Nested tickets
Dec 12, 2017, 10:31 am
#106
Join Date: Dec 2017
Programs: DL
Posts: 7
Nested tickets
Hi,
I have done lots of reading and searching and cannot really find definitive proof. Please note that I am not asking if it works or likelihood of detection, I am asking if it is legal or does it violate the rules (DL does not specifically state one way or another). I've seen people say it is fine and others say it violates fare rules. I am only concerned about impact to FF account.
International J fares out of JFK are very low at times. As I understand it, this is an example of "nested" tickets - it does not violate Saturday stay, it is not back-to-back, it is two tickets to make one trip. Example:
Fare from CLE-DUB RT in J is $9K
Fare from JFK-DUB RT in J is $4K, A fare from CLE-JFK RT is $1K
Purchase separate tickets for a total of $5K
Or what about using LGA for domestic ticket? Does that even matter since they are co-terminals?
CLE-LGA-CLE
JFK-DUB-JFK
Any proof one way or the other would be appreciated. Thank you
Alternative is to take OAL for domestic portion
I have done lots of reading and searching and cannot really find definitive proof. Please note that I am not asking if it works or likelihood of detection, I am asking if it is legal or does it violate the rules (DL does not specifically state one way or another). I've seen people say it is fine and others say it violates fare rules. I am only concerned about impact to FF account.
International J fares out of JFK are very low at times. As I understand it, this is an example of "nested" tickets - it does not violate Saturday stay, it is not back-to-back, it is two tickets to make one trip. Example:
Fare from CLE-DUB RT in J is $9K
Fare from JFK-DUB RT in J is $4K, A fare from CLE-JFK RT is $1K
Purchase separate tickets for a total of $5K
Or what about using LGA for domestic ticket? Does that even matter since they are co-terminals?
CLE-LGA-CLE
JFK-DUB-JFK
Any proof one way or the other would be appreciated. Thank you
Alternative is to take OAL for domestic portion
Dec 12, 2017, 10:43 am
#107
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: LAX/BUR, RDU
Programs: DL SM, AAdvantage, SPG
Posts: 1,360
You shouldn't have any problems doing this... unless doing so violates minimum stay requirements. Many people similarly do this when positioning to international gateway cities.
I'm doing something like this in a few months because, like you said, tickets from JFK are cheaper than other cities.
I'm doing something like this in a few months because, like you said, tickets from JFK are cheaper than other cities.
Dec 12, 2017, 10:46 am
#108
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta PlM, 1M
Posts: 6,363
Perfectly legal per CoC.
Nested tickets are only illegal when an attempt to circumvent min stay restrictions or such.
Your example is simply avoiding married segment issues, which is not against the formal rules.
EDIT: ATL-DUB via JFK is the same. Must buy 2 separate tickets.
Nested tickets are only illegal when an attempt to circumvent min stay restrictions or such.
Your example is simply avoiding married segment issues, which is not against the formal rules.
EDIT: ATL-DUB via JFK is the same. Must buy 2 separate tickets.
Last edited by exwannabe; Dec 12, 2017 at 10:51 am
Dec 12, 2017, 10:54 am
#109
Join Date: Dec 2017
Programs: DL
Posts: 7
You shouldn't have any problems doing this... unless doing so violates minimum stay requirements. Many people similarly do this when positioning to international gateway cities.
I'm doing something like this in a few months because, like you said, tickets from JFK are cheaper than other cities.
I'm doing something like this in a few months because, like you said, tickets from JFK are cheaper than other cities.
Dec 12, 2017, 10:54 am
#110
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta PM, 1MM
Posts: 3,784
There is a third option to check out,
CLE-JFK (one-way ticket)
JFK-DUB-CLE (with likely routing through JFK)
I recently flew the following:
MSP-BOS (layover in Boston for a few days)
BOS-FCO-BOS-MSP
The above ticketing was far less expensive than one ticket for MSP-BOS-FCO-BOS-MSP with the Boston stopover or for MSP-FCO round trip with any intermediary US city. It was also cheaper than nested tickets combining MSP-BOS-MSP and BOS-FCO-BOS.
CLE-JFK (one-way ticket)
JFK-DUB-CLE (with likely routing through JFK)
I recently flew the following:
MSP-BOS (layover in Boston for a few days)
BOS-FCO-BOS-MSP
The above ticketing was far less expensive than one ticket for MSP-BOS-FCO-BOS-MSP with the Boston stopover or for MSP-FCO round trip with any intermediary US city. It was also cheaper than nested tickets combining MSP-BOS-MSP and BOS-FCO-BOS.
