTY][EMPTY] aisle [BLOCKED][OTHERPAX]
This is meaningfully better than being in a single row of C+.
Aug 5, 2020, 5:06 pm
#28
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If it’s a hoax related to the election, why were there more severe lockdowns in almost every other developed country?
Aug 5, 2020, 6:20 pm
#29
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This whole thing is changing by the week. Got to fly wear the PPE, not comfortable stay home simple as that full flight or the only one.
Maybe I'm lucky but my company has put a priority on safety and if I'm not comfortable I don't travel. Lucky I can do 99.9% remote.
As to how I feel about blocking or full flight, if you got to travel, just like the doctor or nurse and part of your job suck it up, part of the job and stop crying.
If you aren't comfortable maybe you are in the wrong job or the job took a turn for the worse. Did ER and ICU opt out, did volunteers to the armed forces opt out when they had to go to war. I think there are probably unique situation then then talk to the boss, I find it currently hard to believe that for most that fly if you opt out you will be terminated, maybe the wrenches that fly.
Maybe I'm lucky but my company has put a priority on safety and if I'm not comfortable I don't travel. Lucky I can do 99.9% remote.
As to how I feel about blocking or full flight, if you got to travel, just like the doctor or nurse and part of your job suck it up, part of the job and stop crying.
If you aren't comfortable maybe you are in the wrong job or the job took a turn for the worse. Did ER and ICU opt out, did volunteers to the armed forces opt out when they had to go to war. I think there are probably unique situation then then talk to the boss, I find it currently hard to believe that for most that fly if you opt out you will be terminated, maybe the wrenches that fly.
Aug 5, 2020, 6:24 pm
#30
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In F, with Delta's current rules, you end up with an entirely empty row behind you if you book 1B and 2B and then rearrange once aloft.
Booked:
[PAX1][BLOCKED] aisle [BLOCKED][OTHERPAX]
[PAX2][BLOCKED] aisle [BLOCKED][OTHERPAX]
Aloft:
[PAX1][PAX2] aisle [BLOCKED][OTHERPAX]
[EMPTY][EMPTY] aisle [BLOCKED][OTHERPAX]
This is meaningfully better than being in a single row of C+.
Booked:
[PAX1][BLOCKED] aisle [BLOCKED][OTHERPAX]
[PAX2][BLOCKED] aisle [BLOCKED][OTHERPAX]
Aloft:
[PAX1][PAX2] aisle [BLOCKED][OTHERPAX]
[EMPTY][EMPTY] aisle [BLOCKED][OTHERPAX]
This is meaningfully better than being in a single row of C+.