Regulation (EC) 261/2004 Delayed flight - Delta Air Lines Definitive Thread
#46
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Not sure if this is the right place for this or not but we were flying FRA to Key West on AF with a DL codeshare flight in ATL to Key West. The DL codeshare flight was unquestionably delayed due to a mechanical issue. We finally arrived in Key West 3 hours and 3 minutes late. Should I file a claim and with whom?
cayohueso already posted about the mx on ATL-EYW: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...echanical.html
#47
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Not sure if this is the right place for this or not but we were flying FRA to Key West on AF with a DL codeshare flight in ATL to Key West. The DL codeshare flight was unquestionably delayed due to a mechanical issue. We finally arrived in Key West 3 hours and 3 minutes late. Should I file a claim and with whom?
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#49
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1. This Regulation shall apply:
(a) to passengers departing from an airport located in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies;
(b) to passengers departing from an airport located in a third country to an airport situated in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies, unless they received benefits or compensation and were given assistance in that third country, if the operating air carrier of the flight concerned is a Community carrier.
Definitions
For the purposes of this Regulation:
(c) "Community carrier" means an air carrier with a valid operating licence granted by a Member State in accordance with the provisions of Council Regulation (EEC) No 2407/92 of 23 July 1992 on licensing of air carriers(5);
#50
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#51
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Not sure if this is the right place for this or not but we were flying FRA to Key West on AF with a DL codeshare flight in ATL to Key West. The DL codeshare flight was unquestionably delayed due to a mechanical issue. We finally arrived in Key West 3 hours and 3 minutes late. Should I file a claim and with whom?
#52
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Are you sure? I was LHR-ATL on Aug 8. That flight (VS booked via DL) was not delayed, but my connecting flight (DL) after that was (b/c of computer glitch) for 27 hours. I was told by many on FT that since the EU flight itself was not delayed, I was not entitled to EU261.
Last edited by Stgermainparis; Oct 20, 2016 at 5:51 pm
#53
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Incorrect. The flight from EU was not delayed. The flight to EYW is on DL a non-EU airline, thus no compensation is due.
#54
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Incorrect. The flight from EU was not delayed. The flight to EYW is on DL a non-EU airline, thus no compensation is due.
Passengers on connecting flights must be compensated when their flight arrives at the final destination at least three hours late
The fact that the original flight was not delayed beyond the limits laid down by EU law does not affect the right to compensation
Case C-11/11
Air France SA v Heinz-Gerke Folkerts and Luz-Tereza Folkerts
#55
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I would ask for AIRHELP's help on this one as they have won a ton of case with connections as of late. The airlines have said connections do not matter but the courts have said they do. Worth a try either way.
#56
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Are you sure? I was LHR-ATL on Aug 8. That flight (VS booked via DL) was not delayed, but my connecting flight (DL) after that was (b/c of computer glitch) for 27 hours. I was told by many on FT that since the EU flight itself was not delayed, I was not entitled to EU261.
(Although I'm not 100% sure which airline you should fill the claim with.)
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Example 1 - Flight to ATL is cancelled. Passenger is reroute on another carrier to ATL in time to make ATL-EYW. ATL-EYW is delayed getting in. The arrival time of EYW flight matters be a use this is the time by which compensation is based for the cancelled EU flight. Even though they made it into ATL and the EYW isn't on a EU carrier the claim is based on the EU-ATL flight, and regardless of the EU-ATL flight having no bearing on arrival into EYW compensation is due.
Example 2 - Flight from EU to ATL operates as scheduled. No cancellation. The EYW is delayed multiple hours. In this case (which is what the OP has) there's no flight that is covered by EU261 that had any issue what so ever. Thus the arrival time into EYW is irrelevant. No compensation under EU261 is due.
#58
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flyerCO, are you a ECJ judge? If not, I fail to see how your personal interpretations of the Regulation 261/2004 are relevant.
Case C-11/11 I mentioned before is the only ECJ judgement I know of that deals with connecting flights. If you know any others please quote them. Since the Regulation 261/2004 doesn't explicitly define how to apply it to connecting flights, case C-11/11 is all we have, anything else would be just our opinions which are of zero help and interest to the parties involved.