Dec 12, 2017, 10:59 am
#112
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MEM
Programs: Starbucks Green Card
Posts: 5,431
As others have noted, this is 100% fine, totally allowed and you won't have trouble.
I'd be curious to see what happens here. If you have a single ticket that files into LGA and out of JFK, delta will give you a cab voucher. I'd be interested to see what they'd do in this case, especially given that you're buying J.
I'd be curious to see what happens here. If you have a single ticket that files into LGA and out of JFK, delta will give you a cab voucher. I'd be interested to see what they'd do in this case, especially given that you're buying J.
Dec 12, 2017, 11:08 am
#113
Join Date: Dec 2017
Programs: DL
Posts: 7
As others have noted, this is 100% fine, totally allowed and you won't have trouble.
I'd be curious to see what happens here. If you have a single ticket that files into LGA and out of JFK, delta will give you a cab voucher. I'd be interested to see what they'd do in this case, especially given that you're buying J.
I'd be curious to see what happens here. If you have a single ticket that files into LGA and out of JFK, delta will give you a cab voucher. I'd be interested to see what they'd do in this case, especially given that you're buying J.
Dec 12, 2017, 11:35 am
#114
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
This is specifically covered in the COC. Must be a "connection" and <6 hours. OP is expressly on separate tickets, so no "connection" and thus no bus ticket or car voucher.
What OP proposes to do is not prohibited by the COC. Take a look at Rule 100 for the specific prohibitions.
What OP proposes to do is not prohibited by the COC. Take a look at Rule 100 for the specific prohibitions.
Dec 12, 2017, 1:20 pm
#115
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: DL DM 2MM, Marriott LT Titanium, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 15,198
I wouldn't be concerned about this. I would recommend sticking to CLE-JFK in/out however in case there are any delays. Best to stay on DL also, since even though you are on separate tickets, they will generally provide you irops protection.
Dec 13, 2017, 12:52 pm
#116
Join Date: Dec 2017
Programs: DL
Posts: 7
Thanks all......I can read Rule 100 a couple of different ways
A If used for travel to a destination other than that specified on the ticket.
Also rule 100 is the domestic COC and in my case I am talking about two tickets, one under Domestic COC and the other is International COC
Yes, I know this works and I'm being paranoid....
A If used for travel to a destination other than that specified on the ticket.
Also rule 100 is the domestic COC and in my case I am talking about two tickets, one under Domestic COC and the other is International COC
Yes, I know this works and I'm being paranoid....
Dec 13, 2017, 2:07 pm
#117
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Nashville -Past DL Plat, FO, WN-CP, various hotel programs
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Posts: 11,072
Even if it had "stay requirments" - I really wonder what would happen if enforced.
After all, can an airline (or any other company) mandate where you are and what you do with your life?
They of course can sell a ticket that does not allow a return FLIGHT as a part of a particular ticket for a certain time. That is their right as a business. But, can they tell you what to do with you timeoutside of the actual flight?
After all, can an airline (or any other company) mandate where you are and what you do with your life?
They of course can sell a ticket that does not allow a return FLIGHT as a part of a particular ticket for a certain time. That is their right as a business. But, can they tell you what to do with you timeoutside of the actual flight?
Dec 13, 2017, 5:08 pm
#119
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Nashville -Past DL Plat, FO, WN-CP, various hotel programs
Programs: DL-MM, AA, SW w/companion,HiltonDiamond, Hyatt PLat, IHF Plat, Miles and Points Seeker
Posts: 11,072
That has always been my "backup argument". That shows how insane any real interpretation would be if Delta (or any airline) ever asked. So, I can fly on UA this week, but I can not fly on DL? Or drive?
Years ago, the Saturday night stay was an even bigger financial issue. One-way tickets were ALWAYS expensive. I was do regular trips to a few cities and would buy tickets this way all the time. Had hard copies of course and needed to keep track of which one to use.
Years ago, the Saturday night stay was an even bigger financial issue. One-way tickets were ALWAYS expensive. I was do regular trips to a few cities and would buy tickets this way all the time. Had hard copies of course and needed to keep track of which one to use.
Dec 13, 2017, 6:54 pm
#120
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SEA once more (previously CDG and NRT)
Programs: Former DL DM and UA 1k, now a J class free agent (UA Gold, AS MVP Gold)
Posts: 2,450
As others have mentioned, not a problem as long as you don’t violate fare rules. I nest tickets all the time - once even nested them 4 tickets deep.