Case C-11/11 I mentioned before is the only ECJ judgement I know of that deals with connecting flights. If you know any others please quote them. Since the Regulation 261/2004 doesn't explicitly define how to apply it to connecting flights, case C-11/11 is all we have, anything else would be just our opinions which are of zero help and interest to the parties involved.
#59
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flyerCO, are you a ECJ judge? If not, I fail to see how your personal interpretations of the Regulation 261/2004 are relevant.
Case C-11/11 I mentioned before is the only ECJ judgement I know of that deals with connecting flights. If you know any others please quote them. Since the Regulation 261/2004 doesn't explicitly define how to apply it to connecting flights, case C-11/11 is all we have, anything else would be just our opinions which are of zero help and interest to the parties involved.
Case C-11/11 I mentioned before is the only ECJ judgement I know of that deals with connecting flights. If you know any others please quote them. Since the Regulation 261/2004 doesn't explicitly define how to apply it to connecting flights, case C-11/11 is all we have, anything else would be just our opinions which are of zero help and interest to the parties involved.
Additional information from www.airhelp.com (the aforementioned service that can assist in claims processing):
Connecting flights
Connecting flights are generally the same as direct flights, except for one key difference:
Since connecting flights involve multiple flights and airlines, as well as stops inside and outside of the EU, your eligibility for compensation changes.
Whether you're on a direct or connecting flight, your eligibility for compensation under EC 261/2004 requires that your origin or final destination be located in the EU. Additionally, for connecting flights, your eligibility for compensation due to delay, cancellation, or overbooking depends on the total delay en route to your final destination.*
* The term "final destination" applies to the final destination of your flights with one airline. If your connecting flight is with a different airline, then that flight is perceived as being separate. In that case, each individual flight has its own origin and final destination to which these laws apply.
Connecting flights are generally the same as direct flights, except for one key difference:
Since connecting flights involve multiple flights and airlines, as well as stops inside and outside of the EU, your eligibility for compensation changes.
Whether you're on a direct or connecting flight, your eligibility for compensation under EC 261/2004 requires that your origin or final destination be located in the EU. Additionally, for connecting flights, your eligibility for compensation due to delay, cancellation, or overbooking depends on the total delay en route to your final destination.*
* The term "final destination" applies to the final destination of your flights with one airline. If your connecting flight is with a different airline, then that flight is perceived as being separate. In that case, each individual flight has its own origin and final destination to which these laws apply.
The asterisk basically answers the question presented. Since the OP traveled on two airlines, the Delta flight delay doesn't apply as it is neither departing from, nor arriving in a EU airport.
Interestingly, the OP may have been eligible if they had flown a DL flight from Paris.
Last edited by TTT; Oct 20, 2016 at 8:06 pm
#60
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flyerCO, are you a ECJ judge? If not, I fail to see how your personal interpretations of the Regulation 261/2004 are relevant.
Case C-11/11 I mentioned before is the only ECJ judgement I know of that deals with connecting flights. If you know any others please quote them. Since the Regulation 261/2004 doesn't explicitly define how to apply it to connecting flights, case C-11/11 is all we have, anything else would be just our opinions which are of zero help and interest to the parties involved.
Case C-11/11 I mentioned before is the only ECJ judgement I know of that deals with connecting flights. If you know any others please quote them. Since the Regulation 261/2004 doesn't explicitly define how to apply it to connecting flights, case C-11/11 is all we have, anything else would be just our opinions which are of zero help and interest to the parties involved.
Before this the airline's would say that if the delay to the final destination was the result of the non-covered flight that compensation didn't need to be paid.
Again Example 1 - The flight from EU was cancelled, and person tossed on another airline. Flight gets into ATL with time to catch original flight. Plane then has mechanical issue and is delayed. Under the old standard the airline didn't need to pay out. They would say the delay was the result of an issue on the non-covered flight
Example 2 - same as above but under new standard as issued by ECJ. The arrival time of the final flight (regardless of reason for delay) is used to calculate compensation under EU261.
Notice in the new standard the compensation is still based on the ex-EU flight. They no longer get out of paying a claim by saying the late arrival was the result of the non-covered flight. At no point did the judgement extend EU261 to cover the ATL-EYW flight.
Last edited by flyerCO; Oct 20, 2016 at 9:20 pm